Martial Law Lifted In 41 Provinces

[mitrapaap]

No problem, I'm getting used not to be part of the majority who is just bashing on this country and their people. What I probably never will get used to is the white arrogance who knows everything better than anybody else - most of the time because they have never understood anything else than themselvers. Anyhow thanks for your comment, it made me laugh

This is one of the most racist comments i have read here so far.

Not agreeing with the reasons for the coup and the martial law has nothing to do with "white arrogance bashing Thailand and its people". There are many Thais who disagree strongly with the coup, and many eminent Thai academics, most anti Thaksin while it was still fashion with todays Thaksin opponents to be on his side, have publically stated their anti coup position, people such as Tongchai Winitchakul or Giles Ungpakorn.

Do their views make them "white arrogance" as well?

Read my post, I said it was a Thai internal affair. Those you cite here are Thais, so what's the point of your question?

[ColPyat]

Read my post, I said it was a Thai internal affair. Those you cite here are Thais, so what's the point of your question?

For a lot of "white" people who have invested a lot in this country, and i am not just talking in monetary terms, Thai poilitics are their affair as well as it directly influences their life and the life of their Thai families, regradles how little welcoming Thai law is to "white" people.

In this globalised age of constantly increasing interconnecting systems there are no internal affairs anymore. The actions taken in one part of the world have direct effects on completely different parts of the world.

The coup in Thailand is seen by many pro democracy activists of the region as a very dangerous precedent. The only half hearted protest of foreign countries and especially the foreign media makes them very scared as they also have huge problems and a constantly in political affairs meddling military that might be inspired to use similar measures when faced with social and political problems within their societies. This way the Thai coup leaders have interfered with the "internal affairs" of many countries in the region.

The next coup in the region might not be that bloodless, and even in Thailand the last word has not been spoken yet. The '91 coup was also against a corrupt Prime Minister, and also welcomed at first, and bloodless. Well, until the '92 massacre.

No, the excuse of "internal affairs" in this world of today holds no ground. It is a nationalist throw back of a different age, mostly used by elites keen on holding on to power. At best, it is just an excuse for not using one's brain to think.

Edited November 30, 2006 by ColPyat

[Happy Jack]

The inclusion of Chiang Mai in the 'red' list doesn't seem to reflect the attitude of those I've been in contact with in C.M. City itself - where most people (at least in my circle of Thai friends) seemed to think (for quite some time) that Thaksin should go. The wife, of rural C.M. origin, thinks he was a big problem. Our Thai friends here (New Zealand) are largely from Isan and were also glad to see him go. So from our perspective there doesn't seem to be anyone who has a problem with his ousting. A real pity it had to be done with a coupe though, but again most of the Thai's I've spoken to figure there was no other way to get rid of him. Yeah, they are resigned to the coupe due to past experience, but the general consensus I've encountered seems to be that maybe things will get better now.

Incidentally - is it OK to be anti Taksin, pro coupe to the extent that it was an unfortunate necessity, and hopeful of a quick return to a more legitimate genuine democracy than the last government seemed to exercise, without being subject to name calling?

After all resorting to insults tends to indicate that that the insultER has run out of intelligent argument. Possibly some posters might wish to consider this.

[hammered]

The inclusion of Chiang Mai in the 'red' list doesn't seem to reflect the attitude of those I've been in contact with in C.M. City itself - where most people (at least in my circle of Thai friends) seemed to think (for quite some time) that Thaksin should go. The wife, of rural C.M. origin, thinks he was a big problem. Our Thai friends here (New Zealand) are largely from Isan and were also glad to see him go. So from our perspective there doesn't seem to be anyone who has a problem with his ousting. A real pity it had to be done with a coupe though, but again most of the Thai's I've spoken to figure there was no other way to get rid of him. Yeah, they are resigned to the coupe due to past experience, but the general consensus I've encountered seems to be that maybe things will get better now.

