Charlotte shooting: family releases video of Keith L Scott's last moments

[lovelomsak]

34 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Hmm, no. Those officers are supposed to have received proper training how to handle situations like this without it getting out of hand. Arm chair judges are supposed to judge them.

They did handle it right it did not get out of hand simple huh.

[ClutchClark]

3 hours ago, dcutman said:

I would not have a problem at all with this, if, at anytime the man showed some sort of aggressive behavior. He clearly did not show that. In fact he was minding his own biz waiting for his kids to get off the school bus. He just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. IMO many of these police killings can be avoided by just taking a few minutes to calm things down or call in people that can deal with things rationally.

Yes the man was a convicted felon, and he served his 7 year sentence for that. It was 14 years ago and as far as I know he has been in no trouble since. Many here are making that the excuse for shooting this man, like a rabid dog.

 

 

Do you not understand that posession of a firearm, erratic actions and refusing to follow police orders IS by definition "Aggressive Behavior"?

 

It takes a fraction of a second to use that firearm and it reaches out 25' accurately and kills people. 

 

There is a misconception here that the felon has a right to first aim the firearm and that is a false narrative. 

 

Try this exercise, you are in your house with your family and an armed intruder comes into your house. He is not acting aggressively, he is just walking through the rooms. You shout to him multiple times to depart but he ignores you. (Perhaps he has a Brain Trauma from a year previous or maybe he is just under the influence of drugs or both). 

 

Do you allow him to walk into your childrens rooms?

 

After all, he is not acting "aggressively" (by your definition).

---------------

The Police have a duty to serve and protect the community. They do not have to wait until someone is shot before they are tasked with reacting. Keith Scott woke up that day and made a series of bad decisions (after what appears to be decades of similarly bad decisions) which ultimately resulted in his death. Nobody forced Scott to posess a firearm, in fact, society forbid him from such and he ignored them. Nobody forced Scott to get high. Nobody forced Scott to refuse multiple police orders. Each of these decisions were Scotts alone.

[PTC]

5 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Do you not understand that posession of a firearm, erratic actions and refusing to follow police orders IS by definition "Aggressive Behavior"?

 

It takes a fraction of a second to use that firearm and it reaches out 25' accurately and kills people. 

 

There is a misconception here that the felon has a right to first aim the firearm and that is a false narrative. 

 

Try this exercise, you are in your house with your family and an armed intruder comes into your house. He is not acting aggressively, he is just walking through the rooms. You shout to him multiple times to depart but he ignores you. (Perhaps he has a Brain Trauma from a year previous or maybe he is just under the influence of drugs or both). 

 

Do you allow him to walk into your childrens rooms?

 

After all, he is not acting "aggressively" (by your definition).

---------------

The Police have a duty to serve and protect the community. They do not have to wait until someone is shot before they are tasked with reacting. Keith Scott woke up that day and made a series of bad decisions (after what appears to be decades of similarly bad decisions) which ultimately resulted in his death. Nobody forced Scott to posess a firearm, in fact, society forbid him from such and he ignored them. Nobody forced Scott to get high. Nobody forced Scott to refuse multiple police orders. Each of these decisions were Scotts alone.

 

Mr. Keith Scott was not walking uninvited through someone's living room. There is no indication that Mr. Keith Scott had any intention of walking into any child's bedroom. There were no living rooms or bedrooms involved in this incident.

 

You assert that the claim was made about aiming a gun as being required to qualify as aggressive behavior. Who made such a claim? Certainly not the poster to whom you replied. Presenting an argument that has not been offered just to knock it down is a very lazy way to try and make a point. It means that you have no real substance to offer. Just a bunch of what ifs. All these hypothetical are designed to do one thing. Divert away from any consideration of the real issues. That another black man was killed by police. Another unjustifiable death, like so many that people are blaming on the victim - his decisions, his record, his assumed actions, his assumed thoughts and intent.

 

The police have a duty not to kill people. The infrequency with which this occurs in other countries is an indicator that something is wrong and it has nothing to do with the assumed actions of the victim.

