Trump may not have paid income tax for 18 years

[Andaman Al]

This is like a hamster wheel and is becoming pointless as people refuse to learn what is going on. Yes there are legal tax loopholes, BUT as his businesses were failing, Trump moved his personal money out, put other peoples money in (including the banks), then let it all crash. He did not lose ANY money. Then he claimed a billion dollar loss turning it in to personal tax credits. It may be a legal loop hole but if you were one of the people that went bust to pay for him to have a billion dollar tax credit then I doubt you would consider this man has the integrity to be President.

 

Even more scary now is realising that if this piece of scum becomes President, he will put Giuliano and Christie in at the highest level appointments in his administration.

 

Is he a smart, genius businessman to get 3000-4000 companies to do work for him and when the work is complete and they have paid for all the resources he tells them, 'I am not paying you, if you want me to pay you then sue me'? Do those of you who blindly support him believe that?

 

This tax issue of a billion dollars represents many many businesses failing and going Bankrupt as a result of what he did. He did not use the tax credits to pay them back, he put it in his own pocket. The mind boggles how some of you see him fit to be President.

 

 For the life of me I cannot work out why this excuse for a human is still standing.

[TooPoopedToPop]

From what is known so far, Trump didn't break any laws or game the system illegally.

He didn't have to; the IRS has loopholes for the very rich.

It's the working stiffs who pay the taxes in the USA.

[OMGImInPattaya]

44 minutes ago, StevieH said:

 

well this is it. the defence they're mounting of "IT WASN'T STEALING, IT WAS LEGAL!" while technically correct kind of looks a bit foolish when you consider that the taxes he's avoiding are taking money away from schools, troops, cops, firefighters, roads - all that critical infrastructure that non-billionaire americans rely on to live their lives.

 

so keep telling yourselves trump wasn't stealing. keep being impressed by a con man who has screwed over those he now considers his base. but taking money away from kids, cops and the poor doesn't make you "smart". it makes you scum.

 

 

Too bad the socialists is out of the race...looks like you'll have to hold your nose and vote for Ms. Goldman Sachs.  

[OMGImInPattaya]

2 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

This is like a hamster wheel and is becoming pointless as people refuse to learn what is going on. Yes there are legal tax loopholes, BUT as his businesses were failing, Trump moved his personal money out, put other peoples money in (including the banks), then let it all crash. He did not lose ANY money. Then he claimed a billion dollar loss turning it in to personal tax credits. It may be a legal loop hole but if you were one of the people that went bust to pay for him to have a billion dollar tax credit then I doubt you would consider this man has the integrity to be President.

 

Even more scary now is realising that if this piece of scum becomes President, he will put Giuliano and Christie in at the highest level appointments in his administration.

 

Is he a smart, genius businessman to get 3000-4000 companies to do work for him and when the work is complete and they have paid for all the resources he tells them, 'I am not paying you, if you want me to pay you then sue me'? Do those of you who blindly support him believe that?

 

This tax issue of a billion dollars represents many many businesses failing and going Bankrupt as a result of what he did. He did not use the tax credits to pay them back, he put it in his own pocket. The mind boggles how some of you see him fit to be President.

 

 For the life of me I cannot work out why this excuse for a human is still standing.

Your complaint seems to be with the tax and bankruptcy codes...which candidate has been in government for the past 30 years and had the power to do revise the codes if there were inequities in them? Seems to me you should be writing your Congressperson instead of bagging on Trump.

[Andaman Al]

Just now, OMGImInPattaya said:

Your complaint seems to be with the tax and bankruptcy codes...which candidate has been in government for the past 30 years and had the power to do revise the codes if there were inequities in them? Seems to me you should be writing your Congressperson instead of bagging on Trump.

well it seems to me you didn't even read my post at all. What part of Trump lied, deceived and made others bankrupt do you categorise under a complaint about tax codes. You have all been hypnotised we may as well prohibit any further discussion on Trump on this board as it is impossible for rational debate and therefore a movement in position to take place. The US is totally screwed, and unfortunately that will have a very bad effect on my own assets. Damn you all for being so utterly stupid.

[amykat]

5 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Let's say you are right. It still makes him an incredibly SUCCESSFULLY con man. Not paying any taxes legally sounds pretty smart to me

 

Did you like OJ Simpson because he was an incredibly successful murderer too?

