British expat killed in crash

[impulse]

15 minutes ago, bearpolar said:

People who don't wear helmet are selfish and do not care about the impact of their brains splatering everywhere.

 

People who only care about themselves deserve no sympathy.  With a helmet, the driver would be in trouble but not for manslaughter and nobody would of had to pickup his brains everywhere and pay for his cremation.

 

If you want people to respect you and have sympathy for your misfortune, participate in society by following it's rules otherwise you arent entitled to the privileges of society.

 

So, where, exactly would you draw the line?

 

At the decision to ride a scooter, which is 2000-4000% more dangerous per km than riding in a 4 wheeler, or at the decision not to wear a helmet, which increases your chances of death by about 40%?

 

If you're going to select a means of transport that's 20-40x as dangerous as your other choice, I'd suggest you've lost the moral high ground to pass judgment on others who choose to be slightly less safe.

 

For me, it's to each his own- as long as they aren't imposing their choices on me.

[mcfish]

Its an area that has far spreading tentacles. One of the reasons no helmunt its outlawed in the west is the tax burden on the health care system. Severe head injury and brain trauma can run into hundreds of thousands of dollars per person and in Thailand the burden will passed to the extended family to pay and although the rider could care less the family may be drained of all their resources since generally insurance does not cover riders in Asia

 

[Felt 35]

34 minutes ago, bearpolar said:

People who don't wear helmet are selfish and do not care about the impact of their brains splatering everywhere.

 

People who only care about themselves deserve no sympathy.  With a helmet, the driver would be in trouble but not for manslaughter and nobody would of had to pickup his brains everywhere and pay for his cremation.

 

If you want people to respect you and have sympathy for your misfortune, participate in society by following it's rules otherwise you arent entitled to the privileges of society.

 

care about themselves only  eh.... that`s about 70 million people

Edited September 12, 2016 by Felt 35

[richard_smith237]

9 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

As a rider who spent many decades both with & without a helmet (depending on circumstances) I must say I am constantly amazed at how many selfish people there are who try to impose their own will on my freedom.

 

 

I find it quite deplorable that those who prefer not to wear a helmet do so without any regard for anyone else and do so claiming its their right or their freedom to do so. 

 

IF you are involved in an RTA (regardless of fault) the outcome is hugely dependent of the level of protection the Rider wears.  

This outcome impacts more than just the Rider... it impacts his family, his friends, his work colleagues, those who attend the scene of the accident.... It also has a huge impact whoever was also involved in the accident. 

 

IF involved in an accident with a helmet-less motorcycle rider who is purely at fault, who smacks his head and becomes braindead or is killed, while the car driver may be clear of any blame they would never forget and forever feel terrible. 

IF the accident was the car drivers fault it would be worse. 

IF however a rider is wearing a helmet and other protection the stress and emotional trauma of dealing with such events would be vastly minimised for all other parties involved, particularly family and closes ones. 

 

It this intention to minimise any potential impact on others by wearing a helmet and protective clothing that separates the selfish from the more considerate. 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by metisdead
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording.

[oldlakey]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Well you may have just identified the problem.

 

The one thing all old riders who have not laid it down have in common is they use intelligence when they ride.

 

For that reason, I don't recommend riding is for everyone.

No you are wrong in this case according to the facts as they are

The problem is you cant and never will be able to legislate for stupidity

I dont deny that a lack of helmet might have contributed to the fatal outcome

That does not change the fact that he would still be alive if the pratt in the truck had not cut him off

The blame should be laid firmly at the truck drivers door nowhere else

End of chat as far as I am concerned

[oldlakey]

2 hours ago, Alwyn said:

What a fine person you are.

I would replace fine with sick because I believe a person of such low intelligence would miss the sarcasm

and actually thing they were a fine person

[bearpolar]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

I find it quite deplorable that those who prefer not to wear a helmet do so without any regard for anyone else and do so claiming its their right or their freedom to do so. 

 

IF you are involved in an RTA (regardless of fault) the outcome is hugely dependent of the level of protection the Rider wears.  

This outcome impacts more than just the Rider... it impacts his family, his friends, his work colleagues, those who attend the scene of the accident.... It also has a huge impact whoever was also involved in the accident. 

 

IF involved in an accident with a helmet-less motorcycle rider who is purely at fault, who smacks his head and becomes braindead or is killed, while the car driver may be clear of any blame they would never forget and forever feel terrible. 

IF the accident was the car drivers fault it would be worse. 

IF however a rider is wearing a helmet and other protection the stress and emotional trauma of dealing with such events would be vastly minimised for all other parties involved, particularly family and closes ones. 

