Philippine president wants US forces out of restive south

[markusangel]

If you are a high caliber financial analyst, I would believe you.


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[metisdead]

An inflammatory baiting post has been removed. 

[LawrenceChee]

It was not too Long ago in another thread I mentioned that Duerte will abandon this Hague ruling and head to China for deals

At that time , the usual band of China bashers came out and vilified China and mentioned its was next to impossible and that Philippines will stick to its western ally namely USA and be the pivot of balance

One poster went as far as to call all kind of names against Asian being pragmatic and practical

Now that everything I have mentioned is becoming reality , for those spooks they should start reading about Micronesia and see what that has to do with China's ambition of its maritime Silk Road

Probably enough to give some ulcers and wish the death maker would come sooner than for them to witness it


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[LawrenceChee]

Within ASEAN , China is focusing on the these countries for influence

Myanmar
Malaysia
Thailand
Philippines
Laos
Cambodia
Indonesia
Brunei

Singapore - Is in the cold books for now but will come back soon

Vietnam - China is not heading there with ancient hostilities still fresh

So you can see the Philippines is taking a good risk of not wanting to be left behind

I can see the spooks crying as the Chinese descends into Philippines ; one of the major deal signed was a lift of the travel ban and 1 million Chinese expected by 2017


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[ilostmypassword]

41 minutes ago, LawrenceChee said:

Within ASEAN , China is focusing on the these countries for influence

Myanmar
Malaysia
Thailand
Philippines
Laos
Cambodia
Indonesia
Brunei

Singapore - Is in the cold books for now but will come back soon

Vietnam - China is not heading there with ancient hostilities still fresh

So you can see the Philippines is taking a good risk of not wanting to be left behind

I can see the spooks crying as the Chinese descends into Philippines ; one of the major deal signed was a lift of the travel ban and 1 million Chinese expected by 2017


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I think China will find that dealing with a volatile thug won't ultimately work out. And I say this without holding any brief for the U.S. position in the Philippines. I think if Duterte wants the U.S. out, it should go. What's more, the USA should be doing more of what China is doing. Not invading foreign nations but doing much more with economic aid.

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

It was not too Long ago in another thread I mentioned that Duerte will abandon this Hague ruling and head to China for deals

At that time , the usual band of
China bashers came out and vilified China and mentioned its was next to impossible and that Philippines will stick to its western ally namely USA and be the pivot of balance

One poster went as far as to call all kind of names against Asian being pragmatic and practical

Now that everything I have mentioned is becoming reality , for those spooks they should start reading about Micronesia and see what that has to do with China's ambition of its maritime Silk Road

Probably enough to give some ulcers and wish the death maker would come sooner than for them to witness it


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It's not up to Duarte, as has been verified by him. He said he won't go against their own laws. Luckily,  he can't. Just like the president of the US can't do whatever they want.  Checks and balances.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

It's not up to Duarte, as has been verified by him. He said he won't go against their own laws. Luckily,  he can't. Just like the president of the US can't do whatever they want.  Checks and balances.

It's an understandable mistake from LawrenceChee. The Chinese leadership and their followers find it hard to understand how laws can get in the way of a nation's chief executive. Among nations, China ranks very low in the rule of law.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

I think China will find that dealing with a volatile thug won't ultimately work out. And I say this without holding any brief for the U.S. position in the Philippines. I think if Duterte wants the U.S. out, it should go. What's more, the USA should be doing more of what China is doing. Not invading foreign nations but doing much more with economic aid.

As has been said by other high ranking officials in the Philippines,  the relationship with the US isn't ending.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-philippines-idUSKCN12L28T

 

 

Quote

 

 Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said on Friday he was not severing ties with his country's long-time ally the United States, but merely pursuing a more independent foreign policy by strengthening relations with China.

 

A day after he provoked fresh diplomatic alarm by announcing his "separation" from Washington, Duterte struck a more conciliatory tone as he arrived back in the Philippines after a four-day visit to Beijing.

 

"It is not severance of ties. When you say severance of ties, you cut diplomatic relations. I cannot do that," the Philippine leader told reporters at a midnight news conference in his southern home city of Davao.

 

 

[LawrenceChee]

It's an understandable mistake from LawrenceChee. The Chinese leadership and their followers find it hard to understand how laws can get in the way of a nation's chief executive. Among nations, China ranks very low in the rule of law.

It's atypical response of China ....I understand it's really hard to understand China is making strides recently in many areas

No ones professes it to be perfect but of course for a small minority it's annoying that China is turning more savvy and moving things and influence at its own pace

Strange how some posters believe it's fine to call a democratically elected President a thug.

Almost akin to the one they overthrew in Iran decades ago and started their trends of being meddlesome.

