update on affirmations of freedom to marry not being accepted anywhere in Thailand.

[benjybkk]

Just an update.

 

 The Bang Plad office on Charansanitwong road in Bangkok called us last Friday saying they couldn't register the marriage for the same reason. Disclaimer on the affirmation.

 

I went and collected all the documents back yesterday and called the British embassy.

 

The embassy said there had been a meeting last week at the MFA and it had been confirmed this issue was resolved and the affirmations would be accepted. They even had proof in the form of a Thai letter. She said if I had any problems to give them the phone and let them talk to the embassy.

 

 Off we went to Laksi office. Got there and same old rubbish. Cannot accept it. I flatly refused to leave and they spoke to the British embassy. Even after faxes, emails etc etc of this letter confirming the meeting last week after 2 hours the lady just said "no cannot" and pointed to the disclaimer. On a sidenote I've been here 6 years and I speak good Thai. I had the whole argument with her in Thai and she just kept saying they couldn't accept this document.

 

 Gave up. Went to Nonthaburi. All be it next door to Bangkok but still a different province.

 

 They were very nice there unlike at Laksi. However they said the process was now to take the forms and send them to be checked and confirmed as true. Then once this had happened they would call us in to register our marriage. They said this could take anywhere between 2 weeks to 2 months.

 

 So I just submitted the paperwork. They had a pile of paperwork from other foreigners who had done the same.

 

 They also said that British was good. If the nationality was Russian, Indian or any African country they WOULD NOT accept the paperwork.

 

 I called the British embassy after. They have no idea about this "checking" process and where the affidavits will go to be "confirmed as true". 

 

 The embassy is looking into it and trying to sort it out again and will call me back.

 

 Any information or accounts of personal experiences over yesterday or today would be extremely welcome and helpful.

 

 I'm a bit baffled as to why there isn't much more talk of this on this site. There is on other sites but very little here. I don't get it. I can't be the only person experiencing this..

 

 Thanks

 

[TobiasML]

Because of all those kind of troubles from Thai departments as well from my own embassy I went to get married in Hong Kong.

A lot easier and still recognized in most countries. Added bonus a short honeymoon vacation.

[dereklev]

An American friend had the same happen to him and his bride to be at Laksi yesterday.

[Gillyflower]

53 minutes ago, TobiasML said:

Because of all those kind of troubles from Thai departments as well from my own embassy I went to get married in Hong Kong.

A lot easier and still recognized in most countries. Added bonus a short honeymoon vacation.

Yeah, but in HK they are Brit trained!

[maoro2013]

Well I needed to provide a proof of divorce. A bit useless really as I could have married again since. Anyway I jumped through the hoops and all is well.

[steve187]

19 minutes ago, maoro2013 said:

Well I needed to provide a proof of divorce. A bit useless really as I could have married again since. Anyway I jumped through the hoops and all is well.

a proof of divorce is also required in the UK, that is what the affirmation is for, to show that you have  not re-married

[Saan]

Are Thai divorce certificates acceptable or is it also necessary to get another proof of being free to marry from your home country?

[maoro2013]

5 minutes ago, steve187 said:

a proof of divorce is also required in the UK, that is what the affirmation is for, to show that you have  not re-married

OK but I am Australian, looks like we are treated differently.

[northernboy]

The interior Ministry office has sent out a letter saying they will accept the British affidavit but sadly they leave it up to each Khet to decide if they want to or not.  "ka-ching Ka-ching"

Some are willing to as long as the gratuity is enough. As we all know that no matter your verbal skills in  Thai, they  will never be stated to a Farang especially  if he wants to play a know it all and as Thainess is an important consideration with the Thai Government at present. 

 

 

I would be dumbfounded if the checking program will include a call asking the Thai wife to be,  being asked if they would like to retrieve the papers back or they can perhaps do a reciprocal favour and can help get them married if it is important enough to the couple.

 

I know a wedding planner who arranges the  couples to be legally married in Thailand, who has successful in  getting British destination couples and British and other nationalities including Thai registered in Bangkok during this period. Tt is all legal but does take Thai talking to Thai people. 

So keep looking for a Khet that is not haveing the unofficial government version of  2 pricing farang system or hire a professional to assist you. 

Maybe the TAT has to ask if their huge adverting and marketing budget to promote foreigner getting married in Thailand or expats to live here is not being undermined by some other government offices. 

 

 

 

[NoBrainer]

Why is everybody wanting to get married in the first place?

 

Don't you all know, that once you've tied the knot, the only thing left to look forward to is the divorce?

 

Is there really any advantage to being married? I would think that cohabitation is already far too much commitment

for most people. If your girl really loves you, then a piece of paper is not necessary, and if she doesn't, then why do you want

to be with her anyway.