 

It this intention to minimise any potential impact on others by wearing a helmet and protective clothing that separates the selfish from the more considerate. 

 

 

 

 

Very well said, let's not forget also that there is something called the law ,which is something that you will need to move out of society(prison or war ridden craphole)if you don't wish to follow it, that states that it is NOT your choice.

[balo]

5 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

The one thing all old riders who have not laid it down have in common is they use intelligence when they ride.

 

For that reason, I don't recommend riding is for everyone.

 

Using your intelligence will not help much when someone crashes into you from behind . You can try to ride your bike as safe and intelligent as you wish but in Thailand your life is at risk every time. 

  

Edited September 12, 2016 by balo

[Lokie]

1 hour ago, balo said:

 

Using your intelligence will not help much when someone crashes into you from behind . You can try to ride your bike as safe and intelligent as you wish but in Thailand your life is at risk every time. 

  

 

In Thailand your life is at risk in what ever you do, or I should say the risk factor rises X xxx, not if but when you have some sort of accident (whether your fault or not) so to say riding a bike is a risk every time is true anywhere in the world as is getting out of bed in the morning and taking a dump... Maybe you should not live in Thailand if risk bothers you, me somethings I enjoy involve risk, you take your chances and apply as much risk assessment as possible, helmet or not, if the Pick up driver cut across the bike rider then a T bone RTA occurs it will be serious, yes better chance of survival wearing an helmet but who's to say? speed may have been a major part also, who knows. Hey flying can be dangerous too, how many take a plane over here... Oooh thats Risky??

 

R I P to the poor bloke, thats all that really matters here.

[gk10002000]

Don't have all the details.  not wearing a helmet is just flirting with disaster.  One has to drive defensively in Thailand and anywhere else for that matter.  Maybe the truck did technically cut him off, but how fast was the biker going such that he couldn't see the truck pulling out and therefore left himself with no time to react?  was he drunk?  A blood alcohol test would be nice assuming one can do that post mortem.

[Xircal]

I wonder if it's the same guy? http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/guns-charges-follow-raid-on-port-melbourne-bikie-clubhouse-20110825-1jd3h.html

 

It's maybe just a coincidence that they both have the same name and their ages fit. The guy arrested in the gun incident was 39 years old in 2011 and the victim of the traffic accident was 44 yrs old.

[ClutchClark]

3 hours ago, balo said:

 

Using your intelligence will not help much when someone crashes into you from behind . You can try to ride your bike as safe and intelligent as you wish but in Thailand your life is at risk every time. 

  

 

Do you ride?

 

I get the feeling the answer is "No" or you would know that riding requires constant situational awareness from ALL directions.

 

I don't really understand the point of your posts on this thread. 

 

Yes, riding a motorcycle is not without risk. Most things in life have some level of risk. Its up to each of us to choose pursuits within our own comfortable risk level. Its not any of your business the risk someone else chooses any more than its my business the risk you choose.

 

Whether a rider chooses to wear a helmet is up to that rider. 

 

This rider accepted the risk and for all we know he preferred death over being a parapalegic? Who knows? 

[ClutchClark]

6 hours ago, oldlakey said:

No you are wrong in this case according to the facts as they are

The problem is you cant and never will be able to legislate for stupidity

I dont deny that a lack of helmet might have contributed to the fatal outcome

That does not change the fact that he would still be alive if the pratt in the truck had not cut him off

The blame should be laid firmly at the truck drivers door nowhere else

End of chat as far as I am concerned

 

What are you getting on about?

 

Your response has nothing to do with what my post discussed. 

 

Maybe you quoted the wrong post?

 

I never suggested anything about the Thai driver or blame at all.

 

[Carl64]

Not only ALWAYS wear a helmet. But wear a good one. I purchased mine in Aus and brought it over. I coudn't find a decent one any where in CM.

[lvr181]

Been riding motorbikes (and have raced them) for years. Have fallen off from time to time but never been riding without a helmet!

 

RIP Mr MacPherson. And may all other motorcyclists learn from this. But I doubt it, unfortunately. 

 

And it doesn't matter who caused the collision because at the end of the day, you, the motorcyclist are at greatest risk.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by lvr181
Additional text

[balo]

7 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

Whether a rider chooses to wear a helmet is up to that rider.

 

Really , so you think the law should not have anything to say here? Is that why you moved to Thailand , so you can do whatever you want without consequences ?  

Yes I do care about safety , no I do not ride bikes , I own a car , I try to drive as safe as I can , and I am used to Thai traffic. I always pay attention to bikes around me an no accidents yet after 5 years , living in Bangkok and Pattaya. 

