ilostmypassword Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Grouse said: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/e7889048-951b-11e6-a1dc-bdf38d484582?client=safari Rather more recent! Another untrustworthy biased rag.... It's not great but it's not Armageddon either. Sorry to ruin Rock's day! Can you give us the exact name of the headline for this column. I can get to it that way. But your link runs into a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, SgtRock said: Actually, you did not. Most people accept that Merkel is the Defacto head of the EU. No need to rephrase for my benefit. Many people accept that Germany is the defacto head of the EU. Do you think that Merkels power derives from anything other than that she is Germany's leader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtRock Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 33 minutes ago, Grouse said: Good clock that! The article is from Jan 2015. Have you got Captain Hook's arm in their as well? Was it halal? Do you want a shovel ? You take numptiness to a whole new level. The article was written in Jan 2015. ECB then started QE in April 2015. Too little, too late and totally ineffective. Give up now. You are becoming an embarrassment. December 2014 Quote Sadly, QE almost feels like a bit of an irrelevance. It is a kind of last chance saloon for Europe to try and fix a monetary union that has history, political support and policy-making stacked against it. There has never been a successful monetary union that wasn’t preceded by political union http://www.georgemagnus.com/the-ecb-and-qe-in-the-last-chance-saloon/ You should try reading and working on your comprehension skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: I'm obviously an ignoramus, and so need you to spell it out. Edit - what is your definition of a "numpty". You keep talking about them and I've no idea what you mean. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/apr/04/britishidentity.features11?0p19G=c you are clearly no numpty as you consider the issues deeply! I'm not going to spell out the solution, but consider this. What if the EU made some changes for all and not a special deal for the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 An article in the Times today. Basically saying people should respect that the UK has decided to leave and shut up and stop complaining and this written from a remainer. Sums it up really. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/remainers-must-stop-the-dishonest-games-7ckht3frq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 13 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said: Can you give us the exact name of the headline for this column. I can get to it that way. But your link runs into a wall. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/e7889048-951b-11e6-a1dc-bdf38d484582?client=safari crunch looms on QE FT but you might need subscription Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 12 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: An article in the Times today. Basically saying people should respect that the UK has decided to leave and shut up and stop complaining and this written from a remainer. Sums it up really. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/remainers-must-stop-the-dishonest-games-7ckht3frq It's a good article and I agree with it. I do not agree with your conclusion though. The article is much more nuanced. I agree with Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtRock Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Mario the Banker now needs to turn into Mario the Magician Quote FRANKFURT—European Central Bank President Mario Draghi faces a delicate balancing act on Thursday: reassuring investors that he can boost the ECB’s €1.7 trillion ($1.87 trillion) stimulus again but without revealing how he plans to do so. What a masterstroke. Quote Investors are increasingly nervous about what happens after that date. Many worry that, after years of unprecedented stimulus, the world’s central bankers are running out of tools to bolster growth and inflation. Not running out of tools. Have run out of tools. For the heads in the heads in the sand Brigade Quote The ECB is expected to leave its policy mix unchanged for a fifth straight meeting this week, confirming it will continue to purchase €80 billion a month of mainly government bonds until at least March. There is that magic word that morphed from October to March very quietly. http://www.wsj.com/articles/draghi-faces-delicate-balancing-act-at-ecb-meeting-1476816071 The can could be kicked further down the road in March, that is always a possibility. However, the further the can is kicked, the harder it will hit the brick wall. Add a little dollop of a failed DB and the mix produced will be explosive to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 14 minutes ago, Grouse said: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/apr/04/britishidentity.features11?0p19G=c you are clearly no numpty as you consider the issues deeply! I'm not going to spell out the solution, but consider this. What if the EU made some changes for all and not a special deal for the UK? If EU politicians reduced their salaries to those payable to MPs in their own countries/reduced their pensions to those provided by most companies in their own countries/rid themselves of so many examples of a complete waste of tax payers money/realised that the EU should be a 'market force' rather than an something they use for their own empire building/realised that 'free movement' is not popular amongst the poorly paid etc. etc. - then