If Trump gets elected by a freak result , it would be interesting to see what the commentators will call him. If HRC wins , the scale of how a President can lie is at a new level

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[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, LawrenceChee said:

It's atypical response of China ....I understand it's really hard to understand China is making strides recently in many areas

No ones professes it to be perfect but of course for a small minority it's annoying that China is turning more savvy and moving things and influence at its own pace

Strange how some posters believe it's fine to call a democratically elected President a thug.

Almost akin to the one they overthrew in Iran decades ago and started their trends of being meddlesome.

If Trump gets elected by a freak result , it would be interesting to see what the commentators will call him. If HRC wins , the scale of how a President can lie is at a new level

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Heck, I don't have to wait until Trump is elected to call him a thug.  As for the lies of Clinton, they pale in comparison to what the Chinese Press has exposed about its leaders?  Oh wait, there is no press in China to expose the lies of China's leaders.  

[derator01]

A post has been removed from view and a member warned.  Please abide by forum rules and show respect to other members. 

[LawrenceChee]

This is China's dilemma and hence like Duerte have decided to strike their own paths

When China has prosecuted their highest ranking officials and send them to jail , the west believes this is against human rights instead of focusing on China's rights to prosecute those who have failed their laws

When China learns from their experience in Tiananmen and exercises restraint against the students and protestors in the recent HK umbrella movement , the west focuses on how the 100,000 were having their rights trampled without wondering what about the vast majority of the 6.8 million that just want life to go on

China is not perfect and with 1.3 billion and growing , there will be conflicts and differences in opinions , China is making decisions based on the benefit of the majority and staying true to its hybrid communist ruling mixed with economic development

If the rest of the world does not believe in it ...that's fine by China

The west have been masking their own agendas and hypocrisy in their allies and strike convenient deals.

China getting into the mix irritates some but it's too big to go away or be ignored

Duerte is making some practical choices for his country and if you have lived there for extended periods of time , a Chinese partnership is good value for Philippines in the short run


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[Publicus]

4 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

This is China's dilemma and hence like Duerte have decided to strike their own paths

When China has prosecuted their highest ranking officials and send them to jail , the west believes this is against human rights instead of focusing on China's rights to prosecute those who have failed their laws

When China learns from their experience in Tiananmen and exercises restraint against the students and protestors in the recent HK umbrella movement , the west focuses on how the 100,000 were having their rights trampled without wondering what about the vast majority of the 6.8 million that just want life to go on

China is not perfect and with 1.3 billion and growing , there will be conflicts and differences in opinions , China is making decisions based on the benefit of the majority and staying true to its hybrid communist ruling mixed with economic development

If the rest of the world does not believe in it ...that's fine by China

The west have been masking their own agendas and hypocrisy in their allies and strike convenient deals.

China getting into the mix irritates some but it's too big to go away or be ignored

Duerte is making some practical choices for his country and if you have lived there for extended periods of time , a Chinese partnership is good value for Philippines in the short run


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When China has prosecuted their highest ranking officials and send them to jail , the west believes this is against human rights instead of focusing on China's rights to prosecute those who have failed their laws.

 

You're regularly confused Lawrence but at this point you're getting a bit garbled so I have to say something. (Which is aside your being scolding, pompous and stiff.)

 

Xi Jinping's successful anti-corruption campaign (focused always on his political opposition led by former prez Jiang Zemin, now severely weakened) is getting some real biggies in the CCP. And, vitally, it goes right into the CCP security apparatus and into the military which had always been the proverbial sacred cows. The U.S. has not criticised this...nor would Washington criticise it, nor should it, as the U.S. well knows.

 

While it is common knowledge Xi's political purposes drive the cleanup the CCP campaign, Washington, EU, the region and the world welcome a real, effective and painfully long overdue national anti-corruption campaign in CCP, that involves tough measures against tuff guyz who are wealthy and powerful, and we welcome the processing of 'em through CCP courts of CCP law. Xi's PLA general father was the victim of the Cultural Revolution, as was Xi himself, so, unlike Duterte in the Philippines, Xi's identified enemies are not being shot down in the streets by vigilantes in uniform or out of it.   

 

Xi had said from the outset in 2013 he'd get both the tigers as well as the flies, and Xi has been doing exactly that. Xi started from the bottom locally, in the counties, up to the provincial level and then into the CCP huge central government compound ZhongNanHai itself, inside big walls near Tiananmen Square. 

 

The heavy criticism of Xi and his dictatorship of CCP laws comes in the sensitive and paramount concern over human rights. The US and everyone in the West supporting and commending Xi's anti-corruption campaign, are hammering Xi and the CCP over their impervious campaign of human rights abuses of their own concerned citizens. Now the lawyers defending human rights advocates are being persecuted too.

 

So contrary to your muddled paragraph cited above, Xi gets recognition outside of CCP China and support of his desperately needed anti-corruption campaign that has packed tigers and flies into the prisons. Conversely, the criticism of Xi and CCP laws comes from the West in particular, led by the USA due to Xi's human right abuses, primarily as concerns we know as our First Amendment but also our Fourteenth Amendment.

