Hong Kong activist Joshua Wong 'detained in Thailand'

[Publicus]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChee said:

The boy is 19 and naive enough to believe the facts doesn't exist

Hong Kong belongs to China ; the fact it got a century under a British rule does not make it British or anything else . It belonged to the Chinese and is returned to the Chinese

Joshua if he truly believed in his aspirations for HK should understand governing 7 million in HK and wanting to make a real change in today's world doesn't involve hunger strikes etc

HK is an extremely practical society and while they have being identified as Chinese , they are Chinese with southern roots and you can see in the last protest while they clearly won some supporters , most HK were annoyed the Main Streets were blocked and transport diverted and if it spanned longer , the locals will be really annoyed as presenting your ideas is vastly different from obstructing way of life

He's 19, he has time to turn and join the CCP youth wing and try to influence things ...what people are forgetting is his party won a small % of the votes and can do little now

If he is strategic and climb up the ranks of the CCP he can influence policies that impacts millions in a province but he is clearly diverted in his views that protests is the way to go

In any Asian country , protest is the least effective way of getting your views heard.


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Hong Kong millennials and other demographic and socio-economic groups in HKG want democracy. The want a direct and open voice in an open government that is accountable to the people in whose name it acts (or does not act).

 

That's never been the Chinese way so something is going to have to give. It's called independence. Sovereign independence of Hong Kong. Same as Taiwan has. Chinese democracy in Chinese HKG right here in Asia, same as in Taiwan where they no longer consider themselves Chinese. Hell, in HKG they consider themselves "Hongkongers" who are descendents of China modified by their British experience. Neither factor can be dismissed, especially dismissed arbitrarily or summarily, i.e., on the basis of race/genetics.

 

Your CCP dictatorship is not eternal. It's not even permanent in secular terms. It is transitory from feudalism to the equivalent of the 19th century factory based industrialism of the West. There are more stages to experience and to surpass. However, CCP has showed unmistakably it cannot go there nor can it get there under its own power or systems.

 

Youse guyz can lead, or you can follow, or youse can get out of the way. Prefer the latter thx although it is clear it's going to take a strong shove to move you aside.

[taiwanatoa]

 

 

 

 

Interview with former New Zealand Prime Minister Jim Bolger

 

http://prachatai.org/english/node/6627?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+prachataienglish+(Prachatai+in+English)

He's so incredibly polite and careful about what he says, but it's obvious what his advice is.

[LawrenceChee]

The reality is 100,000 have spoken and this has been the rights given to the HK people in the transition back to the China

100,000 has acted on their opinions and beliefs and while China has allowed that to happen, we should also understand 6.9 didn't participate and we should respect their wishes too that protests should not hinder way of life or business. Ignoring that goes against the tenants of freedom and democracy right ?

The fact that there is no roaring tanks etc has disappointed many of the fanatics but it shows the maturity in the CCP in adapting to modern day social media and much of this is influenced by the youth wings giving their advice and their perception on the ground. Yeap it's CCP and of course they had their youth among the ranks of Joshua listening to the comments and trying to understand what do they really want ?

Another poster mentions the ineffectiveness of the youth wings, I disagree as a participant of it in the past that much of it has changed and opinions matter now to the leadership

The recent changes to climate policies, adopting slower growth and recent changes in police management are all examples of how the youth wing influenced those

The old cultural aspects remains where the old dispenses advice whether they are wanted or not, this happens to me now that I am officially out of the youth wing by default of age and still asked for my opinions by the youths there

It's clear to me however the newer generation of CCP members want change but not what the west perceives it to be ....again it will happen at a pace they are comfortable with

Joshua should have joined them and if he is able to work through the politics of it and manage to influence policies that affect the pearl delta region , he would have made a bigger impact

This solo acts of defiance against government is silly a youthful waste of energy.

The world doesn't universally want democracy as the west believes it to be.

If it was that effective , the middle eastern states liberated would have embraced that instead of the various states of anarchy now that depicts the lack of understanding by the west of local cultural nuances

The ability to cast a vote is not taken in the same context in the east .

Most Asians shudder at the thought of wasting time of the day at the polls voting for either idiot Hiliary or Trump ; it's an irony where the current news state is what "shit" Trump can come up with daily vs "HC" is really not that bad.

If this is the poster child of democracy and what it represents , you can see why the east mocks at it silently and thinks it's garbage

The recent voting % in USA also suggest that there is huge percentage that doesn't care about politics and doesn't bother to vote and this is similar to China.

"Liberating" them from CCP is not going to change anything ...the Chinese won't vote or really bother because they see the government as a service provider and as long as the taxes remain Low , garbage is picked up and passports are issued etc most citizens don't bother to understand the governance or what goes behind it

I suspect most Americans would struggle to explain what the Senate or congress does daily for them

Most who have no working understanding of governments will disagree but if you have seen my recent postings on Philippines, you can see those mocking my earlier views that Duarte would do trade with the Chinese / Russians are eating their hats now because it is happening ; those of us in close door discussions already know that was going to happen

I can even predict with a certain amount of certainty during mid term at the height of any Low ratings for Duerte, the Chinese have assured him he can go ahead with his ski stun and they will offer protection for him a a safe passage so that he can plant his flag on whatever rocks he wants


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[Rimmer]

A post flaming another member has been removed.