 

[Scotwight]

9 minutes ago, NoBrainer said:

Why is everybody wanting to get married in the first place?

 

Don't you all know, that once you've tied the knot, the only thing left to look forward to is the divorce?

 

Is there really any advantage to being married? I would think that cohabitation is already far too much commitment

for most people. If your girl really loves you, then a piece of paper is not necessary, and if she doesn't, then why do you want

to be with her anyway.

 

Visa extension by reason of marriage half as much money in bank as retirement extension.  

[timewilltell]

31 minutes ago, NoBrainer said:

Why is everybody wanting to get married in the first place?

 

Don't you all know, that once you've tied the knot, the only thing left to look forward to is the divorce?

 

Is there really any advantage to being married? I would think that cohabitation is already far too much commitment

for most people. If your girl really loves you, then a piece of paper is not necessary, and if she doesn't, then why do you want

to be with her anyway.

 

 

Well maybe you cannot bear living here anymore and taking your cohabiting partner to your home country or elsewhere will result in either a wall of denial or years of complications so getting married ends up being where governments force people in desperation?

[Thaidream]

An affirmation of marriage is sworn to under penalty of perjury and has always been accepted by the Thai marriage registry office apparently until now. Why should someone have to spend money for a 'wedding planner' to have them convince the marriage registration department to do their job?  I see this as a roadblock which uses money to unblock it which is as we know is common in certain areas of the World.  People should complain constantly to their embassy about this. If push comes to shove- I would go abroad and get married and bring back the documentation and then register the marriage in Thailand. When this happens enough times- those in power will stop this current nonsense.

[Liquorice]

What do you mean by 'disclaimer on the affirmation'.

[timewilltell]

1 minute ago, Faz said:

What do you mean by 'disclaimer on the affirmation'.

 

The disclaimer states that the Embassy is not responsible for the information thereon which is the responsibility of the individual.  Obviously the Embassy will not know if an individual has married elsewhere in another country for instance but can do such checks as is reasonable in the situation.  i think it all started with some Indian somewhere abusing the system and the Thais really do not understand much as to what checks an Embassy can reasonably do.  So if you go and get married in Hong Kong but never report it to the Embassy then how would they know or be able to check?  Just a lack of thought really as is usual in Thailand.  Deep thinking - actually even basic thinking - seems to be a problem especially in official circles.

[Liquorice]

There is no such disclaimer on their example of a completed affirmation.

 

Original divorce certificates are surrendered when making an affirmation to marry again, so it would be impossible to marry anywhere else, unless you stated you were single, never married on your affirmation.

Even then the UK department of Births, Deaths and Marriage can issue a certificate from their records confirming you have never registered a marriage.

[Thaidream]

There have been a series of 'marriages of convenience' reported in Thailand involving Indians/Chinese and other nationalities providing money to a Thai woman to marry them so they could stay in Thailand with a marriage visa. This is normally for some business reason or possibly to enable an illegal action. What is currently happening with the affirmation is IMHO an over reaction which will not solve the issue at all. The Embassy always has a disclaimer because there is no possible way they could check the background of every citizen. however, the affirmation is acceptable because it is done under penalty of perjury.

If the marriage turns out to be illegal- say a marriage of convenience- no amount of pre checking can stop these. However, what is done in the West- the USA for example is a series of interviews involving  the Visa application; home visits; and a provisional Visa of normally 2 years before it is finalized. No government can stop citizens from marriage but it looks as if the Thai bureaucracy is trying to make it more difficult.

[Liquorice]

'Marriages of convenience' happen the world over, it's nothing new.

I'm also familiar with procedures for getting married abroad or obtaining Visas for a Spouse.

I have never seen a 'disclaimer' made by a Notary, or government office when making an affirmation.

It's a sworn statement made under oath and usually with supporting documental proof of the facts.

 

I'd specifically like to hear from the OP, what disclaimer he is referring to, but I appreciate your input and explanation.

[Damaz6052]

Looks like Phuket isn't included in these new changes. A friend registered their marriage in Phuket Town yesterday.

This news isn't good for destination weddings and those couples wanting legalise their wedding. 

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, Gillyflower said:

Yeah, but in HK they are Brit trained!

 

They appear to have overcome that handicap, unlike the British embassy.

[Thaidream]

I just pulled up a copy of the US Embassy Affirmation for marriage document and there is no disclaimer on it but a statement indicating " Under penalty of perjury, I assume full and complete responsibility for the veracity of the claims herein." There is also a place to indicate person's to contact as potential 'witnesses" that the Affirmation is indeed true.

I can't imagine what else the Thai authorities would want to actually register the marriage.