 

Directly related is when Xi was still vice-president and Hillary Clinton was SecState. During a Xi hosted reception at the foreign leader's residence inside ZhongNanHai, Xi said HRC was a person he could work with. Sec. Clinton herself said she foresaw Xi as a promising leader in waiting, that Xi had strong views he communicated to you while being conversational about it. Xi and Mrs. Clinton said each easily understood each other and that that was fine.

 

Absent from the reception was the hapless Xi ally, the then Pres. Hu Jintao who understood nobody, was understood by no one, and was run ragged during his ten years by Jiang Zemin. Hu was always a Mr. Nobody who HRC described after she'd left DepState as a lesser person and leader than Xi (pron she).  This is good, that both Xi and She together recognise each is strong and that each is comfortable with the other.

[Scott]

6 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

This is China's dilemma and hence like Duerte have decided to strike their own paths

When China has prosecuted their highest ranking officials and send them to jail , the west believes this is against human rights instead of focusing on China's rights to prosecute those who have failed their laws

When China learns from their experience in Tiananmen and exercises restraint against the students and protestors in the recent HK umbrella movement , the west focuses on how the 100,000 were having their rights trampled without wondering what about the vast majority of the 6.8 million that just want life to go on

China is not perfect and with 1.3 billion and growing , there will be conflicts and differences in opinions , China is making decisions based on the benefit of the majority and staying true to its hybrid communist ruling mixed with economic development

If the rest of the world does not believe in it ...that's fine by China

The west have been masking their own agendas and hypocrisy in their allies and strike convenient deals.

China getting into the mix irritates some but it's too big to go away or be ignored

Duerte is making some practical choices for his country and if you have lived there for extended periods of time , a Chinese partnership is good value for Philippines in the short run


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The Philippines is free to align themselves with whomever they wish.  

 

There are some significant differences between the Chinese culture and Western culture.   These are rooted in some ancient beliefs.   I can't say that one is right and one is wrong, but they are different.   The Philippines is more closely rooted in the Western culture than the Asian.   English is the common language in the Philippines and Christianity is the dominant religion.  

 

I think that can best be explained with this Bible verse from the book of Matthew:

 

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

In China the right of the majority is greater than that of any individual and in the West, the right of the individual is greater.  

 

Whether the Philippines is making a practical pivot or not remains to be seen.  
 

 

[Publicus]

6 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

This is China's dilemma and hence like Duerte have decided to strike their own paths

When China has prosecuted their highest ranking officials and send them to jail , the west believes this is against human rights instead of focusing on China's rights to prosecute those who have failed their laws

When China learns from their experience in Tiananmen and exercises restraint against the students and protestors in the recent HK umbrella movement , the west focuses on how the 100,000 were having their rights trampled without wondering what about the vast majority of the 6.8 million that just want life to go on

China is not perfect and with 1.3 billion and growing , there will be conflicts and differences in opinions , China is making decisions based on the benefit of the majority and staying true to its hybrid communist ruling mixed with economic development

If the rest of the world does not believe in it ...that's fine by China

The west have been masking their own agendas and hypocrisy in their allies and strike convenient deals.

China getting into the mix irritates some but it's too big to go away or be ignored

Duerte is making some practical choices for his country and if you have lived there for extended periods of time , a Chinese partnership is good value for Philippines in the short run


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

When China learns from their experience in Tiananmen and exercises restraint against the students and protestors in the recent HK umbrella movement , the west focuses on how the 100,000 were having their rights trampled without wondering what about the vast majority of the 6.8 million that just want life to go on.

 

Astounding and incredulous in several ways at several levels.

 

Deng Xiao Peng and his CCP used the army to include tanks to slaughter and massacre unarmed pro-democracy civilians -- students especially and in particular -- and you insist we give Deng and his CCP credit for learning that it was wrong. It was in fact and moreover, a high visibility act of barbarism by barbarian tyrant leaders and their obedient People's Liberation Army. Liberation.

 

Then you presume to dichotomise and to speak for both 100,000 pro-democracy demonstrators and the 6.8 or point nine of Hong Kong residents. The characterisations of each side are pathetic. Pan-Democracy candidates were elected to the HKG Legislative Council from constituencies, districts and city-wide. A 23 year old Umbrella Leader. Nathan Law, was elected citywide, coming in second behind an older pro-democrat and land reformer.

 

Characterising the 6.9 million as you do for your own purposes is presumptuous and overbearing against Hongkongers and democracy itself. CCP hasn't any understanding of the forces at work in HKG except the nasty and vile thing, democracy. Self-determination, the consent of the governed, the accountable government its people demand. The 6.9 million statement is both assinine [sic] and absurd, so do continue to make it please because it really helps our side by exposing the vacuousness of your side.