[55Jay]

I'm not dismissing Trump's deplorable behavior, but if he's done something illegal all these years, IRS would be leaking like a sieve and the media would be going ape shit.

 

Instead, what we have is wishful thinking by political hack "reporters", spun to manipulate Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Citizen, who the media also considers "Low Info, Emotional Dopes".

 

This EuroNews JournoBoob even says it wasn't illegal, then dismisses that fact and carries on with his salacious regurgitation of wishy washy terms like "May have" and "Could have", suggesting Trump has somehow "played with the tax rules.     They trot out the big dollar amounts intending to foment $hock and disgust among the little people.  They characterize  carrying loss forward into out year tax returns, as some sort of exotic, underhanded tactic reserved for the rich with expensive, tricky accountants and tax attorneys.   They characterize this story as a "revelation", and are working overtime to sell it to The Dopes.

 

If Trump handles this correctly (which he probably won't), this scheme will back fire on the media.  All the sudden, they'll be seen as the underhanded ones attempting to manipulate The Dopes, and when that crystallizes, they'll bury this story faster than Hillary's IT Geek typed  C:\DEL *.*    

 

Yup, this could easily end up as yet another arrow in Trump's quiver when he says the media is dishonest and rigged.  

Edited October 4, 2016 by 55Jay

[OMGImInPattaya]

23 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

well it seems to me you didn't even read my post at all. What part of Trump lied, deceived and made others bankrupt do you categorise under a complaint about tax codes. You have all been hypnotised we may as well prohibit any further discussion on Trump on this board as it is impossible for rational debate and therefore a movement in position to take place. The US is totally screwed, and unfortunately that will have a very bad effect on my own assets. Damn you all for being so utterly stupid.

Ahh...so we have finally reached the nub of the issue...it's not about the future course of the nation and kind of country our grandchildren will inherit...it's all about YOU YOU YOU and your financial wellbeing. So who's the selfish greedbag now?

Edited October 4, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[Neurath]

Oh my, look at what the Golden Boy managed to do:

 

"The eye-popping figure [1 billion dollars] would amount to almost 2 percent of all so-called net operating losses claimed by all American taxpayers that year". http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

The average operating loss claimed by ALL other taxpayers was $97,600. 

 

If it was done cleanly then just release the returns and let's have a look. He won't because it wasn't. He's a big fat leach sucking the blood of the public. A big whining corporate and personal welfare queen. It's not illegal to go to a party and shove ALL the pies down your fat gullet either. However, it is despicable. That's him. Despicable, greedy and gaudy and happy to let others carry the tax burden that puts uniforms on our troops kids in our schools.

[55Jay]

3 minutes ago, Neurath said:

Oh my, look at what the Golden Boy managed to do:

 

"The eye-popping figure [1 billion dollars] would amount to almost 2 percent of all so-called net operating losses claimed by all American taxpayers that year". http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

The average operating loss claimed by ALL other taxpayers was $97,600. 

 

If it was done cleanly then just release the returns and let's have a look. He won't because it wasn't. He's a big fat leach sucking the blood of the public. A big whining corporate and personal welfare queen. It's not illegal to go to a party and shove ALL the pies down your fat gullet either. However, it is despicable. That's him. Despicable, greedy and gaudy and happy to let others carry the tax burden that puts uniforms on our troops kids in our schools.

Well, Donald Trump isn't your "average" tax payer, so it's the NY Times trying to boil it down to false comparisons in order to foment and incite the dopes.  Seems to be working.    

 

He's a rank amateur compared to the biggest and worst one known as the US Government. 

[OMGImInPattaya]

6 minutes ago, Neurath said:

Oh my, look at what the Golden Boy managed to do:

 

"The eye-popping figure [1 billion dollars] would amount to almost 2 percent of all so-called net operating losses claimed by all American taxpayers that year". http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

The average operating loss claimed by ALL other taxpayers was $97,600. 

 

If it was done cleanly then just release the returns and let's have a look. He won't because it wasn't. He's a big fat leach sucking the blood of the public. A big whining corporate and personal welfare queen. It's not illegal to go to a party and shove ALL the pies down your fat gullet either. However, it is despicable. That's him. Despicable, greedy and gaudy and happy to let others carry the tax burden that puts uniforms on our troops kids in our schools.

