Foreigner staying in Thai house

[manfredtillmann]

25 minutes ago, BlindMagician said:

Same same or not same same, that is the question, whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune....

...LoS TIT, how can we mere mortals cope with such.

 

because we know how to cope with it. or discover how to do it. it's life in thailand.

learn, adapt, enjoy.

if everything was the same everywhere, you might as well stay in your armchair in front of your television at home.

[BlindMagician]

2 minutes ago, manfredtillmann said:

because we know how to cope with it. or discover how to do it. it's life in thailand.

learn, adapt, enjoy.

if everything was the same everywhere, you might as well stay in your armchair in front of your television at home.

Tis true o wise owl.

Least not I own such armchair, nor television, nor home. I want for it now, given the thought of it, by your assumption. The same assumption, it covers all? No chance of variety? Thick air of irony fogs my mind, confusion, delusion, a following lost in the pass. Help, wool line, modern smarties, no matter if works well.

[manfredtillmann]

4 minutes ago, BlindMagician said:

Tis true o wise owl.

Least not I own such armchair, nor television, nor home. I want for it now, given the thought of it, by your assumption. The same assumption, it covers all? No chance of variety? Thick air of irony fogs my mind, confusion, delusion, a following lost in the pass. Help, wool line, modern smarties, no matter if works well.

you must be so much fun to be with, blind mate. but your braille let you down when you when you 'discovered' the assumption.

just finger my post again and revise your reply or just delete all but your first sentence of your last post.

 

[BlindMagician]

31 minutes ago, manfredtillmann said:

you must be so much fun to be with, blind mate. but your braille let you down when you when you 'discovered' the assumption.

just finger my post again and revise your reply or just delete all but your first sentence of your last post.

 

You're way off the mark. My bad though, writing in an odd style. Sorry.

Have another crack, see if you can unpick the meaning, line by line.

[ocddave]

2 hours ago, Kopitiam said:

Most immigration offices don't expect a TM30 form every time you leave and re-enter the country.  But you are required to inform them that you are back in your residence (even you have not moved).  I learned from first hand experience, last year when I tried to extend my permit to stay, the IO could not key in my application.  I was told that I have left and re-entered the country and have not re-confirmed my residence again.  I have to make a copy of my passport and a copy of my new disembarkation card (white card) for them to update my new data.  I was told by the IO that even if I have gone to stay in a hotel and the hotel has registered my stay with them to immigration, I too am expected to re-confirm my residence again.  Its a pain in the butt.

 

So I have to have my wife send in another TM30, every time we leave our home and go on vacation (in-country) while here? Or if I leave the country, even though I have informed them by getting a re-entry permit, I will still have to have her send a TM30 again? I thought we were informing them with our 90 day reporting, how exactly are we to inform them when coming back from a hotel?

[Kopitiam]

5 minutes ago, ocddave said:

 

So I have to have my wife send in another TM30, every time we leave our home and go on vacation (in-country) while here? Or if I leave the country, even though I have informed them by getting a re-entry permit, I will still have to have her send a TM30 again? I thought we were informing them with our 90 day reporting, how exactly are we to inform them when coming back from a hotel?

Address reporting and 90-day reporting are two different things.  One is for your place of abode in Thailand and the other is your presence in Thailand.  As explained to me by the IO, leaving and re-entering the country will flag their database.  I assume the same with the hotel registering (in-country) your stay to immigration.  You do not need to submit another TM30 form if you have not changed your address.  Just copy of your passport and copy of your disembarkation card (white card) with entry stamp and tell them its the same address.  I do not know what is required in the hotel registration scenario.  Its up to the individual whether you want to follow everything to the T.   I travel a couple of times a year, I only reconfirm my address when I go for my extension of stay renewal.

[ocddave]

3 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

Address reporting and 90-day reporting are two different things.  One is for your place of abode in Thailand and the other is your presence in Thailand.  As explained to me by the IO, leaving and re-entering the country will flag their database.  I assume the same with the hotel registering (in-country) your stay to immigration.  You do not need to submit another TM30 form if you have not changed your address.  Just copy of your passport and copy of your disembarkation card (white card) with entry stamp and tell them its the same address.  I do not know what is required in the hotel registration scenario.  Its up to the individual whether you want to follow everything to the T.   I travel a couple of times a year, I only reconfirm my address when I go for my extension of stay renewal.

 

I would love for them to have a simple process laid out for what rules we are required to follow, rather than hoping we don't trip up, or maybe thats what they want us to do. Its almost like they want to create a convoluted process in the hopes people will make mistakes, and hey guess what, now pay a lucrative fine and be hassled. If I had $15,000 to throw away, I might just buy the Elite Access, just to avoid most of this nuttiness, but even they have some of the same hassles (Believe me I wanted this Visa, but wife says too much money). I will say the US process of getting my wife back here isn't much easier, unless I tell her to jump the border in Mexico, that seems to be a welcomed free pass in Sanctuary cities around the states ( I spent $2000 just to watch the US process take too long, and the wifes student visa ran out, and she had to go back to Thailand for work).   Warning!!!! RANT ----> I think it would be best if we just take all political leaders around the world, and hang them from trees, the world would be a better place for it.

