How to "soundproofing" a Condo?

[2046]

Hi there,
I'm just about to starting a complete renovation of a View Talay condominium (48m2 unit).
Since the walls of condo units (between the massive static concrete pillars which carry the weight of the building) are known to be rather flimsy and noise transmission to/from neighbour units is a common problem, I'm considering installing some sort of "soundproofing" or "noise insulation" on the walls.
Because the condo is quite small, the construction/layer should be as thin as possible (about 5 to 8cm max.) . Most of constructions found on internet (e.g. strut-walls with soundclips, solid double-brick walls, etc.) are unfortunately too "room-consuming" and not suitable for already small apartments. One interesting thing I saw in the web is the installation of recycled rubber mats, about 3cm in thickness that can be "glued" on the existing wall. But I have no idea if this British product (Acousticel M20AD) is sold/used here in Thailand.
Question:
Has anyone done such insulation work which effectively reduces the transmission of noise (as TV, Music, loud talking) or can anyone provide some links of renovation/construction companies having experience in this field (greater Pattaya area)?

Thanks in advance for any help and hints!

[Don Chance]

You can't do that much, ear plugs maybe. One thing will help is resilient channeling.

 

 

I would not recommend any insulation will just cause mould problems.

[KittenKong]

On 12/09/2016 at 5:52 PM, 2046 said:

Because the condo is quite small, the construction/layer should be as thin as possible (about 5 to 8cm max.) . Most of constructions found on internet (e.g. strut-walls with soundclips, solid double-brick walls, etc.) are unfortunately too "room-consuming" and not suitable for already small apartments. One interesting thing I saw in the web is the installation of recycled rubber mats, about 3cm in thickness that can be "glued" on the existing wall. But I have no idea if this British product (Acousticel M20AD) is sold/used here in Thailand.
Question:
Has anyone done such insulation work which effectively reduces the transmission of noise (as TV, Music, loud talking) or can anyone provide some links of renovation/construction companies having experience in this field (greater Pattaya area)?

 

Noise seems to be something that many people in Thailand dont notice or dont care about. I think they are bonkers.

 

If you want to reduce noise from neighbours on either side of you then I think that Green Glue and drywall (plasterboard) would give you a fair result without using up too much space. Green Glue works in a similar way to your rubber mat but is easier to apply. Mass loaded vinyl is mentioned in the video and is like your rubber mat.

 

 

I've never seen Green Glue in shops here but there is a Thai distributor which you can easily find online. Standard drywall can be used and installation is very simple, so easily within the capabilities of local builders. However you must ensure that they do it properly and don't cut corners. All in all it should be quite cheap, quite quick and quite easy.

 

Noise coming from concrete ceilings is a very different matter.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by KittenKong

[2046]

Don Chance and KittenKong, thanks a lot for the suggestions.

 

Constructional noise control seems to be really a difficult task here; the risk of having mould problems with tropical humidity, or even some bugs like ants (or termites?) nestling in the formed cavities/hollow spots also came to my mind.

And the other aspect is the local incapability to get a job done 100% reliable. Some hidden tiny but hard unwanted "bridges" allowing the sound to be transmitted (on a wall/ceiling supposed to be completely suspended/decoupled from hard shell) could easily destroy/diminish the desired noise controlling effect.

 

Additionally, it's normally not feasable to have a wall completely and evenly covered by an additional plasterboard or similar, but the structure is going to be interrupted by the installation of wallplugs,plumbing or electrical installation (or even kitchen cabinets).

 

I'll check out the Green Glue option anyhow. Thanks!

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

think putting in the metal batons and putting up Sheetrock would be worth a go. only would leave a few cm cavity. would need hammer drill plugs in to fit the batons properly. use lots of stud adhesive which builders try to avoid.

Edited September 14, 2016 by williamgeorgeallen

[RBOP]

There are many sound proofing specialist companies in Thailand. There is a store on Suhkumvit in Pattaya that sell sound proof windows and doors and probably can recommend something for wall and ceiling. Cant remember their name. I had http://www.crystalview.co.th/en/ do my condo and very happy. 

[manfredtillmann]

unless you are prepared to sacrifice 10%  of your living area's volume you might as well give up right now if you desire a 80% success.

a lot cheaper to go deaf.

 

[bark]

I put tape over my wife's  mouth!

now happy

[peterb17]

Would be interested to know which View Talay? 

 

Neverhad a problem in View Talay 2 - maybe the newer ones are not built so well.

 

otherwise have not got a clue about sound proofing - layer of egg boxes ?

 

regards 

[wpcoe]

17 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Noise seems to be something that many people in Thailand dont notice or dont care about. I think they are bonkers.

 

If you want to reduce noise from neighbours on either side of you then I think that Green Glue and drywall (plasterboard) would give you a fair result without using up too much space. Green Glue works in a similar way to your rubber mat but is easier to apply. Mass loaded vinyl is mentioned in the video and is like your rubber mat.