 

Those Hongkongers who sit at home during the kind of developments occurring in HKG don't make history, they live it. This is historically true anywhere, everywhere. What is reasonable to say is that a number of them want democracy rather than control by the CCP dictatorship. After Tiananmen they're not going to risk the tyranny openly displayed by their dictators in Beijing. 

 

It is beside the point that you and I among others know there will be no Tiananmen in Hong Kong. Conversely, the Umbrella Movement is determined that there will be universal suffrage in HKG. Beijing is in its absolutism precipitating the independence movement and the independence political parties formed during this year. The only difference discussed among the several independence political parties is whether the referendum they all want should be in two years or in ten years.

 

In Beijing meanwhile Mugabe and Duterte are the heroes, one for much too long a time, the latter newcomer and wannabe for an unknown time. I am aware it is strictly verboten in the CCP for a foreign devil to criticise your leaders, those at the top especially, so the fact pretty much says it all about what CCP would do if it were to become dominant in the region. 

[tonbridgebrit]

On 21/10/2016 at 11:46 PM, ilostmypassword said:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-philippine-leaders-break-with-the-u-s-a-lifetime-of-resentment-1477061118

 

Thanks for putting up this article.   :)
What a super bit of writing from the Wall Street Journal.  Surely, the Wall Street Journal are not a bunch of Beijing fanboyz ?  They're far more likely to be a load of Washington cheerleaders ??


Okay, a few quotes from this article.

[Mr. Duterte is “trying to liberate us” from a “shackling dependency” on America, wrote Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. in a Facebook post this month.]

And  "Duterte is popular at home, with 76% of Filipinos saying in a poll this month by Social Weather Stations, a research group, that they are satisfied with his work."

And finally "At the Laos summit, he lashed out at Mr. Obama for alleged American war crimes over a century ago, holding up a photo of slain Filipinos and describing them as his own ancestors, says a person who was there."


Duterte really has had a life-time of resentment towards Washington.

 

 

[tonbridgebrit]

On 21/10/2016 at 0:43 PM, Publicus said:

 

Duterte will find out very soon he's put his fate in the hands of CCP in Beijing and that Washington will not lift a finger to save him from that.

 

 

 

 

 

"Duterte will find out very soon he's put his fate in the hands of CCP in Beijing and that Washington will not lift a finger to save him from that."


Wrong. Yes, Duterte is trying to put his fate into the hands of Beijing. But Washington will not lift a finger to "save" him ????

Washington might "save" him ?  Washington won't try to save him, but Washington is not going to let Duterte align the Philipinnes with China. This is because of the so-called attempt by Washington to do a "pivot to the Pacific".  Washington is simply not going to let go of the Philipinnes and allow Duterte to do his stuff.

 

[tonbridgebrit]

On 21/10/2016 at 2:02 PM, ilostmypassword said:

Well, until he loses his popularity, trying to depose or impeach him would be an act of lunacy.

"Well, until he loses his popularity, trying to depose or impeach him would be an act of lunacy."

Yes, I totally agree. But we've got to bear in mind, we know what people are like. Acts of lunacy ?  It's happened before.

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Scott said:

The Philippines is free to align themselves with whomever they wish.  

 

There are some significant differences between the Chinese culture and Western culture.   These are rooted in some ancient beliefs.   I can't say that one is right and one is wrong, but they are different.   The Philippines is more closely rooted in the Western culture than the Asian.   English is the common language in the Philippines and Christianity is the dominant religion.  

 

I think that can best be explained with this Bible verse from the book of Matthew:

 

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

In China the right of the majority is greater than that of any individual and in the West, the right of the individual is greater.  

 

Whether the Philippines is making a practical pivot or not remains to be seen.  
 

 

This kind of nonsense about the Chinese believing in the rights of the majority is just a convenient way for the corrupt Chinese leadership to shut down any kind of protests or inquiry into any of their activities or connections that they don't want known. As you may recall, the NY Times was banned from China for doing a piece exposing the corruption of China's leadership including their current boss.  Google has been similarly banned.

[tonbridgebrit]

18 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

CCP's rejection of the rulings by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague in respect of the UNILOS has damaged CCP grandiose New Silk Road project to Europe. 

 

Europeans won't cooperate unless CCP makes it a cooperative financial investment, rather than one directed by CCP owned state banks in PRC.

 

Bangkok has said its firm no to CCP tearing a canal through the Isthmus of Kra.

 

India put the kabosh to a Silk Road route through its north which CCP claims is its territory to begin with. CCP looks really focking stupid on this one in particular.

 

Tehran is cold on another proposed Silk Road route through the north of Iran which would transmogrify into a Chinese economic belt in Iran.