 

There were multiple de-escalation strategies that could have been used. Until police are required to face the consequences of their disrespectful treatment of fellow citizens and be charged and convicted in these circumstances, then these situations will continue.

[ClutchClark]

3 minutes ago, PTC said:

 

Mr. Keith Scott was not walking uninvited through someone's living room. There is no indication that Mr. Keith Scott had any intention of walking into any child's bedroom. There were no living rooms or bedrooms involved in this incident.

 

You assert that the claim was made about aiming a gun as being required to qualify as aggressive behavior. Who made such a claim? Certainly not the poster to whom you replied. Presenting an argument that has not been offered just to knock it down is a very lazy way to try and make a point. It means that you have no real substance to offer. Just a bunch of what ifs. All these hypothetical are designed to do one thing. Divert away from any consideration of the real issues. That another black man was killed by police. Another unjustifiable death, like so many that people are blaming on the victim - his decisions, his record, his assumed actions, his assumed thoughts and intent.

 

The police have a duty not to kill people. The infrequency with which this occurs in other countries is an indicator that something is wrong and it has nothing to do with the assumed actions of the victim.

 

There were multiple de-escalation strategies that could have been used. Until police are required to face the consequences of their disrespectful treatment of fellow citizens and be charged and convicted in these circumstances, then these situations will continue.

 

I was attempting to help the poster understand his definition of "Aggressive" was not correct...you have entered the conversation and apparently missed that. 

 

It is correct that this did not take place in house, that is very astute of you. It took place in the street and just like your house is your responsibility to protect--the street is the responsibility of the police to protect. 

 

Your last paragraph discusses the "multiple de-escalation strategies" and I would request you list them now. Apparently you have some expertise on this matter. could you list them for me?

 

Thanks

[RPCVguy]

2 hours ago, JDGRUEN said:

 

Because national FBI data shows the following to be totally untrue  - see the video 'Does the Truth Matter' above... your assumption cannot be supported by factual data.

"The other issue is that people have taken to the streets of Charlotte. Why are so many black people losing their lives in situations where proportionally more white people are apprehended alive? This is the broader context of which people are greatly incensed. "

Asked and answered - earlier.
What the Data Really Says About Police and Racial Bias
Eighteen academic studies, legal rulings, and media investigations shed light on the issue roiling America.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias

[Asiantravel]

8 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

The police witnessed him rolling a marijuana blunt and in posession of a handgun. When he exited the vehicle he did not follow police orders. Instead he moved away from police and in the direction of the community. Police rightfully were concerned Scott would pose a threat to that community. 

 

Why don't these black males act in a rational manner and follow police orders and why do they so often have drugs and firearms? The culture of the black community can be seen in any number of rap videos--drugs, violence, firearms are glorified. The ministers and civic leaders of these communities need to change that narrative.

 

why didn't the police officer use  a taser? And if some reason that was not feasible then

why didn't the police officer shoot at one of his legs ? I don't understand why all these police officers are shooting to kill?

[PTC]

15 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I was attempting to help the poster understand his definition of "Aggressive" was not correct...you have entered the conversation and apparently missed that. 

 

It is correct that this did not take place in house, that is very astute of you. It took place in the street and just like your house is your responsibility to protect--the street is the responsibility of the police to protect. 

 

Your last paragraph discusses the "multiple de-escalation strategies" and I would request you list them now. Apparently you have some expertise on this matter. could you list them for me?

 

Thanks

 

It is plain what you were trying to do and you will not bait me into providing lists of anything for you to nit pick and use as diversions.

 

I have already offered one solution on this thread in spite of your fallacious observation that I am late in entering this conversation, which is not a conversation but a series of public posts. Some may want an endless discussion on police procedurals but that is not the meat of the issue. It is a legalistic and unsympathetic response to trying to defining actions and reactions. These responses in the forms of additional laws, regulations, rules, codes of conduct invariably favor the authorities and not the victim and is further evidence of systemic bias as a result of the removal or absence of real checks and balances to moderate the authority of the  State.