 

 

I've never seen Green Glue in shops here but there is a Thai distributor which you can easily find online. Standard drywall can be used and installation is very simple, so easily within the capabilities of local builders. However you must ensure that they do it properly and don't cut corners. All in all it should be quite cheap, quite quick and quite easy.

 

Noise coming from concrete ceilings is a very different matter.

 

 

In the video I noticed that they still use drywall screws to attach the glued panel.  Then I realized they were screwing into the first drywall layer.  How would you fasten the Green Glue'd sheet to a typical condo rendered brick wall?

 

I am planning a renovation in about two months of a condo unit I just bought, but is occupied until then.  If there were something simple -- and as thin! -- as gluing a single sheet of drywall/gypsum board, I'd definitely be interested.

[2046]

2 hours ago, peterb17 said:

Would be interested to know which View Talay? 

 

Neverhad a problem in View Talay 2 - maybe the newer ones are not built so well.

 

otherwise have not got a clue about sound proofing - layer of egg boxes ?

 

regards 

VT7

At the moment it's not possible to figure out how bad the problem actually is in the condo to be renovated, since neighbors are not living here right now.

But I was renting (long term) another unit in VT7 and that very room was really bad.

The landlord fitted two adjacent (mirrored array) units with same stuff so I could also figure out where the noise was coming from the other side. One source was a kind of wire rack (often seen in Spain) to allow drip-drying dishes after cleaning. This rack was drilled onto the (kitchen) party wall, and when the neighbor would do his work in the kitchen, the nose level was almost as loud as doing the dish washing in our room.

And frequent changes of (partly) reckless short term tenants (many from RU) coming usually home after midnight to turn on the TV full volume was a rather common thing to keep us awake...

 

Btw, egg boxes might be decorative, but don't really help  ?

[tifino]

 

Is aerosol Expanding Foam an option, for your style of walls/ceilings?

[2046]

3 minutes ago, tifino said:

 

Is aerosol Expanding Foam an option, for your style of walls/ceilings?

Thanks!

...not sure, I think this material is rather used e.g. for thermal insulation under roofs etc., or special mounting foam to fix window- and door-frames to the brick/concrete wall?

But in this context;

it's probably wise to carefully inspect the empty shell (condo) unit for gaps and cracks in the concrete/brick work that definitely have to be sealed with some sort of foam or bitumen-like sealant (before e.g. the usual suspended plasterboard ceiling is installed).

 

 

[tifino]

 and are you redoing all the wiring and plumbing? inside or outside of the walls?

my thinking that the usual practice of external wiring etc makes the wall chambers fairly clear of obstacles

[Autonuaq]

whatever you do with the same effort you also can increase the fire rating and the Thermo isolation, so you not only reduce the sound you also increase the fire safety and reduce the air conditioning costs

 

 

Good luck

[2046]

Yes, that's the plan, to exchange all the wiring and plumbing (now or never, labor is cheap here).

I didn't make my choice of contractor yet, but what I've seen here in VT7 (in other rooms under construction), they local way of doing it is to put the wires inside the wall. I even saw on the unit beside me that workers grooved a ferroconcrete pillar for the el.wires and respective wall socket ?.

Edited September 14, 2016 by 2046

[aussiandrew]

In your emply appartment what is the ceiling height because if you have adequately clearance you can have spray in foam that will have the biggest affect in reducing the future noise. Then install a suspend ceiling also with fibro glass battes to further deaden the sounds. Good luck.

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, wpcoe said:

In the video I noticed that they still use drywall screws to attach the glued panel.  Then I realized they were screwing into the first drywall layer.  How would you fasten the Green Glue'd sheet to a typical condo rendered brick wall?

 

As far as I know that's the function of the glue. Check with the distributor. Or you could just screw the drywall to the rendered brick using plugs, or put a very thin wooden or metallic framework up first.

[KittenKong]

10 hours ago, 2046 said:

Additionally, it's normally not feasable to have a wall completely and evenly covered by an additional plasterboard or similar, but the structure is going to be interrupted by the installation of wallplugs,plumbing or electrical installation (or even kitchen cabinets).

 

Ideally you would remove the cupboards etc., install the drywall with holes to accommodate your sockets and plumbing, then rehang the cupboards. Of course it all rather depends on how your condo is laid out but this would be very easy to do in mine.

[KittenKong]

6 hours ago, RBOP said:

There are many sound proofing specialist companies in Thailand. There is a store on Suhkumvit in Pattaya that sell sound proof windows and doors and probably can recommend something for wall and ceiling. Cant remember their name. I had http://www.crystalview.co.th/en/ do my condo and very happy. 

 

I've found it very hard to find companies here who know anything at all about sound insulation in the domestic environment. I did find a couple that knew about insulation in factories, but that wasnt really much use. The only door place I know of in Pattaya is Scorpion. Where exactly is the place on Sukumvit in Pattaya?