[Paul944]

I thought that the address on the arrival card would suffice for the first place you stay? if not I better not put my family in law address there in case they do a cross check. I will stay at several hotels so one of them will do on the arrival card then.

[MalandLee]

8 hours ago, Paul944 said:

I thought that the address on the arrival card would suffice for the first place you stay? if not I better not put my family in law address there in case they do a cross check. I will stay at several hotels so one of them will do on the arrival card then.

Paul I thought that too and put our house address on the arrival card. These are two separate things

1. The arrival card
2. (for me at least) a new form, 2 pages long, where they wanted to know a great deal about me.

I filled them both in correctly.

 

The second part of the equation is that a THAI must register a foreigner in their home - technically this has nothing to do with you. Hotels can register foreigners online, but, private individuals  must use a TM30.

There are countless anomalies and potential pitfalls. For example:

• you rent from a wealthy Thai who is on a world cruise.
• You need a certificate confirming your residence to get "whatever" (e.g.. driving lic)

You could hit a brick wall UNTIL you are confirmed at the address you live - a foreigner cannot confirm their address - only a Thai can do that (Is my current understanding). There are probably "documented" ways around this, but I don't know them (I would ignore "conjecture") 

Listening to those "more in the know" such as Ubonjoe et. al. it would appear - for the moment at least - that there are different interpretations amongst the different provincial immigration centres.

[sumrit]

26 minutes ago, MalandLee said:

Paul I thought that too and put our house address on the arrival card. These are two separate things

1. The arrival card
2. (for me at least) a new form, 2 pages long, where they wanted to know a great deal about me.

I filled them both in correctly.

 

The second part of the equation is that a THAI must register a foreigner in their home - technically this has nothing to do with you. Hotels can register foreigners online, but, private individuals  must use a TM30.

There are countless anomalies and potential pitfalls. For example:

• you rent from a wealthy Thai who is on a world cruise.
• You need a certificate confirming your residence to get "whatever" (e.g.. driving lic)

You could hit a brick wall UNTIL you are confirmed at the address you live - a foreigner cannot confirm their address - only a Thai can do that (Is my current understanding). There are probably "documented" ways around this, but I don't know them (I would ignore "conjecture") 

Listening to those "more in the know" such as Ubonjoe et. al. it would appear - for the moment at least - that there are different interpretations amongst the different provincial immigration centres.

 

It's incorrect that a Thai must register a foreigner staying in the house. Either the owner OR householder must complete the TM30.

 

So, if you rent your house and the owner is unavailable, then the householder (the person named on the rental agreement) can/must complete the TM30. So a foreigner can complete the TM30 if they are also the official tenant, both to register themselves and any other foreigner staying in the property.

 

As for needing proof of address, if your wife owns the house you live in you're possibly entitled to get a yellow Tabien Baan (house book) similar to your wife's blue one. This can be used for proof of address (for a driving licence, bank account, etc) so you no longer need the residence certificate from immigration. 

[MalandLee]

6 minutes ago, sumrit said:

 

It's incorrect that a Thai must register a foreigner staying in the house. Either the owner OR householder must complete the TM30.

 

So, if you rent your house and the owner is unavailable, then the householder (the person named on the rental agreement) can/must complete the TM30. So a foreigner can complete the TM30 if they are also the official tenant, both to register themselves and any other foreigner staying in the property.

Thanks for clearing this up - as I said: "There are probably "documented" ways around this, but I don't know them (I would ignore "conjecture") 

 

 

 

[sumrit]

7 minutes ago, MalandLee said:

Thanks for clearing this up - as I said: "There are probably "documented" ways around this, but I don't know them (I would ignore "conjecture") 

 

 

 

 

Somebody (Ubonjoe?) will probably come up with the actual documentary ruling, I don't have it to hand.

But, as an example, my friend and his wife (both British) rent a house from a Thai who's not available because she lives in the UK. As my friend's wife actually signed the rental agreement on the house she is responsible for completing the TM30 to register herself and my friend as staying there. She had to do this in Pattaya recently when my friend did his last retirement extension. 

[MalandLee]

33 minutes ago, sumrit said:

 

It's incorrect that a Thai must register a foreigner staying in the house. Either the owner OR householder must complete the TM30.

 

So, if you rent your house and the owner is unavailable, then the householder (the person named on the rental agreement) can/must complete the TM30. So a foreigner can complete the TM30 if they are also the official tenant, both to register themselves and any other foreigner staying in the property.

 

4 minutes ago, sumrit said:

 

Somebody (Ubonjoe?) will probably come up with the actual documentary ruling, I don't have it to hand.