 

If you were a good faith poster, then you would explore de-escalation techniques and be ready to discuss these in the context of the killing of Mr. Keith Scott. However, you throw this out as bait hoping for further diversion and deflection. If you wish to start learning about this issue, perhaps you might start with this http://www.policemag.com/channel/careers-training/articles/2016/03/de-escalation-training-learning-to-back-off.aspx . I have already posted the link once this morning but you must have missed that. It is in an industry magazine so it can't be from the looney left. The article may prepare you to cope with much more blunt and aggressively critical articles on the dysfunction of the policing and criminal justice system and its lack of respect for citizens.

 

I have always found this quote to be apt and now applicable to this situation involving th misuse and abuse of authority:

 

"You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners"

 

It is attributed to Dostoevsky but I cannot find the precise reference however I believe the sentiment applies and is an indictment of how citizens are treated by police.

[ClutchClark]

13 minutes ago, Asiantravel said:

 

why didn't the police officer use  a taser? And if some reason that was not feasible then

why didn't the police officer shoot at one of his legs ? I don't understand why all these police officers are shooting to kill?

 

The police did not use a taser because the bad guy had a real gun with real bullets. 

 

 

[stevenl]

39 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

The police did not use a taser because the bad guy had a real gun with real bullets. 

 

 

Did he? So far all we have for that is the word of the police. Nothing in the vids, even stronger, one of them casts doubt on the clai. And we have the word of his wife saying he did not have a weapon.

 

I think there was a weapon, but whether he had it in his hand, in the holster or in the car is still very unclear.

[JDGRUEN]

Paul Joseph Watson

Reporter  Paul Joseph Watson files this video report on the violence in Charlotte, NC ... Mr Watson tells the REAL STORY of what is going on there versus the fantasy story of peaceful protest reported by MSNBC and other biased media...

Paul Joseph Watson

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JDGRUEN]

1 hour ago, Asiantravel said:

 

why didn't the police officer use  a taser? And if some reason that was not feasible then

why didn't the police officer shoot at one of his legs ? I don't understand why all these police officers are shooting to kill?

 

Police officers shoot to kill because that is what they are trained to do, because that is what they are told to do, that is because the law allows it ... Shooting a man with a gun in the legs does not keep him from firing back ... center mass in the target that the police aim for... because they are positive they must stop the person with the gun... 

[tifino]

On 9/24/2016 at 2:52 PM, Steely Dan said:

So a black cop shoots a black man, the black mans brother says all white people are Devils. Well you can guess the rest.
 

 

 

Quote

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

But did you notice that the assault upon the Cash Register got more airplay time?

maybe this is to accentuate the feeling the blacks were again simply attacking dudes:

 

 -  for the exuse to again go on a thieving rampage

       - and again...... the same as happens whenever a disaster occurs

Edited September 25, 2016 by tifino

[metisdead]

An inflammatory bickering post has been removed, more are likely to be removed. 

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

aulJoseph Watson

Reporter  Paul Joseph Watson files this video report on the violence in Charlotte, NC ... Mr Watson tells the REAL STORY of what is going on there versus the fantasy story of peaceful protest reported by MSNBC and other biased media...

Paul Joseph Watso

 

 

Nonsense. The MSM have been reporting it exactly for what it is/was:  there were peaceful protests, but these have been taken over by rioters.

[JDGRUEN]

4 hours ago, PTC said:

 

If it is not in the reports or articles, then how do you know that Mr. Keith Scott listened to Rap music?

 

If it is not in the reports or articles, then how can you say that Mr. Keith Scott was self-indulgent?

 

Have you seen Mr. Keith Scott's Facebook page? If not and if it is not in the reports or articles, then how can you insinuate that it will contain pictures of him posing with guns and drug money?

 

Forgive my willful ignorance but is not your stereotyping of Black people and your lack of any sense of respect for them as people indicative of the problem? People are perfectly free to choose who they like and don't like but when people start stereotyping entire groups on the basis of their dislikes - well there are words for that. One might balk at the presumption of someone who does this to lecture us on what we should know and do.