 

Do you have more details about what crystalview did for you and what it cost? I think that many people might be interested in this as there is huge shortage of any real information.

[KittenKong]

33 minutes ago, aussiandrew said:

In your emply appartment what is the ceiling height because if you have adequately clearance you can have spray in foam that will have the biggest affect in reducing the future noise. Then install a suspend ceiling also with fibro glass battes to further deaden the sounds. Good luck.

 

Insulating the ceiling is not going to help much with noise coming from neighbours on either side. Also sprayed foam is not a very good sound insulator, though it is better than nothing.

 

For concrete ceilings it's best to put something solid onto the concrete (you can use green glue and drywall), then some baffle material, and then to use special resilient spring hangars for the suspended ceiling. And then use a second layer of drywall and green glue on the suspended ceiling. That should be pretty effective. Density and decoupling.

[Dakhar]

Adhesive carpet squares, are commonly used for make shift sound rooms for testing hearing. You can also hang rugs on walls to help some as well.

 

Id look into the above mentioned windows as well

[Mangostin]

Foam = Really cheap, easy to find, quick and effective, then plasterwood on top or whatever else makes you happy.

If you do it by yourself, with the money you save you could do another apartment, or delegate someone else if you want to soundproof their apartment too with your money (you never know, they might have the same problem at home).

 

[Don Chance]

You should check with the condo board there are good reason not to insulate walls and ceiling in a condo: mold. You might very well cause a mold problem in the unit above yours.

One problem is if expats leave the place for months with no aircon or fans running and windows shut. Buildings need to breath especially in humid climates. You can do some investigation yourself, i found so many moldy buildings in Phuket.  Once it gets moldy you can say goodbye to your investment. It is about the worst problem to have.

 

Foam is usually some toxic polyurethane and if you have a small fire you will be dead from fumes in a very short time.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Don Chance

[JRinPDX]

Attach the drywall to every other stud,  then attach the drywall to the adjacent room to the other studs.. that way you don't have studs transmitting sounds directly from one drywall sheet to the other room's drywall.   Requires extra studs, ideally offset by a bit to create an air gap between them and the side that's unattached.    I'd seen this several years ago, maybe a Google search would turn up alternatives.

[jacko45k]

I have seen the egg box type panels in HomePro on Sukhumvit, but as you are aware they will reduce the internal space of your already small unit. Perhaps you can just do the 2 shared walls.

[berniept]

From original post: " One interesting thing I saw in the web is the installation of recycled rubber mats, about 3cm in thickness that can be "glued" on the existing wall. But I have no idea if this British product (Acousticel M20AD) is sold/used here in Thailand. "

 

There is a similar product from the USA named Auralex.  There is a Thai distributor for it (url follows), and auralex.com has some good information about using this product. Good luck with your soundproofing.

 

http://www.hifipart.com/cart/category.asp?catid=51&subcatid=85

[wpcoe]

On 9/14/2016 at 5:26 PM, wpcoe said:

 

In the video I noticed that they still use drywall screws to attach the glued panel.  Then I realized they were screwing into the first drywall layer.  How would you fasten the Green Glue'd sheet to a typical condo rendered brick wall?

 

On 9/14/2016 at 9:15 PM, KittenKong said:

 

As far as I know that's the function of the glue. Check with the distributor. Or you could just screw the drywall to the rendered brick using plugs, or put a very thin wooden or metallic framework up first.

 

FYI, I found this on the Green Glue web site:

 

Very simply, when used between two rigid layers of material, typically drywall, the compound works to isolate the noise traveling from one room to the other.  Despite the Green Glue name, our Noiseproofing Compound is NOT a permanent adhesive.

[KittenKong]

^^^ Good to know. In the OP's case then it looks like he might need to use some sort of stud system for fixing the first layer of drywall to the brick wall.

 

Or I wonder if this product exists here:

 

 

This is plasterboard with a layer of foam attached to it. You can attach that to the existing wall using adhesive plaster http://www.gyproc.ae/products/gyproc-plasterboard-accessories/gyproc-plasterboard-adhesive which you just mix up with water like regular plaster, and could then attach a second layer of plasterboard with green glue and screws. You could use that adhesive to attach a first layer of regular plasterboard, without any foam backing, but that might not allow enough depth for the screws to bite.

[wpcoe]

Originally I was attracted to the thinness of using Green Glue:  two 3/8" sheets of sheetrock/gypsum/drywall would only be 3/4" taken from the interior space.  But if you need to put in 3"x1" furring strips or channels first to attach the first layer, it's slightly less attractive.  I'm a little skeptical about an adhesive holding up two layers of sheetrock/gypsum/drywall + Green Glue, too, but apparently it's doable and safe?

 

It's all still worth considering.  Just not as appealing (and simple) as it seemed at first blush.