But, as an example, my friend and his wife (both British) rent a house from a Thai who's not available because she lives in the UK. As my friend's wife actually signed the rental agreement on the house she is responsible for completing the TM30 to register herself and my friend as staying there. She had to do this in Pattaya recently when my friend did his last retirement extension. 

Thank you for your example - earlier in the thread I mentioned a situation we had last year, where our landlord was sick (and sadly died) - on this occasion my (Thai) wife completed the form, paid the fine and I got the certificate I needed......... Perhaps I should have joined the dots... The situation is not too dissimilar to your British Friends...

 

 

[ubonjoe]

Some baiting and bickering posts have been removed along with other for various reasons.

[sosisbesar]

Does your wife still have to go through this TM30 routine if you have a Yellow Book?

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, MalandLee said:

 

Thank you for your example - earlier in the thread I mentioned a situation we had last year, where our landlord was sick (and sadly died) - on this occasion my (Thai) wife completed the form, paid the fine and I got the certificate I needed......... Perhaps I should have joined the dots... The situation is not too dissimilar to your British Friends...

 

 

The immigration act of 1979 states this.

Quote

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

Possessor means the person renting a residence can be responsible for the report.

The 24 hours is not often enforced since immigration realizes that 24 hours is not always possible.

There are some offices that don't enforce the rule at all for the those staying in a private residence They only enforce it for hotels and etc.

[MalandLee]

19 minutes ago, sosisbesar said:

Does your wife still have to go through this TM30 routine if you have a Yellow Book?

If the question is to me, (OP) I don't have a yellow book... Hence I cannot answer you, hopefully someone can answer for both you and others.

 

If indeed it turns out one does not need to jump through this hoop when one is in possession of a yellow book - I will research the Yellow Book rules and see if I can acquire one... Probably been done to death on here somewhere, one would think?

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, sosisbesar said:

Does your wife still have to go through this TM30 routine if you have a Yellow Book?

Having a yellow house book does not change the requirements for the  TM30.

[MalandLee]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Having a yellow house book does not change the requirements for the  TM30.

 

Thank You

[sosisbesar]

41 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Having a yellow house book does not change the requirements for the  TM30.

That's too bad.

Such a hassle if you travel abroad frequently like I do.

[ubonjoe]

50 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Having a yellow house book does not change the requirements for the  TM30.

 

5 minutes ago, sosisbesar said:

That's too bad.

Such a hassle if you travel abroad frequently like I do.

Whether you have to the report every time you return depends upon the immigration office you make the report to. The majority of offices do not require them unless you change your address.

[sosisbesar]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

 

Whether you have to the report every time you return depends upon the immigration office you make the report to. The majority of offices do not require them unless you change your address.

My wife just called a friend of ours who is an Immigration Officer in Nongkhai and he said that I have to go through the rigmarole every  time I reenter the Kingdom.

This Thai "discretion of the Immigration Officer" is a real pain in the nether parts.

[siam2007]

can we not just agree that there is no other country on this planet that harasses its long-staying foreign residents more than Thailand does nowadays? This is, AFTER you got your actual Visa / permit to stay / extension.

I acknowledge it is difficult to obtain an actual Visa for many countries (which is for some reason - developed and wealthy countries would just be overrun otherwise as it now already happens - wink wink Angela Merkel), but once you have obtained the Visa and entered the country, you will be left in peace as long as you don't do anything bad.

Or are there countries that are an even bigger PITA ? If so, please tell me....

[IMA_FARANG]

Who is the actua; owner of the property?

If it is your wife it is she who needs to report you within 24 hours of your arrival.

this is an old law, but many Thais are not aware of it as it has been poorly enforced for years, but now with more Thai government "secutity" concerns the local police are being told to crack down on the enforcement of this law.

 

 

[IMA_FARANG]

I have lived in and worked in  other countries that had more requirements than Thailand for those that lived and worked there.

Examples were Ethiopia, Turkey, and Saudi  Arabia where you were to have documents carried around on your person at all times if you worked there legally.

i can excuse Ethiopia somewhat as the time I was there martial law was in effect for much of the country.

When I worked in Saudi Arabia you were required to carry work papers aeound with you at all times.

Took 6 months to get them after you entered Saudi.

In Turkey each block had an official living on your residntial block that was responsible for registration of forirgners living on that residential street block.

Normally that was your landlords  reponsibility, but you were given a registration card with your regidtration number which you had to have in your posession if stopped and questioned.

So no, Thailand is not the most restrictive place i have ever lived in my life.

That is the reason I still carry my passport on my person today....old habits learned from such places in my past.

 

 

 

[sosisbesar]

Just out of curiosity, Ima_Farang, where you legally married to and living with an Ethiopian/Turk/Saudi in her house (that was actually paid for by you)?

Different situations, different settings, methinks.

'No can compare,' my wife would say.