So we can put down for Hillary then  

[Chicog]

I blame the system he's exploiting, and it's up to the politicians to fix that (but they won't).

But what is galling is the litany of tweets the hypocrite has put out about others doing the same thing.

 

[55Jay]

19 minutes ago, Chicog said:

I blame the system he's exploiting, and it's up to the politicians to fix that (but they won't).

But what is galling is the litany of tweets the hypocrite has put out about others doing the same thing.

He shoots from the hip to satisfy the base..... the foot dragging on this tax returns is a rare moment where he realized he's painted himself into a corner.  Like the birther issue.  He spun that at the last debate into a valuable, public service.  Wow! 

[amykat]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

 

Among all his vacuous claims to making America great again and other, pumped-up, catchy jingosim, has he ever mentioned tax reform?

 

Donald has one important tax reform goal on his list and this is a quote from his website:

 

The Trump Plan will repeal the death tax

 

After a lifetime of no income tax ...he needs to finish his life with a great coup d"etat !!

[keemapoot]

14 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

Donald has one important tax reform goal on his list and this is a quote from his website:

 

The Trump Plan will repeal the death tax

 

After a lifetime of no income tax ...he needs to finish his life with a great coup d"etat !!

 

I think you may have meant coup de grace, but hey, you are probably right, if he is elected it will be a hostile takeover of the USA. 

[amykat]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

 

So im scum for trying to save as much as possible by utilizing the tax code legally? I don't agree, but you can always pay more tax if you feel like its a charity. 

 

If people don't like it, then they need to change some laws and not accuse the people following the law and utilizing the tax code legally of being scum. 

 

Dems have been knowing about this for the last 8 years (and longer) and have not done anything about it. What makes you think Hillary will be able to do something? Her impeccable character?

 

Honestly can not see how doing something legally as a businessman is considered scummy. Honest to god 99% of us are probably doing it now, and completely happy with it. 

 

No, you are NOT SCUM, but you are not doing the SAME thing.  First of all what Mark Cuban in the video above explained, and some tax experts think happened, is that Trump put in to "whatever" deal let's say 10% of his own money (so $90 million) and he borrowed 90% ($810 million) in the 1990s.  This deal was eventually bankrupted, renegotiated, debt forgiven ...In the 1990s there were some tax laws for real estate developers specifically that allowed them to take this forgiven debt as a tax loss as if it was their own money that they lost.  Then he can use this year after year to write off income that he earns ...so he can earn 900 million dollars TAX free to use up that credit so to speak.   Remember that people like Trump, they lobby lawmakers to get these loopholes made for them.

 

Also, other Billionaires, often speak about their responsibility to pay taxes, because they realize they did not create all their wealth alone. They credit the United States for helping them. The fact that they used our infrastructure in various ways, our rule of law, our contract law, patent law, our educated workforce, and many other things.  Trump's claim to fame seems to be using all things against us ...you really should read that Atlantic article in a link above, it is a good outline of Trump's life if you are open to hearing about it.

 

 

[amykat]

13 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

 

I think you may have meant coup de grace, but hey, you are probably right, if he is elected it will be a hostile takeover of the USA. 

 

 

Oops. ...yes, that is what I meant ....

[baboon]

8 hours ago, tonray said:

Personally there is nothing wrong with what he did as long as it was legal. 

 

The problems lie in two areas:

 

1) He claims to be a consummate businessman when in reality he is a risk taker with other people's money. Your tax dollars become the other people's money after he wins. Shutting down trade agreements and saying screw the rest of the world...your money at risk, not his.

 

2) The spectre of losing a boatload of other people's money AND getting a personal tax benefit from doing so is likely what has kept him from releasing his returns. 

 

He is a carnival barker and nothing more.

 

8 hours ago, tonray said:

Personally there is nothing wrong with what he did as long as it was legal. 

 

The problems lie in two areas:

 

1) He claims to be a consummate businessman when in reality he is a risk taker with other people's money. Your tax dollars become the other people's money after he wins. Shutting down trade agreements and saying screw the rest of the world...your money at risk, not his.

 

2) The spectre of losing a boatload of other people's money AND getting a personal tax benefit from doing so is likely what has kept him from releasing his returns. 

 

He is a carnival barker and nothing more.