 

But I see lot of idiots without helmets , speeding , idiot expats having a few beers in the bar before he try to ride his bike home.

So I should not care and its up to the rider to behave like an idiot ?   I know this is Thailand but still  I will not accept it  How hard is it to at least wear a real helmet ? And I'm talking about a real one not a cheap Big C helmet! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, balo said:

 

Really , so you think the law should not have anything to say here? Is that why you moved to Thailand , so you can do whatever you want without consequences ?  

Yes I do care about safety , no I do not ride bikes , I own a car , I try to drive as safe as I can , and I am used to Thai traffic. I always pay attention to bikes around me an no accidents yet after 5 years , living in Bangkok and Pattaya. 

 

But I see lot of idiots without helmets , speeding , idiot expats having a few beers in the bar before he try to ride his bike home.

So I should not care and its up to the rider to behave like an idiot ?   I know this is Thailand but still  I will not accept it  How hard is it to at least wear a real helmet ? And I'm talking about a real one not a cheap Big C helmet!

 

It is up to law enforcement to act on people wearing helmets yes or no, not to you or anybody else moralising here.

[bearpolar]

34 minutes ago, stevenl said:

It is up to law enforcement to act on people wearing helmets yes or no, not to you or anybody else moralising here.

There's tons of helmet checkpoints and advertisements

 

This makes it not a personal choice but a crime to not wear one.

 

 

[oldlakey]

7 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

What are you getting on about?

 

Your response has nothing to do with what my post discussed. 

 

Maybe you quoted the wrong post?

 

I never suggested anything about the Thai driver or blame at all.

 

OK I will explain your intelligence, riding skills and experience count for nothing when some other irresponsible road user decides he wants to be exactly where you are

Thats why I mentioned the other driver, perhaps you had not noticed there was one involved

Your post might have had some validity if this thread was about a general overview of the dangers of road use 

This threads topic is about a fatal accident nothing else please try and keep up with the majority

[balo]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

It is up to law enforcement to act on people wearing helmets yes or no, not to you or anybody else moralising here.

 

This is a typical answer from a bike rider.  Plenty of check points around , but in the end it is you who are responsible to wear a helmet and to make sure you will not get involved in an accident. If you have a few drinks in the bar and then drive or ride your bike home you are not a responsible person and could end up killing the good riders on the road. It happens every week , with both locals and foreigners

Edited September 13, 2016 by balo

[oldlakey]

4 hours ago, lvr181 said:

Been riding motorbikes (and have raced them) for years. Have fallen off from time to time but never been riding without a helmet!

 

RIP Mr MacPherson. And may all other motorcyclists learn from this. But I doubt it, unfortunately. 

 

And it doesn't matter who caused the collision because at the end of the day, you, the motorcyclist are at greatest risk.

 

 

I disagree most strongly with a small part of your post, you are really not thinking that part through

It DOES matter who caused the accident, and not just to the immediate family 

Until these people are dealt with in an appropriate manner the carnage will continue unabated I am afraid

I think life is more precious than that

I do understand by making this statement its akin to pissing into the wind

[stevenl]

25 minutes ago, balo said:

 

This is a typical answer from a bike rider.  Plenty of check points around , but in the end it is you who are responsible to wear a helmet and to make sure you will not get involved in an accident. If you have a few drinks in the bar and then drive or ride your bike home you are not a responsible person and could end up killing the good riders on the road. It happens every week , with both locals and foreigners

I agree with you, it is one's own responsibility. My post was a reply to your earlier post in which you wrote " So I should not care and its up to the rider to behave like an idiot ? ". And my answer to that was: yes, it is not up to you to judge somebody else for not wearing a helmet.

[balo]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I agree with you, it is one's own responsibility. My post was a reply to your earlier post in which you wrote " So I should not care and its up to the rider to behave like an idiot ? ". And my answer to that was: yes, it is not up to you to judge somebody else for not wearing a helmet.

 

I am not judging , I have an opinion about it , yes I can call them idiots on the road and I don't feel bad about that because it's the truth.

Edited September 13, 2016 by balo

[Alwyn]

19 hours ago, bearpolar said:

People who don't wear helmet are selfish and do not care about the impact of their brains splatering everywhere.

 

People who only care about themselves deserve no sympathy.  With a helmet, the driver would be in trouble but not for manslaughter and nobody would of had to pickup his brains everywhere and pay for his cremation.

 

If you want people to respect you and have sympathy for your misfortune, participate in society by following it's rules otherwise you arent entitled to the privileges of society.

I've already said this but the helmets in Thailand are more dangerous than not having one. 350 baht runnish that will cave into your head, peeks that will help break your neck..

