Problem with Thai Passports & ID's use of Miss or Mrs as part of Given Name

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm trying to figure out how to correctly use my Thai wife's given (first) name on official documents and uses outside of Thailand, such as for visa applications, international airline tickets, foreign bank accounts, etc.

 

The complication is, Thai national ID cards and passports seem to incorporate the "Miss" or "Mrs." title as part of the woman's given (first) name. So on those Thai documents for given name, they will say, for example, "Miss Jane" or "Mrs. Jane" instead of just her actual given name of just "Jane". But in the U.S. and elsewhere I'd imagine, the Miss or Mrs. reference may be used, but it's not made part of the person's passport or ID card. My U.S. passport doesn't say "Mr. John." For my given name, it just says "John."

 

So how to reconcile that when doing non-Thai things like a U.S. visa application?  Supposedly, the applicant is supposed to use their name exactly as listed on their Thai passport. So for all future, international uses including things like tourist visa applications, should I be listing her given (first) name as "Mrs. Jane" or just "Jane."  And if I do use just "Jane," does that have the potential to create problems down the road with someone complaining, the name used and her passport/ID name don't match

 

This kind of stuff makes me crazy!!!

 

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was searching around, trying to see if anyone else had posted on/encountered this issue before, and only found one related post where the naming issue had caused a problem for a mixed couple living outside Thailand (in Mexico).

 

The OP in that thread asked a similar question, but no one ever responded to his post. In his case, the OP indicated Mexican Immigration was insisting that his Thai wife's first name had to be listed as "Mrs. XXXX" because of the way her Thai ID/passport given name was written. And that an application they were making on behalf of his wife was rejected at one point by the Mexican authorities because of the mismatch of "Mrs. XXXX" vs. just "XXXXX".

 

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Great.... I posed the above question with the U.S. Consulate's email help service for non-immigrant visas, and just got an email back to them referring me to FAQs and other places -- none of which even address the issue of how to handle Thai given (first) names and whether or not to use the Mrs. or Miss title as part of a given name entry.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, since the U.S. Consulate wouldn't answer the question by email, the wife and I checked around today in search of an answer -- she talking to Thai female acquaintances who have traveled abroad in the past, and me calling Thai Airways and speaking with a female CSR there re making an international flight reservation.

 

And the consensus seems to be that -- for purposes of visa applications, international air travel, etc. -- if the Thai woman's passport has an entry for "Given Name" that then says "Mrs. XXXXX" or "Miss XXXXXX" as they apparently all do, then that Thai woman ought to do all her travel paperwork documents using the Mrs. or Miss title as part of their first name -- and not just her first name only.

 

As the Thai Airways CSR told me, the visa or other travel documents should match EXACTLY with whatever name entry is listed on the person's passport.

 

I'm kind of surprised that no one else here seems to have dealt with this same issue in the past, at least in terms of being able to provide any guidance up until now in this thread.

[nrasmussen]

I once got the advice to always use the name(s) exactly as written in the machine readable part of the passport. That should be the safe way to do it, also for names containing non-English letters and letters with accents.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks very much for that post, and it helped me see something I had overlooked earlier.

 

On the wife's Thai ID card, there's just one line/entry for first name where it says only NAME and then is listed as "Miss XXXXX" or "Mrs. XXXXX."

 

But on the Thai passport, that same kind of line entry has two adjoining data label listings, one labeled TITLE above where the "Mrs." info is listed, and then next to that is a NAME field above where the "XXXXX" is listed.

 

And, as you mentioned above, when I look down at the machine readable data at the bottom of the Thai passport face page, it only shows her country (THA) and then her family name and given/first name only -- with no "Mrs." or "Miss" listed at all in that section.

 

So, contrary to what I was thinking above, it now looks like indeed it ought to be OK to just go with the FIRST and LAST name only on the visa application and other travel documents, and not worry about using the "Mrs." or "Miss" label, unless those documents have a separate entry field for "Title" or something like that.

 

Thanks for helping save me (and the wife) from a lot of potential future headaches and grief.

 

 

 

 

[KhunBENQ]

You investigated on your own.

And sure: other countries will not accept Mr, Mrs, Ms as part of a name.

As far as I know this inclusion mainly serves to indicate the sex of the person.

Kathoyes (ladyboys) hate to have a "Mr." on their card

 

Look at the passport and you see:

"Title Name" instead of simply "First Name"/"Given Name"

and you have a separate "Sex" entry.

 

Well observed!

I never noticed although seeing so many ID cards and passports in the family.

Agree with post #5, machine readable zone.

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by KhunBENQ

[bigyin]

When I included my wife on my UK bank account she had to use the name exactly as on the passport which in her case is Miss even though we are married.  We had some proof of residence letters but they showed Mrs so I have changed everything official here in the UK to Miss..... to match the passport.

[chricha]

I have just encountered this issue in Australia so it is still causing headaches.

Immigration had no problem with using her passport with "Miss C S" because the machine readable section at the bottom drops the "MISS"  and she now has a permanent resident visa in the name "C S".

But when I attempted to get her registered with the student system for free English classes they could not use the passport and visa as the visa does not have the MISS as on the passport and computer says NO!

I have now supplied her medicare card so they can verify her identity! Very silly system.

[Stocky]

On 9/19/2016 at 8:12 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm kind of surprised that no one else here seems to have dealt with this same issue in the past

It's never occurred to me until reading this thread. For visa applications, UK and Schengen, my wife has entered her given name and surname without the 'Mrs'.