[Deepinthailand]

2 hours ago, NoBrainer said:

Why is everybody wanting to get married in the first place?

 

Don't you all know, that once you've tied the knot, the only thing left to look forward to is the divorce?

 

Is there really any advantage to being married? I would think that cohabitation is already far too much commitment

for most people. If your girl really loves you, then a piece of paper is not necessary, and if she doesn't, then why do you want

to be with her anyway.

 

In your opinion of course and you are welcome to your opinion mine however is the exact opposite I see married as a posative thing an certainly not a divorce waiting to happen

[kennypowers]

The latest updates from people reporting their experiences trying different amphur's can be found here: http://www.thethailandlife.com/married-thailand-diy-day

[whaleboneman]

8 hours ago, NoBrainer said:

Why is everybody wanting to get married in the first place?

 

Don't you all know, that once you've tied the knot, the only thing left to look forward to is the divorce?

 

Is there really any advantage to being married? I would think that cohabitation is already far too much commitment

for most people. If your girl really loves you, then a piece of paper is not necessary, and if she doesn't, then why do you want

to be with her anyway.

 

I have been with my girlfriend for four years now. I spend half my time in Thailand and we have a small house there. If I drop dead today, she would be considered my spouse and entitled to a large portion of my estate under Canadian rules. (shared with my two Canadian children)

I understand that if I marry her, I can declare certain assets as personal property and she would than not be entitled to them. If this is the case, I could leave my house in Canada to my kids, the Thai house to GF, and the Canadian investments can be shared as I see fit.

It seems to me that marriage would be a good way to ensure that my children get the bulk of my estate.

[Deepinthailand]

4 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

I have been with my girlfriend for four years now. I spend half my time in Thailand and we have a small house there. If I drop dead today, she would be considered my spouse and entitled to a large portion of my estate under Canadian rules. (shared with my two Canadian children)

I understand that if I marry her, I can declare certain assets as personal property and she would than not be entitled to them. If this is the case, I could leave my house in Canada to my kids, the Thai house to GF, and the Canadian investments can be shared as I see fit.

It seems to me that marriage would be a good way to ensure that my children get the bulk of my estate.

So if you really don't want her to have anything just leave her now. Some statement you made there. If she where to read this bet she'd be so happy????

[ToS2014]

13 hours ago, Scotwight said:

Visa extension by reason of marriage half as much money in bank as retirement extension.  

If money is the issue, I wonder how much of it is spent keeping the loving, caring, generous, etc.... wife happy? Retirement visa is MUCH simpler and MUCH cheaper IMHO....but its a smelly one

[faraday]

13 hours ago, Faz said:

There is no such disclaimer on their example of a completed affirmation.

 

Original divorce certificates are surrendered when making an affirmation to marry again, so it would be impossible to marry anywhere else, unless you stated you were single, never married on your affirmation.

Even then the UK department of Births, Deaths and Marriage can issue a certificate from their records confirming you have never registered a marriage.

It is added after you present the doc to them.

I went to the British Embassy 2 weeks ago, & it was on the bottom.

Went to the Amphur, got married without any problems.

Dunno why so many people are having these alleged difficulties.

 

[Liquorice]

30 minutes ago, faraday said:

It is added after you present the doc to them.

 

 

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.

[whaleboneman]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

So if you really don't want her to have anything just leave her now. Some statement you made there. If she where to read this bet she'd be so happy????

I didn't say any such thing. I have already provided my girlfriend with a home in Thailand. My children are renters as Vancouver real estate is out of their reach. I merely want them to be able to also have their own home one day. I believe I am the one to decide on the proper division of my estate and not the government. If she were to read this she would understand.

[Deepinthailand]

9 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

I didn't say any such thing. I have already provided my girlfriend with a home in Thailand. My children are renters as Vancouver real estate is out of their reach. I merely want them to be able to also have their own home one day. I believe I am the one to decide on the proper division of my estate and not the government. If she were to read this she would understand.

I am sorry then if I read it diffrent from yourself it came across as I don't want my girlfriend to have xxxxx if I drop dead. Why wait till you die give the children the house now as a gift not sure on Canadian law but I'm sure a gift to dependents would be legal there. Then they can do as they please with it.

I am married here and have Kids in UK.

Two wills both mentioning the other will. Anything in Thailand is the wifes an kid here. House in UK is the kids there and money in bank in uk is for kids. I am in the process of selling house in UK will them put it with money in Bank for kids. Then after 6 months or so divide it up between them job done. They need the money before I croak. Then will in UK will be destroyed legal ie make new will via solicitor saying any money in bank account in Thailand. (as property here is wifes anyway) is for the wife and kid in Thailand. My kids in UK now this and have no problems with that.