[bearpolar]

18 hours ago, Alwyn said:

I've already said this but the helmets in Thailand are more dangerous than not having one. 350 baht runnish that will cave into your head, peeks that will help break your neck..

 

Yet i know people alive today  because of those cheap 300b helmets and also because of the 1500b-3000b helmets.

 

 

 

[lvr181]

21 hours ago, oldlakey said:

I disagree most strongly with a small part of your post, you are really not thinking that part through

It DOES matter who caused the accident, and not just to the immediate family 

Until these people are dealt with in an appropriate manner the carnage will continue unabated I am afraid

I think life is more precious than that

I do understand by making this statement its akin to pissing into the wind

 I am not excusing the person who caused the collision (it is NOT an accident) just saying it does not matter what the cause of the collision is. Perhaps I should have chosen my words differently.

 

And to those who say it is the responsibility of the rider to wear one - just hope you are able to get a bed in a hospital that is not already dealing with those who cannot or will not show no responsibility to others (let alone themselves, family and friends) by their carelessness. 

[Alwyn]

9 hours ago, bearpolar said:

 

Yet i know people alive today  because of those cheap 300b helmets and also because of the 1500b-3000b helmets.

 

 

 

yet i don't personally know one person who has died in a bike accident in Thailand, and I was there 15 years. You must be a proper Jonah. My best mate was killed on his motorbike in a hit & run and he was fully protected with a kite marked BS 6588 standard crash helmet, full leather with back protector and proper foot wear. He died from the shock of his leg being ripped off by a car hitting him  doing 90mph. and smashing him into the central reservation barrier. So I find your anecdotal thing above, well, anecdotal.

[ClutchClark]

On September 12, 2016 at 8:21 AM, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

I find it quite deplorable that those who prefer not to wear a helmet do so without any regard for anyone else and do so claiming its their right or their freedom to do so. 

 

IF you are involved in an RTA (regardless of fault) the outcome is hugely dependent of the level of protection the Rider wears.  

This outcome impacts more than just the Rider... it impacts his family, his friends, his work colleagues, those who attend the scene of the accident.... It also has a huge impact whoever was also involved in the accident. 

 

IF involved in an accident with a helmet-less motorcycle rider who is purely at fault, who smacks his head and becomes braindead or is killed, while the car driver may be clear of any blame they would never forget and forever feel terrible. 

IF the accident was the car drivers fault it would be worse. 

IF however a rider is wearing a helmet and other protection the stress and emotional trauma of dealing with such events would be vastly minimised for all other parties involved, particularly family and closes ones. 

 

It this intention to minimise any potential impact on others by wearing a helmet and protective clothing that separates the selfish from the more considerate. 

 

 

 

 

I find it deplorable that some drivers on public roads do not follow the Traffic Laws. 

 

If I am following the traffic laws in a jurisdiction that does not require a helmet then it is my personal choice and the only reason I might wind up dead or in a hospital bed is because of the actions of the driver who ignored the Traffic Laws.

 

If you follow the Rules of the Road then I do not need a helmet.

[richard_smith237]

40 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I find it deplorable that some drivers on public roads do not follow the Traffic Laws. 

 

If I am following the traffic laws in a jurisdiction that does not require a helmet then it is my personal choice and the only reason I might wind up dead or in a hospital bed is because of the actions of the driver who ignored the Traffic Laws.

 

If you follow the Rules of the Road then I do not need a helmet.

 

If you wouldn't mind I'd like to rephrase your final statement... 

 

"If EVERYONE followed the Rules of the Road, IF all Vehicles were perfectly maintained, IF people didn't drive while tired, IF animals didn't dart across the Road, IF weather conditions were always perfect - you MAY not require a helmet"

 

We live in a far from Perfect society, and while it may be difficult for many to swallow reality... we (all of us) are not the Perfect Road Users we think we are... No one is, everyone has momentary distractions from time to time... Even the most perfect of Drivers & Riders are fallible, this is simply human nature. 

 

Someone who believes they are infallible is taking their first step towards having an accident... 

[bearpolar]

3 hours ago, Alwyn said:

yet i don't personally know one person who has died in a bike accident in Thailand, and I was there 15 years. You must be a proper Jonah. My best mate was killed on his motorbike in a hit & run and he was fully protected with a kite marked BS 6588 standard crash helmet, full leather with back protector and proper foot wear. He died from the shock of his leg being ripped off by a car hitting him  doing 90mph. and smashing him into the central reservation barrier. So I find your anecdotal thing above, well, anecdotal.

 

So not only are you advocating people to go against the law and put their lives in dangers, you are also a pathological liar.

 

The quality of expats this place attracts...