 

My description of the mindset of men like Mr. Scott is totally on point.  My objective was to paint a picture of the life many blacks lead that causes them to become in conflict with the law.  What I describe is an accurate description of the lifestyle that leads to committing crimes and being hostile to police.  My narrative does not have to be a biography of Mr. Scott's life ... it is an accurate portrayal of black men in America lost in a sea of hatred, envy, drugs,  Gangsta lifestyle, guns and thug culture that leads to their death at the hands of other black men a hundred times more often that at the hands of the police officer.    It is very likely Mr. Scott's life was heavily influenced by the morally polluted atmosphere I describe. 

 

It is not your prerogative to attempt to edit or censor what I post ... If you do not like what I post -- then there is nothing I intend to do about it... I will keep posting in this fashion or in any other fashion I wish... I notice you have a very strong authoritarian attitude directing people around as if they are inmates at a prison and you are the warden.  Also in review of your other posts I notice you display a hostile and angry bearing ... overbearing to be more exact.  Please note I do not take direction from you ... you are just a TVF member... Have a good day. 

[JDGRUEN]

19 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense. The MSM have been reporting it exactly for what it is/was:  there were peaceful protests, but these have been taken over by rioters.

 

If you say so... but I have a different opinion... 

[Slip]

5 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

 

My description of the mindset of men like Mr. Scott is totally on point.  My objective was to paint a picture of the life many blacks lead that causes them to become in conflict with the law.  What I describe is an accurate description of the lifestyle that leads to committing crimes and being hostile to police.  My narrative does not have to be a biography of Mr. Scott's life ... it is an accurate portrayal of black men in America lost in a sea of hatred, envy, drugs,  Gangsta lifestyle, guns and thug culture that leads to their death at the hands of other black men a hundred times more often that at the hands of the police officer.    It is very likely Mr. Scott's life was heavily influenced by the morally polluted atmosphere I describe. 

 

It is not your prerogative to attempt to edit or censor what I post ... If you do not like what I post -- then there is nothing I intend to do about it... I will keep posting in this fashion or in any other fashion I wish... I notice you have a very strong authoritarian attitude directing people around as if they are inmates at a prison and you are the warden.  Also in review of your other posts I notice you display a hostile and angry bearing ... overbearing to be more exact.  Please note I do not take direction from you ... you are just a TVF member... Have a good day. 

 

Indeed- a racist post.

[JDGRUEN]

1 minute ago, Slip said:

 

Indeed- a racist post.

 

Yes - the classic comeback of a person who has no counter argument ... People like you would call a tree racist ... Your labeling of RACIST falls off me like water off a duck's back... The term RACIST has lost its meaning in a Politically Correct society that has run amok with hiding from the truth by flinging out labels... People like you can never discuss the TRUTH OF THE MATTER... And what I posted is the Truth of the Matter ... Go back a few pages and see the video I posted on DOES THE TRUTH MATTER... And I suggest you just cannot handle the truth ...  

[ClutchClark]

4 minutes ago, Slip said:

 

Indeed- a racist post.

What makes that post "racist"?

 

It is a post that discusses "race", does that in and of itself make it "racist"? 

More accurately, it does not describe an entire race but only a sub-culture in America that some members of the African-American community are trapped in.

 

What makes it "racist" in your eyes? It is an expression thrown about loosely by some members of TVF and I don't understand the way it is being used.

Thanks

[Slip]

5 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

 

Yes - the classic comeback of a person who has no counter argument ... People like you would call a tree racist ... Your labeling of RACIST falls off me like water off a duck's back... The term RACIST has lost its meaning in a Politically Correct society that has run amok with hiding from the truth by flinging out labels... People like you can never discuss the TRUTH OF THE MATTER... And what I posted is the Truth of the Matter ... Go back a few pages and see the video I posted on DOES THE TRUTH MATTER... And I suggest you just cannot handle the truth ...  