 

Russia is cold on a proposed New Silk Road north Asia route through the Stan countries at its borders.

 

CCP rejecting international law in the South China Sea affecting all of Asean to include Taiwan, South Korea, Japan all the way back down to Australia across to India is very scary to everyone.

 

Except to the CCP and its Fanboyz. Mugabe and Duterte are their heroes in Beijing.

Man, what on earth has the so-called New Silk Road got to do with this ?  
India ?  I quote from your comment "CCP looks really focking stupid on this one in particular."

I'm not going to say that Duterte's China policy makes Washington's actions in the South China Sea look "<deleted> stupid". 
What I will say, is, is Duterte wanting the US military out of the Philipinnes, and having his country aligned with China, well, it makes Washington's role in the South China Sea look silly. I mean, a main plank of Washington's policy is, supposedly, to save the Philipinnes from the Chinese aggresion, right ?

[tonbridgebrit]

16 hours ago, markusangel said:

 


But what Duterte does right now is going to untie the blindfold in which the Filipinos are kept to for 7 decades.
For me, I would say that Duterte must have a bad move, but I realized that when oil is gone in the ME, America could be in "trouble". West Philippine Sea has got that.  I have these questions in mind:
WHY IS AMERICA IN TROUBLE WITHOUT THE PHILIPPINES?

WHY PEOPLE (EVEN IN THIS FORUM) ARE TOO OBJECTIVE WITH WHAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE PHILIPPINES CARES ABOUT HIS COUNTRY?

At the end of the day, bashers are still bashers.... but Duterte is still Duterte who loved his people and protect his countrymen from drug addicted idiots.

 

 

Okay, a massive question "WHY IS AMERICA IN TROUBLE WITHOUT THE PHILIPPINES?"

Well, Washington wants to have a military presence in South East Asia, in or near the Philipinnes coast-line. Washington feels that it must have this. Now then, if Washington is going to have it's ships and aircraft in the South China Sea (near the Philippino coast-line), well, it's got to have permission from the Philipinnes.  Washington needs to have the Philippine government publicly say "yes, we want Washington near our coast-line".

That's why.

Also, it's not just a case of why America will be in trouble without the Philippines. The Philipinnes will end up falling into China's arms, be in China's sphere of influence. And one of Washington's goals is to prevent any country being in China's sphere of influence.

 

[LawrenceChee]

The Philippines is free to align themselves with whomever they wish.  
 
There are some significant differences between the Chinese culture and Western culture.   These are rooted in some ancient beliefs.   I can't say that one is right and one is wrong, but they are different.   The Philippines is more closely rooted in the Western culture than the Asian.   English is the common language in the Philippines and Christianity is the dominant religion.  
 
I think that can best be explained with this Bible verse from the book of Matthew:
 
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
 
In China the right of the majority is greater than that of any individual and in the West, the right of the individual is greater.  
 
Whether the Philippines is making a practical pivot or not remains to be seen.  
 
 

Agree it is different and hence China and the west should pursue their own strategies and see how the countries react to it and decide for themselves who they want to align themselves with

In ASEAN with the exception of Vietnam , all of the them are leaning towards China. Vietnam is more under the sphere of influence of Russia , another communist nation . Smartly as I have posted before they are playing both sides and getting the benefits from both

The question is whether USA will now be able to match what China is offering in this region or just send meaningless war patrols

ASEAN nations are practical countries with practical governments that need a huge infrastructure uplift . By not joining in AIIB while most of their western allies have done so will isolate the USA further and Duerte has played his dice a china alignment will bring him closer to his dreams of a more developed Philippines

I have seen what he has done in his 100 days to the NAIA Terminal 1 and he gets my vote ....he wants his people to have the best and it's showing ...his manners is his own business



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[Publicus]

3 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

 

Agree it is different and hence China and the west should pursue their own strategies and see how the countries react to it and decide for themselves who they want to align themselves with

In ASEAN with the exception of Vietnam , all of the them are leaning towards China. Vietnam is more under the sphere of influence of Russia , another communist nation . Smartly as I have posted before they are playing both sides and getting the benefits from both

The question is whether USA will now be able to match what China is offering in this region or just send meaningless war patrols

ASEAN nations are practical countries with practical governments that need a huge infrastructure uplift . By not joining in AIIB while most of their western allies have done so will isolate the USA further and Duerte has played his dice a china alignment will bring him closer to his dreams of a more developed Philippines

I have seen what he has done in his 100 days to the NAIA Terminal 1 and he gets my vote ....he wants his people to have the best and it's showing ...his manners is his own business



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Since the PCA ruling in The Hague that applied the UNCILOS to the South China Sea, CCP Dictators in Beijing have gone silent. Mute. The silence throughout the region has been deafening, hasn't it.