 

8 hours ago, tonray said:

Personally there is nothing wrong with what he did as long as it was legal. 

 

The problems lie in two areas:

 

1) He claims to be a consummate businessman when in reality he is a risk taker with other people's money. Your tax dollars become the other people's money after he wins. Shutting down trade agreements and saying screw the rest of the world...your money at risk, not his.

 

2) The spectre of losing a boatload of other people's money AND getting a personal tax benefit from doing so is likely what has kept him from releasing his returns. 

 

He is a carnival barker and nothing more.

"He is a carnival barker and nothing more."

 

That is the way I see it too. If Vince McMahon was running instead of the Donald, I bet he would be identical. 

[baboon]

^^

What is the matter with this damn quote function?

[dunroaming]

I think even Trump is not dumb enough to openly admit that he "cheated" the system.  He does like to boast that he pays the least amount of contribution possible and for a businessman that is par for the course.  As a candidate for POTUS it is something anyone with a brain would keep their mouth shut about.

 

There is another side to this. $916,000,000 is an enormous amount of money for a capable businessman to lose.  Fortunately for Trump daddy left him lots to squander.  Unless of course Trump was declaring such a massive loss to avoid paying tax for the next 18 years, playing the system as it were? 

[Neurath]

2 hours ago, 55Jay said:

Well, Donald Trump isn't your "average" tax payer,

Yeah. He doesn't pay tax

[Dagnabbit]

7 hours ago, Silurian said:

 

Not really up to me to say. Let the IRS climb up his behind and find out. Or better yet, let Trump release his tax returns for the last 20 years and let qualified people determine that.

 

Anyway, I was not stating whether what Trump did was legal or not. I was stating that one can't call the NY Times hypocritical when using a business loss to keep the company running while Trump uses a business loss for personal gain. There is a BIG difference there. You might want to re-read what I wrote. It had nothing to do with legality or proper payment of taxes. It had to do with who benefits.

 

You replied but you missed the majority of the questions.

 

Here they are again:

 

7 hours ago, Dagnabbit said:

 

So are you saying Trump did something illegal?

Or that he should follow his conscience instead of the law?

If the latter, perhaps you can give some other examples of companies using conscience driven tax policies.

Or perhaps regale some tales of when you overpaid taxes because it was 'the right thing'.

I wont hold my breath.,,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Trump paid what he had to. All companies do that. If you disagree - find me some that pay more...

Edited October 4, 2016 by Dagnabbit

[Andaman Al]

6 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

 

You replied but you missed the majority of the questions.

 

Here they are again:

 

 

Trump paid what he had to. All companies do that. If you disagree - find me some that pay more...

Nope!

 

if he would not have artificially created this loss then he would have saved hundreds of small companies that he refused to pay from going out of business. Tax avoidance is perfectly legal, however what he did was reprehensible and the way in which he did it was totally outrageous. Instead of looking at it so simplistically "trump made a loss and claimed it back on tax-it was legal whats the problem' ! Try looking at what actually happened during the situation that HE created to turn a business loss into a personal tax gain and the number of Americans whose entire futures were sent to the garbage heap as a result. And the fact is that Trump didn't give a crap for any of those hard working Americans.

 

I try to pay as little tax as possible, but if that was at the expense of selling out my contractors and making hundreds of my staff lose their jobs and unable to pay their mortgages, whilst what I may be doing might be termed legal (on the tax side) the rest is reprehensible and morally corrupt and should disqualify me from being President of the local students union let alone POTUS.  

 

Yeah Trump, he is a 'genius' right, so was Blofeld in James Bond.

[Thaidream]

Donald Trump is a narcissistic meglomaniac that will do nothing for the middle class or the poor. He used the tax code to his advantage and also eminent domain to force an elderly lady in Atlantic City to sell her family home so he could build a parking lot. He has used bankruptcy laws to close casinos and hotels so he could fire people without paying the proper benefits and severance. This is a man who is selfish and thinks only of his personal gain. He will put America 'on sale' so he and his family can personally benefit from the proceeds.

He has no plan; he has no vision; and he will not be elected. He is finished because Americans are wising up to his lack of ethics and depth. His only plan is to build walls to nowhere and deport 11 Million people. Goodbye Donald.