 

No need to get all Tom Cruise about it.  This:
 

Quote

My narrative does not have to be a biography of Mr. Scott's life ... it is an accurate portrayal of black men in America lost in a sea of hatred, envy, drugs,

 is racist.

 

And shouting doesn't really do your 'argument' any favours.

 

[EDIT: ClutchClarke- I hope I have answered your later question with this post]

Edited September 25, 2016 by Slip

[ClutchClark]

Slip,

To be honest, you have not answered it. I still do not understand what qualifies something as "racist" .

 

Is a rap song about the African-African "experience" considered "racist"?

 

How does that differ from JDGruen?

[GinBoy2]

This is an interesting analysis of the numbers from the Washington Post.

 

I have no doubt that there are many here who love to dispute the numbers, but they are out there and we as a society need in a rational (non Tumpist) way need to understand and come to terms with what is happening, and fix it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.202c1a696597

 

Edited September 25, 2016 by GinBoy2

[ClutchClark]

1 minute ago, GinBoy2 said:

This is an interesting analysis of the numbers from the Washington Post.

 

I have no doubt that there are many here who love to disrupt the numbers, but they are out there and we as a society need in a rational (non Tumpist) way need to understand and come to terms with what is happening, and fix it

 

 

Did you intend to attach a link?

[Slip]

3 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

Slip,

To be honest, you have not answered it. I still do not understand what qualifies something as "racist" .

 

Is a rap song about the African-African "experience" considered "racist"?

 

How does that differ from JDGruen?

 

I'm not sure what to say.  If you can't see that to say that black people are 'lost in a sea of hatred, envy, and drugs' is racist, then I lack the language to explain it to you, or at least you lack the ability to understand what racism is.

[Strange]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

1 hour ago, Asiantravel said:

 

why didn't the police officer use  a taser? And if some reason that was not feasible then

why didn't the police officer shoot at one of his legs ? I don't understand why all these police officers are shooting to kill?

 

The police did not use a taser because the bad guy had a real gun with real bullets. 

 

 

And, you know, large amounts of voltage going through someones body with a gun in their hand, could easily cause unintended discharge of the firearm. 

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Did you intend to attach a link?

I did

[ClutchClark]

1 minute ago, Slip said:

 

I'm not sure what to say.  If you can't see that to say that black people are 'lost in a sea of hatred, envy, and drugs' is racist, then I lack the language to explain it to you, or at least you lack the ability to understand what racism is.

 

This is exactly the type of detail I was hoping for.

 

If a black person were to verbalize that same observation would it still be racist?

[Johnniey]

On 9/24/2016 at 9:46 AM, does said:

Most people resorting to the "racist" argument have no other argument.

One doesn't need another argument.

[Slip]

12 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

This is exactly the type of detail I was hoping for.

 

If a black person were to verbalize that same observation would it still be racist?

 

That is a very interesting question.  If a member of a minority discriminates against his own race is it still racism?  It's a bit too deep for me on a Sunday afternoon. But whatever the answer it does not excuse members of majority races behaving that way in my opinion.

 

As far as I know the poster I responded to could be a black man.  I would still take issue with his attempt to portray all black people as being the same in the way that he did.  So yes, I guess even if you are in a minority if you seek to denigrate minority group members (whether your own minority or another), then you are guilty of racism.

 

Yesterday I called you out on using racist language.  You assured me that was not your intention, so I was happy to apologise.  

 

Perhaps it all comes down to intent.

[GinBoy2]

I'm not black, I am however Hispanic, and as that in-between racial group I see both sides. I grew up in the California central valley in the 60's & 70's and can totally relate to the stop and frisk mentality of law enforcement.

 

Here I was a straight A student, headed to UC Berkley, and I could almost like clockwork expect on a weekend to be stopped and frisked at least once.

 

I have  on many occasions described my youthful experiences with anglo friends, curiously none of them have ever been thrown against a wall and frisked for just walking down the street.

 

Thankfully I was never shot, but I think the African American experience is mine x100