 

Yes, CCP made a lot of noise when the ruling was announced July 12th. It made humongous noise and commotion throughout the first half of 2016 in the leadup to the ruling expected in July. However, CCP since the end of July has fallen silent on it all.

 

While you Lawrence never jump up and down flapping your arms as CCP often does -- about the SCS especially -- even you are subdued in respect of the PCA ruling that set CCP back severely and profoundly, about the Philippines which successfully brought the case, and Duterte the past week in Beijing smooooching up to CCP. (Actually, Duterte in Beijing prostrated himself to CCP in a kowtow of such a great proportion that it left a distinct impression of his nose in the floor of the Great Hall of the People. Duterte for four dayze and nights spent most of his time on his knees while Xi Jinping held Digong's shoes in hand above him.)

 

Fact is everyone went silent after the PCA ruling had been declared. Which is cool. Silence or low spoken voices noting the ruling were perfect. This is because CCP are quietly getting in line with the PCA and the UNILOS treaty it signed in 1996. Reality is, CCP cannot afford to do otherwise. To ignore the UN Convention of the International Law of the Sea would identify CCP as an outlaw rogue state hell-bent on imposing its nefarious will on its neighbors throughout the region. 

 

CCP's spewings against the PCA and the UNILOS have already hurt its $40 billion grandiose New Silk Road concept which has four routes across Asia to Europe and which anyway remains on the drawing board. If CCP are going to be global outlaws, then who across Asia to Europe wants to do business or diplomacy with 'em. Nobody save for states such as Pakistan. 

 

Given that the South China Sea is a critical part of China’s 21st Century Maritime Silk Road, it cannot afford to not exercise restraint. Deadlock in the dispute is already damaging the prospects of the maritime arm of the One Belt, One Road (OBOR) initiative, which promises to act as a catalyst for China to step up infrastructure connectivity in the region and beyond.

 

http://www.orfonline.org/research/the-south-china-sea-disputes-territorial-claims-geopolitics-and-international-law/

 

 

In fact CCP did something significant on July 12th, the same day PCA announced its rulings against Beijing...

 

 

...the statement from Beijing released in direct response to the arbitration and a White Paper Beijing released the same day point to a shift in language and perhaps some space for compromise.

Andrew Chubb finds ‘welcome hints that China may be subtly … bringing its South China Sea maritime rights claims into line with UNCLOS’.

Beijing’s statement and White Paper bring clarity and nuance, according to Chubb, to its claims around an EEZ and continental shelf, nine-dash line and historic rights. It makes a distinction between sovereignty and maritime rights. This distinction is ‘crucial because it is overwhelmingly the enforcement of China’s maritime rights claims — not its territorial sovereignty claims — that have caused so much tension and concern since 2007’.

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2016/07/30/storm-clouds-gathering-in-the-south-china-sea/

 

Further, the analyst Chubb says Beijing has given itself space by ‘[d]riving attention towards this tough-sounding stance on territorial sovereignty’. Such a move ‘provides good political cover for the quiet clarification of China’s maritime rights claims that may be underway’.

 

The United States — the only country with the capability to enforce the ruling by force — has also shown restraint and played a role in keeping other South China Sea claimants from gloating or overreacting.

Beijing, like many other countries, has to manage nationalists at home and find a way to compromise without loss of face. The approach of ASEAN to the Tribunal’s rulings demonstrates understanding of that. There is no need for grandstanding, united claims of victory, immediate demands on China or statements that close the negotiating space. ASEAN can work with China over time towards a code of conduct on maritime security issues and better management of its economic security interests in the South China Sea with its major neighbour.

The window of opportunity for compromise is open. This is an important turning point in China’s relations with Southeast Asia which ASEAN and the Philippines can help Beijing negotiate to mutual advantage.

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2016/07/18/moment-for-compromise-in-the-south-china-sea/

 

As to Duterte, its the case of the Chinese view of things based on the legend of the monkey and the horse. The mind-monkey, xinyan, is random, restless, uncontrollable. The horse is strength, stability, will. Beijing realistically knows this is in fact the relationship between the CCP in Beijing and Rodrigo Duterte in Manila. The US knows it too, as do all of Asean.

 

Even Xi Jinping with his paster-cast face of the innocent shoolboy, standing next to Duterte, visibly whinced when Duterte blurted out that now it is "China, Russia, the Phillipines, against the world." At least Xi and the Boyz realistically know it is entirely the monkey and the horse.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Publicus
Complete the post safely.

[tonbridgebrit]

3 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

 

Since the PCA ruling in The Hague that applied the UNCILOS to the South China Sea, CCP Dictators in Beijing have gone silent. Mute. The silence throughout the region has been deafening, hasn't it.

 

Yes, CCP made a lot of noise when the ruling was announced July 12th. It made humongous noise and commotion throughout the first half of 2016 in the leadup to the ruling expected in July. However, CCP since the end of July has fallen silent on it all.