Incidentally - is it OK to be anti Taksin, pro coupe to the extent that it was an unfortunate necessity, and hopeful of a quick return to a more legitimate genuine democracy than the last government seemed to exercise, without being subject to name calling?

After all resorting to insults tends to indicate that that the insultER has run out of intelligent argument. Possibly some posters might wish to consider this.

That is probably a very logical position to take.

[mitrapaap]

Not agreeing with the reasons for the coup and the martial law has nothing to do with "white arrogance bashing Thailand and its people".

He probably meant some posters here whose reasons for protesting the coup are not quite the same as Thai academics'. Some views on the martial law are very white-centric, assuming that if martial law in my culture means this and that, then it's automatically the same in Thailand.

I don't think Mitrapab was being racist. He's probably "white" himself.

Exactly! Thanks a lot.

[mitrapaap]

Read my post, I said it was a Thai internal affair. Those you cite here are Thais, so what's the point of your question?

For a lot of "white" people who have invested a lot in this country, and i am not just talking in monetary terms, Thai poilitics are their affair as well as it directly influences their life and the life of their Thai families, regradles how little welcoming Thai law is to "white" people.

In this globalised age of constantly increasing interconnecting systems there are no internal affairs anymore. The actions taken in one part of the world have direct effects on completely different parts of the world.

The coup in Thailand is seen by many pro democracy activists of the region as a very dangerous precedent. The only half hearted protest of foreign countries and especially the foreign media makes them very scared as they also have huge problems and a constantly in political affairs meddling military that might be inspired to use similar measures when faced with social and political problems within their societies. This way the Thai coup leaders have interfered with the "internal affairs" of many countries in the region.

The next coup in the region might not be that bloodless, and even in Thailand the last word has not been spoken yet. The '91 coup was also against a corrupt Prime Minister, and also welcomed at first, and bloodless. Well, until the '92 massacre.

No, the excuse of "internal affairs" in this world of today holds no ground. It is a nationalist throw back of a different age, mostly used by elites keen on holding on to power. At best, it is just an excuse for not using one's brain to think.

I'm not sure whether I'm right, but I believe having read somewhere that there are about 70 million of Thais in this country and about 70,000 foreigners at the same time. So all these foreigners who invested so much and so drastically improved everything in this country make just 0.1% of the population. The industry they support most is probably the beer brewing. No farangs in rice farming and export, and almost none in garment industry.

As far as globalisation is concerned... globalisation looks like a very one way street to me so far. The west downloads and disperses all his sh... allover the world, but has rigorous restrictions on imports from other countries for the simple reason that opening their doors as wide as they ask others to open their doors would kill them in no time.

While the U.S. army attacked Irak based on facts that were more than doubtful, continental Europe was not short with critizism, but it didn't bother George Warrier Bush at all. But if Thailand reorganizes its government then the Thais should consider and listen to all the comments from outside. I wonder, I wonder....

[younghusband]

The inclusion of Chiang Mai in the 'red' list doesn't seem to reflect the attitude of those I've been in contact with in C.M. City itself - where most people (at least in my circle of Thai friends) seemed to think (for quite some time) that Thaksin should go. The wife, of rural C.M. origin, thinks he was a big problem. Our Thai friends here (New Zealand) are largely from Isan and were also glad to see him go. So from our perspective there doesn't seem to be anyone who has a problem with his ousting. A real pity it had to be done with a coupe though, but again most of the Thai's I've spoken to figure there was no other way to get rid of him. Yeah, they are resigned to the coupe due to past experience, but the general consensus I've encountered seems to be that maybe things will get better now.

Incidentally - is it OK to be anti Taksin, pro coupe to the extent that it was an unfortunate necessity, and hopeful of a quick return to a more legitimate genuine democracy than the last government seemed to exercise, without being subject to name calling?

After all resorting to insults tends to indicate that that the insultER has run out of intelligent argument. Possibly some posters might wish to consider this.

Your lack of experience of anyone who regrets Thaksin's ousting reflects your circle of friends, not the view of the Thai people.Perhaps you might like to consider this.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm throwing some cold water over these flames; temper your language or holidays may be next.