I'd support them 100%. But they've made it very clear that they have no intention of doing this and have no intention of understanding/recognising the reasons why the brexit vote happened, and that the electorate in other EU countries may well come to the same conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: If EU politicians reduced their salaries to those payable to MPs in their own countries/reduced their pensions to those provided by most companies in their own countries/rid themselves of so many examples of a complete waste of tax payers money/realised that the EU should be a 'market force' rather than an something they use for their own empire building/realised that 'free movement' is not popular amongst the poorly paid etc. etc. - then I'd support them 100%. But they've made it very clear that they have no intention of doing this and have no intention of understanding/recognising the reasons why the brexit vote happened, and that the electorate in other EU countries may well come to the same conclusion. I don't think that really stands up. I agree there is far too much waste and that needs sorting out but I don't think that comes in the top 5 issues for most leavers I think free movement is an issue that is widely recognised. That's one area where the regulations for the entire EU could be changed IMHO. Why do you think EU leaders are not listening? Mrs May has caused some anger it's true. However it is crucially important for many leaders that the EU works. If that requires change so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 18 minutes ago, SgtRock said: Mario the Banker now needs to turn into Mario the Magician What a masterstroke. Not running out of tools. Have run out of tools. For the heads in the heads in the sand Brigade There is that magic word that morphed from October to March very quietly. http://www.wsj.com/articles/draghi-faces-delicate-balancing-act-at-ecb-meeting-1476816071 The can could be kicked further down the road in March, that is always a possibility. However, the further the can is kicked, the harder it will hit the brick wall. Add a little dollop of a failed DB and the mix produced will be explosive to say the least. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaihome Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I find this discussion on the roles of the government versus parliament very interesting. Was wondering if anyone had done an analysis to see how each constituency voted and if there were enough in favor (regardless of its member's personal preference ) to pass an act to invoke article 50. My understanding is the voting, both for and against was rather regionalized. TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Just now, Grouse said: I don't think that really stands up. I agree there is far too much waste and that needs sorting out but I don't think that comes in the top 5 issues for most leavers I think free movement is an issue that is widely recognised. That's one area where the regulations for the entire EU could be changed IMHO. Why do you think EU leaders are not listening? Mrs May has caused some anger it's true. However it is crucially important for many leaders that the EU works. If that requires change so be it. Firstly, those in charge of the EU have made no attempt to consider any change - other than saying that perhaps we should think about change , in other words they have no intention of changing anything important. Secondly, the population of wealthier countries are (I agree) mostly unhappy about free movement - and yet as far as I can make out, this is the most important thing that cannot be deviated from on the EU rule book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtRock Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 7 minutes ago, Grouse said: ? And there you have it folks. The highly intelligent response of a person that likes to label others as numpties. A big round of applause for the biggest numpty of them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 9 minutes ago, thaihome said: I find this discussion on the roles of the government versus parliament very interesting. Was wondering if anyone had done an analysis to see how each constituency voted and if there were enough in favor (regardless of its member's personal preference ) to pass an act to invoke article 50. My understanding is the voting, both for and against was rather regionalized. TH That would be interesting! However, in a parliamentary democracy, I don't think members are, or should, be bound by the views of their constituents as if it were a local plebiscite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 24 minutes ago, SgtRock said: Mario the Banker now needs to turn into Mario the Magician What a masterstroke. Not running out of tools. Have run out of tools. For the heads in the heads in the sand Brigade There is that magic word that morphed from October to March very quietly. http://www.wsj.com/articles/draghi-faces-delicate-balancing-act-at-ecb-meeting-1476816071 The can could be kicked further down the road in March, that is always a possibility. However, the further the can is kicked, the harder it will hit the brick wall. Add a little dollop of a failed DB and the mix produced will be explosive to say the least. Its such a shame. I've gone from hoping the EU reforms - to realising that the people involved have no intention of reducing their own personal wealth and power base. If the EU elite are unable to hold the EU together. resulting in a collapse - then perhaps this would be better than them refusing to accept any change . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Firstly, those in charge of the EU have made no attempt to consider any change - other than saying that perhaps we should think about change , in other words they have no intention of changing anything important. Secondly, the population of wealthier countries are (I agree) mostly unhappy about free movement - and yet as far as I can make out, this is the most important thing that cannot be deviated from on the EU rule book? Well, as I say, where there's a will there's a way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, SgtRock said: And there you have it folks. The highly intelligent response of a person that likes to label others as numpties. A big round of applause for the biggest numpty of them all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Grouse said: That would be interesting! However, in a parliamentary democracy, I don't think members are, or should, be bound by the views of their constituents as if it were a local plebiscite. Whereas I entirely disagree if the government has finally agreed to a referendum to make the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtRock Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Its such a shame. I've gone from hoping the EU reforms - to realising that the people involved have no intention of reducing their own personal wealth and power base. If the EU elite are unable to hold the EU together. resulting in a collapse - then perhaps this would be better than them refusing to accept any change . The EU is only for changing in one direction. As per Junckers September Address to the Union speech. Total Political and Monetary integration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaihome Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Grouse said: That would be interesting! However, in a parliamentary democracy, I don't think members are, or should, be bound by the views of their constituents as if it were a local plebiscite. I tend to agree that an elected representative should vote his conscience, even if that may not reflect the majority of his constituents. Keeping in mind he has to face them in the next election. The classic case in the US of this is Senator Edmonds Ross who made the decisive vote against the conviction of Andrew Jackson, going against his party. He was defeated in re-election 2 years later. Still would be an issue interesting exercise that might be used to defend parliament defeating an act to invoke article 50. TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Whereas I entirely disagree if the government has finally agreed to a referendum to make the decision. It was a referendum not a plebiscite. Referendums are, by definition advisory but plebiscites are legally binding. Latin again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 2 hours ago, SheungWan said: Should we put that in the same prediction pot as the one of you telling us that sterling was going to bounce back this October. It did bounce ... like a dead cat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 38 minutes ago, SgtRock said: The EU is only for changing in one direction. As per Junckers September Address to the Union speech. Total Political and Monetary integration. As if Juncker makes all the decisions independently of the member countries ... he's a bit player in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 UK jobless figures are at an 11 year low. So much for foreigners coming to the UK and taking UK citizens jobs? Watched Bloomberg yesterday and they showed a graph of increasing migration to the UK in recent years ... alongside increasing employment numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker69 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 UK economy 'faces prolonged weakness', Item Club report says. Britain's economy faces a "prolonged period" of weaker growth as consumer spending slows and business curbs investment, according to a report. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37674169?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 6 hours ago, daveAustin said: You must have mighty fists. With the cheapest houses around 3-400 grand, that'd be 60-80 grand less for one crappy townhouse. Pick up a streetful of them and you've saved a wedge. and you must have hallucinations if you think that because of a dip in Sterling streetfuls of houses are suddenly for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Grouse said: Well, as I say, where there's a will there's a way That's pretty much a precis of the remainer position on this, and it's based on precisely nothing. One of the biggest shocks pre-referendum for the UK was the intransigence of top EU officials. But Juncker's post-referendum state of the union speech put us all in the picture: Individual member states are not to be allowed to interfere with the unification project. I think Dick sums up some of the personal motivations quite nicely. The EU will only change when it's forced to do so due to catastrophic events, probably sometime next year. But we're better off on our way out of the door by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Grouse said: It was a referendum not a plebiscite. Referendums are, by definition advisory but plebiscites are legally binding. Latin again. It was a referendum the result of which the government stated it would abide by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, Khun Han said: It was a referendum the result of which the government stated it would abide by. And is enshrined in law where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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