[Publicus]

7 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

 

<<>snip>

I can even predict with a certain amount of certainty during mid term at the height of any Low ratings for Duerte, the Chinese have assured him he can go ahead with his ski stun and they will offer protection for him a a safe passage so that he can plant his flag on whatever rocks he wants


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Youse guyz and your boy Digong is the amaazzzingest...

 

 

The Trump of the East. And youse guyz luv him for it.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, over at Swampy...

 

 

 

And in Hong Kong....

 

 

 

So, what do 100,000 people look like when they want democracy and independence.

 

In each instance, it's the old picture and a thousand words thingy....

Edited October 8, 2016 by Publicus
Insert photo.

[LawrenceChee]

I assume that 100,000 wants democracy ....it sounds like the 6.9 million should be ignored ???

Is that democracy ...in every society there is a divergence of views and China has allowed it

But without a majority., they should respect the views of the majority

I am sure there are pockets in USA who wants the country to turn communist maybe ? But having a viewpoint and having the politics behind it is a different story

Being on the cover of Times doesn't mean your views are right

Joshua has a different point of view doesn't mean every HK person agrees with him

China is changing the southern delta into a Pearl Delta ....if he is strategic and clever, he will get in the council and influence that

Imagine driving policies influencing 50 million people vs flying for the rest of his life going for some talks and accepted by the west perhaps but not by the Chinese ...so what is he trying to influence ....if he is really passionate about it he should be trying to influence things for 1.3 billion people then he may understand the difficulty of governance and respecting differing views and political tradeoffs

If Joshua is smart , he will know in a few years time, when he have kids ...it's likely in his generation he will see HK citizens changing out their passports for a Chinese one


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[Publicus]

Just now, LawrenceChee said:

I assume that 100,000 wants democracy ....it sounds like the 6.9 million should be ignored ???

Is that democracy ...in every society there is a divergence of views and China has allowed it

But without a majority., they should respect the views of the majority

I am sure there are pockets in USA who wants the country to turn communist maybe ? But having a viewpoint and having the politics behind it is a different story

Being on the cover of Times doesn't mean your views are right

Joshua has a different point of view doesn't mean every HK person agrees with him

China is changing the southern delta into a Pearl Delta ....if he is strategic and clever, he will get in the council and influence that

Imagine driving policies influencing 50 million people vs flying for the rest of his life going for some talks.

If Joshua is smart , he will know in a few years time, when he have kids ...it's likely in his generation he will see HK citizens changing out their passports for a Chinese one


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It's good to see the condescending and smug nature of the historical culture to be stated so openly and obviously. It's been the downfall of the ruling elites in China for a couple of thousand years.

 

It is the root cause of the "Century of Shame" which should instead be called the Century of Consequence as China had fallen severely behind and did it with a smug dismissal of the West. China is just now getting its industrial revolution.

 

The millennials of HKG know there isn't a prayer of accomplishing anything inside the Chinese Communist Party and its dictatorship of the corrupt, the wealthy, the powerful, and given their absolute contempt and detestation of democracy. The CCP paradigm is set so to try to argue otherwise is absurd.

 

One can anyway readily identify the side that's losing the argument because it's the side that says come back in ten years -- or in 30 years -- and see that you were right. The tactic is vacuous. Fact is youse guyz weren't right yesterday, you're not right today and y'all won't be right tomorrow. You're being passed right by and haven't any clue of it. 

[LawrenceChee]

True ....yours does sound better ....an idiot that lied to his allies and the entire UN to start an illegal war , a idiot that lied in front on national TV about his sexual relations and cigar play , now his Wife who has serious intergrity issues wants to be the first woman president to continue the legacies and the baboon Trump

I can see where the smugness comes from when you believe these idiotic lying presidents and president elect equates to democracy

Perfect model for the world indeed


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[Publicus]

46 minutes ago, LawrenceChee said:

True ....yours does sound better ....an idiot that lied to his allies and the entire UN to start an illegal war , a idiot that lied in front on national TV about his sexual relations and cigar play , now his Wife who has serious intergrity issues wants to be the first woman president to continue the legacies and the baboon Trump

I can see where the smugness comes from when you believe these idiotic lying presidents and president elect equates to democracy

Perfect model for the world indeed


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So will CCP do a Tiananmen in Hong Kong...

 

Yes they can. But they won't. Not in HKG.

 

My argument is that in HKG no, CCP Dictators would never do a Tiananmen in HKG. On the Mainland, CCP Tyrants would do a hundred Tiananmen Square massacres to remain in power. But not in HKG because they'd lose HKG and Taiwan together and forever.

 

The 7 million Hongkongers considered the police tear gassing Umbrella Movement demonstrators to be barbaric. Tiaianmen in HKG would be the end of the CCP there for certain. Guaranteed. They'd never do it. 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Publicus
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