[zink]

I'm not sure whether I'm right, but I believe having read somewhere that there are about 70 million of Thais in this country and about 70,000 foreigners at the same time. So all these foreigners who invested so much and so drastically improved everything in this country make just 0.1% of the population. The industry they support most is probably the beer brewing. No farangs in rice farming and export, and almost none in garment industry.

Those numbers cannot be true. According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok#Demographics there are about 500000 legal and 400000-600000 illegal foreigners in Bangkok alone.

[younghusband]

I'm not sure whether I'm right, but I believe having read somewhere that there are about 70 million of Thais in this country and about 70,000 foreigners at the same time. So all these foreigners who invested so much and so drastically improved everything in this country make just 0.1% of the population. The industry they support most is probably the beer brewing. No farangs in rice farming and export, and almost none in garment industry.

Those numbers cannot be true. According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok#Demographics there are about 500000 legal and 400000-600000 illegal foreigners in Bangkok alone.

The OP is confusing foreigners and farang.The bulk of foreign direct investment in Thailand has come fom Japan, and on a massive scale.There seems a concerted effort on this forum to discourage serious debate so all I will say to anyone genuinely interested in the subject as a first step to read Chris Baker's and Acharn Pasuk's book on Thailand's boom.It's a little out of date but most relevant information is there.

[Plus]

Most of these immigrants are fellow Asians, the racist accusation was about whites, not them.

IJWT was talking about flames, not serious debates. What did Baker and Pasuk say about Thai boom? It's largely off topic, but if it's really "serious", it won't hurt on a slow news day.

[ColPyat]

I'm not sure whether I'm right, but I believe having read somewhere that there are about 70 million of Thais in this country and about 70,000 foreigners at the same time. So all these foreigners who invested so much and so drastically improved everything in this country make just 0.1% of the population. The industry they support most is probably the beer brewing. No farangs in rice farming and export, and almost none in garment industry.

As far as globalisation is concerned... globalisation looks like a very one way street to me so far. The west downloads and disperses all his sh... allover the world, but has rigorous restrictions on imports from other countries for the simple reason that opening their doors as wide as they ask others to open their doors would kill them in no time.

While the U.S. army attacked Irak based on facts that were more than doubtful, continental Europe was not short with critizism, but it didn't bother George Warrier Bush at all. But if Thailand reorganizes its government then the Thais should consider and listen to all the comments from outside. I wonder, I wonder....

You being "white" yourself does not deflect from my point that your statement concerning "white arrogance" is a race based statement, and therefore racist in nature. "Arrogance" or race based feelings of superiority (or inferiority) is a human condition, and not just a condition attributed to any particular race.

I have also stated that i do not speak about financial interest primarily. My point was concerning your argument about "internal affairs" that political issues here in Thailand effect our and our families lifes directly.

Your statement concerning the only industry supported by resident farang being the beer industry is another generalisation that does not stand up to reality.

There are farang in agriculture here, supporting large families often. Some of them do post on this board as well (i myself have financed and built up a farm for my family here over several years, something that should have been the responsibility of the Thai government, but those Thai governments have failed to do so.). There are people in so many professions and trades, who more often than not do support large Thai families.

I believe numeriacally there are more "white" people, and even Americans, if you care to look at the recent low approval numbers for the continuation of the Irak war, who strongly disagree with the US war in Irak than who support it, and many "white" people do not agree with the way how the basically good idea of gobalisation has been perverted into a globalisation of the multinationals only. There is just not much we can do about it.

Things are a lot more complicated than just "the west" (bad) vs. "the east" (good).

My point was though not about qualifying globalisation, but about that there is no "internal affairs" anymore in this world. Every action taken by the political leadership in one place has direct effects in other places.

And therefore we have a right to voice our opinion on what you consider "internal affairs", exactly the same right that people from the "east" have when decisions in our countries effect their lifes.

Edited December 1, 2006 by ColPyat

[sriracha john]

What was the topic of this thread, again??