 

While you Lawrence never jump up and down flapping your arms as CCP often does -- about the SCS especially -- even you are subdued in respect of the PCA ruling that set CCP back severely and profoundly, about the Philippines which successfully brought the case, and Duterte the past week in Beijing smooooching up to CCP. (Actually, Duterte in Beijing prostrated himself to CCP in a kowtow of such a great proportion that it left a distinct impression of his nose in the floor of the Great Hall of the People. Duterte for four dayze and nights spent most of his time on his knees while Xi Jinping held Digong's shoes in hand above him.)

 

Fact is everyone went silent after the PCA ruling had been declared. Which is cool. Silence or low spoken voices noting the ruling were perfect. This is because CCP are quietly getting in line with the PCA and the UNILOS treaty it signed in 1996. Reality is, CCP cannot afford to do otherwise. To ignore the UN Convention of the International Law of the Sea would identify CCP as an outlaw rogue state hell-bent on imposing its nefarious will on its neighbors throughout the region. 

 

 

Even Xi Jinping with his paster-cast face of the innocent shoolboy, standing next to Duterte, visibly whinced when Duterte blurted out that now it is "China, Russia, the Phillipines, against the world." At least Xi and the Boyz realistically know it is entirely the monkey and the horse.

Publicus, you've decided to switch this thing from talking about Duterte wanting the 'US military out of the restive south' to re-focusing on the South China Sea ?

Okay, the South China Sea. What on earth are you trying to say ? So, Beijing has been mute about the issue since that Hague ruling ?  Look, we all know that Beijing grabbed hold of the Hague ruling and threw it into the bin. Those who were against Beijing noticed Beijing throwing the ruling into the bin, they laughed at Beijing, saying that Beijing was not living in the real world. Beijing was ignoring an internationally recognised ruling, and making itself look  _____   stupid.

Well, yes, Beijing threw the ruling into the bin, completely ignoring it, and intended to carry on building the Chinese dots (islands), regardless of the rulng. We all know/knew that. They're probably continuing the construction of the Chinese dots right now as we speak. Okay, you have come here, and blatantly said what Duterte has been doing in Beijing, he did it for four dayze and nights ?  I don't totally agree with you on what Duterte did, but I think I know what you're trying to say.

Man, surely, Beijing is allowed to have a smirk at the Hague ?  The Hague ruled against Beijing, but right now, what's happening ? Surely, Duterte's actions (according to you) mean that, sort of, the Hague ruling is almost irrelevant ? The Hague ?  Are they suppose to tell Duterte that he's not allowed to do this policy with Beijing ??????     

 

[ilostmypassword]

21 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

This is China's dilemma and hence like Duerte have decided to strike their own paths

When China has prosecuted their highest ranking officials and send them to jail , the west believes this is against human rights instead of focusing on China's rights to prosecute those who have failed their laws

When China learns from their experience in Tiananmen and exercises restraint against the students and protestors in the recent HK umbrella movement , the west focuses on how the 100,000 were having their rights trampled without wondering what about the vast majority of the 6.8 million that just want life to go on

China is not perfect and with 1.3 billion and growing , there will be conflicts and differences in opinions , China is making decisions based on the benefit of the majority and staying true to its hybrid communist ruling mixed with economic development

If the rest of the world does not believe in it ...that's fine by China

The west have been masking their own agendas and hypocrisy in their allies and strike convenient deals.

China getting into the mix irritates some but it's too big to go away or be ignored

Duerte is making some practical choices for his country and if you have lived there for extended periods of time , a Chinese partnership is good value for Philippines in the short run


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Odd, isn't it, how China has a 100% conviction rate against accused officials?  Odd, too, that recently the ones who have been convicted are not allies of the current leader.  If the trials are made public, they're just show trials where the accused confesses.  This is not justice. In :China judges are just catspaws for the faction in power.

[Publicus]

14 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

 

"Duterte will find out very soon he's put his fate in the hands of CCP in Beijing and that Washington will not lift a finger to save him from that."


Wrong. Yes, Duterte is trying to put his fate into the hands of Beijing. But Washington will not lift a finger to "save" him ????

Washington might "save" him ?  Washington won't try to save him, but Washington is not going to let Duterte align the Philipinnes with China. This is because of the so-called attempt by Washington to do a "pivot to the Pacific".  Washington is simply not going to let go of the Philipinnes and allow Duterte to do his stuff.

 

 

Duterte was elected with a plurality which is how the Philippines does it. He got 38% of the total vote, most of it from his home province of Mindanao. Duterte had gone to law school in Manila but he's spent his life in Mindanao and its lawless capital Davao City.