[Andaman Al]

4 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Ahh...so we have finally reached the nub of the issue...it's not about the future course of the nation and kind of country our grandchildren will inherit...it's all about YOU YOU YOU and your financial wellbeing. So who's the selfish greedbag now?

Believe me I am totally not interested and the USA can self choose to go to hell in a hand basket. Just don't drag the rest of the world in to it. My assets ARE for my grandchildren and I pay taxes to improve the country I live in. I see you are interested in your country, is that why you choose to live in Thailands sex capital?

Edited October 4, 2016 by Andaman Al

[Thaidream]

For the American voter and the World- it is about  financial security and physical security.  Donald Trump would destroy everything Americans have worked for as well as taking down the World economy because of his self centered approach to everything. It is about the future course of America and the World and about our children and grandchildren. Do you really want a President who denigrates women; shows a racist trend towards people of color and other nationalities and makes fun of the disabled. His rhetoric alone and temperament shows he could never represent the qualities of America. Not only will Trump never make America great again he will destroy America's standing in the World and put America on sale.

I could never vote for someone like Trump who is so divisive and selfish.  While Clinton is not an ideal candidate when compared to Trump she  is America's only choice. 

[Chicog]

3 hours ago, baboon said:

^^

What is the matter with this damn quote function?

 

Click on the offending quote and then Ctrl+RightClick allows you to remove it.

 

Stumped me for ages then some kind chap came up with the answer in the support forum.

[boomerangutang]

6 hours ago, Strange said:

How is it cheating if its completely legal? 

HOW IS IT CHEATING IF ITS LEGAL?

 

There are many ways to cheat which are legal.  If I take your 19 yr old daughter out on a date and promise not to get sexual with her. But then I get her drunk and have sex, that's cheating, because I promised I wouldn't do something which I then did.

 

If I hire you to build a carport for me, and we agree on three payments, the final of which is to be paid upon completion.  You finish the job. I say it's unsatisfactory (you used the wrong shade of green paint), I don't pay the final third of what was promised.  It's legal, according to Donald Trump (he's done that sort of thing thousands of times, put hundreds of contractors out of business in Atlantic City alone) ....but it's cheating.

 

If I buy a bottle of juice and give the sales clerk Bt.500, and she mistakenly gives me change for Bt.1,000, I can walk out the store Bt.500 baht richer.  That's not illegal, but it's cheating.  It's the type of thing Trump would do, except on much larger scale.  Would you like more examples?

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

There are many ways to cheat which are legal.  If I take your 19 yr old daughter out on a date and promise not to get sexual with her. But then I get her drunk and have sex, that's cheating, because I promised I wouldn't do something which I then did.

 

If I hire you to build a carport for me, and we agree on three payments, the final of which is to be paid upon completion.  You finish the job. I say it's unsatisfactory (you used the wrong shade of green paint), I don't pay the final third of what was promised.  It's legal, according to Donald Trump (he's done that sort of thing thousands of times, put hundreds of contractors out of business in Atlantic City alone) ....but it's cheating.

 

If I buy a bottle of juice and give the sales clerk Bt.500, and she mistakenly gives me change for Bt.1,000, I can walk out the store Bt.500 baht richer.  That's not illegal, but it's cheating.  It's the type of thing Trump would do, except on much larger scale.  Would you like more examples?

 

Yes, I would. Particularly where Trump breaks income tax laws. That would be good. 

[boomerangutang]

All of us, including liberals, are assuming Trump's tax statement for 1995 was legal.  Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but we don't really know.  Trump is well known for bribing officials.  He's done it in Atlantic City and in NYC and Florida and who knows where else.  How difficult would it be for a man who is chummy with mafia dons to bribe a tax reviewer?  

 

1995 was one year, and it appears he claimed $960 million in loses for that one year.  That's more than the GDP of most countries. There have been 20 years since then.  Are we to assume Trump played by the rules for the past 20 years?   If he has nothing to hide, why is he steadfastly refusing to release any tax statements from the past 20 years?   He's admitted that he pays politicians on both sides of the aisle - for favors.  He says it matter-of-factly and publicly.  If he lost nearly a billion $$s 20 years ago, how do we know he hasn't lost more than a billion for each of the years since then?

 

As my dad would say, "I would trust Trump as far as I could throw him."   He's got so many despicable characteristics, I'd have to list them alphabetically, starting with asinine and ending with zero (for the amount of decency he possesses).