 

The vast number of people in the Phils live north of Mindanao. The Manila elites haven't ever had any use of the several insurgent separatist groups that operate in Mindanao and throughout the Phils' South. Duterte has been buddy-buddy with 'em all for most of his life. He has three members of his cabinet from the Philippine communist party which created the long operating, militant Maoist New People's Army. Duterte has always had a lot of brotherhoods down there to include especially brothers in arms. U.S. military have always been his nemesis down there. Not to mention the Phils armed forces.

 

WSJ is but one media organisation globally pointing out different aspects of these basic facts. And the basic facts are that in Manila and Luzon down through Cebu and onward, none of this is a good fit to many Filipinos. 

 

Yes Duterte is winning hearts and minds in his war against crime and drugs. He might want to control these things himself, but that might be speculation. Meanwhile Duterte is getting mileage out of it. The vehicle is a good one strategically for Duterte. He just has to keep his eye on the road in case it runs out. 

[Publicus]

On 10/22/2016 at 7:52 PM, LawrenceChee said:

It was not too Long ago in another thread I mentioned that Duerte will abandon this Hague ruling and head to China for deals

At that time , the usual band of China bashers came out and vilified China and mentioned its was next to impossible and that Philippines will stick to its western ally namely USA and be the pivot of balance

One poster went as far as to call all kind of names against Asian being pragmatic and practical

Now that everything I have mentioned is becoming reality , for those spooks they should start reading about Micronesia and see what that has to do with China's ambition of its maritime Silk Road

Probably enough to give some ulcers and wish the death maker would come sooner than for them to witness it


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It's good to see the CCP Boyz have Micronesia in a headlock too cause that's the whole match right there.  

 

Looks also like you posted to an unintended website cause nobody here fits the hyperbole or the OTT claims deposited here.

 

While you (and the USA Republican Party) don't see any problem in the following, others definitely do, i.e., when Duterte returned to Manila from Beijing he was asked if he prefers HRC or Donald Trump...

 

 

Russia’s Putin is Rody’s hero

 

“You know my friend, I would like to answer your question candidly, honestly and truthfully. Problem is, of course personally, it would not really matter much. But I am a President of a country and we have this splendid relation with America and the fact that there are already millions of Filipinos, maybe, in your country, I cannot gamble an answer. Because either way, it would affect, they might create a hostility here, antagonism here,” Duterte replied.

“So I am better off in saying that my favorite hero is (Russian President Vladimir) Putin,” he added.

Read more at http://tempo.com.ph/2016/10/23/russias-putin-is-rodys-hero/#Q8GpzIqZri8avETQ.99

 

So that would be the Trump-Putin-Duterte ticket for Potus. CCP btw are having to align themselves with the PCA ruling. They're being allowed to do it very and super quietly so Xi Jinping doesn't lose his plaster-cast hound dog face. 

[LawrenceChee]

Odd, isn't it, how China has a 100% conviction rate against accused officials?  Odd, too, that recently the ones who have been convicted are not allies of the current leader.  If the trials are made public, they're just show trials where the accused confesses.  This is not justice. In :China judges are just catspaws for the faction in power.

Odd isn't it that nothing China does is ever legit or good enough for the western world to judge by it's ridiculous standards

Hence China is striking it out on its own and doing what fits their communist mottos / quasi capitalist / quasi opening of the world / quasi freedom of expression ...

Lots the west does makes zero sense to Chinese as well ....justices are elected by the President in the west . Trump made it publicly known that he will select pro life judges and put them there ....is that also meddling with justice or because it is from the west , it passed the human rights test ?

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[craigt3365]

4 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

Odd isn't it that nothing China does is ever legit or good enough for the western world to judge by it's ridiculous standards

 

That's not true, You're being too sensitive. Like every country in the world,  they do some good things and some bad things. Criticism is good. If acted upon.

 

Sadly with China, there is no freedom of speech. That's a big problem.

[Publicus]

5 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

Odd isn't it that nothing China does is ever legit or good enough for the western world to judge by it's ridiculous standards

Hence China is striking it out on its own and doing what fits their communist mottos / quasi capitalist / quasi opening of the world / quasi freedom of expression ...

Lots the west does makes zero sense to Chinese as well ....justices are elected by the President in the west . Trump made it publicly known that he will select pro life judges and put them there ....is that also meddling with justice or because it is from the west , it passed the human rights test ?

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Odd isn't it that nothing China does is ever legit or good enough for the western world to judge by it's ridiculous standards

 

Your characterisation comes from the ancient world of the celestial kingdom which was anyway a world of fantasy right next to the kingdom of the angels with harps. 

 

CCP clings on to the ancient beliefs such as dictatorship and rule by an elite statist oligarchy. CCP's only dalliance in the modern world is the failed notions of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism modified by a wannabe Trump, none other than Deng Xiao Peng (who due to China's particular history missed his calling by a generation supressed by Mao).

 

China's old verities are all of the falsehoods of the present millennia. You've been failing over there for 600 years without letup. Relentlessly.