Evidence of Marital Status - Only Certificate Needed?

[Barns]

Hi,

 

I'm about to submit the application for my Lao wife's UK spouse settlement visa in about a week and was just reading about people saying they submitted evidence of marital status such as joint account statements, joint tenancy agreements etc.

 

I live in rural Laos and we spent the first 3.5 years of our marriage in a house I had built in the forest since I was managing a rural ecolodge at the time so we weren't even officially part of a village and the last couple of years we've been living at her MiL's house. As a result, we have no such documents, just our marriage certificate as the sole evidence of our marital status. It is official and in English since we married in Thailand and it was issued in both Thai and English. Is this enough?

 

When I successfully applied for our kids' British citizenship and passports, I supplied a pile of photos plotting a perfect timeline with us two, the kids and other members of both my UK family and her Lao family showing it was a real relationship and I still have those photos.

 

Do people think I should include those as extra evidence just in case since it was enough to convince the UK authorities of the relationship for the kids' British citizenship & passports? Or is it better to not include too much?

 

Also, there are 64 of them and they only cover from the eldest's birth to December 2014, when I submitted the British citzenship/passport applications. If people do think I should include the photos, would it be a good idea to add some more fom between between then and now and/or to slim the pile down a bit?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Barns

[theoldgit]

In theory all you should need is the evidence that you're married.

Whilst your concerns about overwhelming the decision maker with too much evidence are well founded, they specifically advise against submitted photos, a bit of background information probably wouldn't go amiss, that maybe just a covering letter outlining your history and a bit of evidence to back up what you say.

As you're aware your children don't need visas, but mention them and maybe include the bio pages from their passports. 

[Barns]

55 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

In theory all you should need is the evidence that you're married.

Whilst your concerns about overwhelming the decision maker with too much evidence are well founded, they specifically advise against submitted photos, a bit of background information probably wouldn't go amiss, that maybe just a covering letter outlining your history and a bit of evidence to back up what you say.

As you're aware your children don't need visas, but mention them and maybe include the bio pages from their passports. 

 

Thanks Oldgit.

 

I was planning on submitting the kids' certificates of registration as British citizens, since you have to prove a a "genuine and subsisting" relationship as part of that process, plus photocopies of their bio pages as part of the application.

 

Do you reckon that, plus a written explanation in the covering letter about us and why we don't have anything such as joint tenancy agreements etc, would be enough "evidence to back up what I say"?? I have no other documents at all to back it up, however the photos clearly show me, the wife and the kids in several places around the world with members of both our families, both apart and together, so clearly do back up what I say.

 

Can they actually reject an application solely because you provided too many documents and photos even though they specifically state that you must submit all relevant documents since you are not able to submit further documents at a later date?

 

I was worried since I had seen several forum posts showing letters of refusal which specifically cited the lack of evidence of a "genuine and subsisting" relationship and said a couple of wedding photos wasn't enough. While I think this applied more to people who weren't living together and hadn't seen each other for a while, rather than people who lived together, since I can't prove we live together in any way other than my word it seemed a good idea to at least show photographic evidence that we had been together over the last 6 years...

 

It seems like sometimes they say they do want photos and sometimes they don't...it's really hard to decide whether to add photos or not. Isn't it always better to err on the side of caution?

 

 

[Barns]

On reflection, and a search of old emails, I do have some flight & hotel reservation emails so could include those.

 

However, while they do show my and my wife's names, they have the Lao names for the children (It's a long story...) since they travelled on their Lao passports so I'm thinking this might just muddy the waters and raise suspicions if they have different names on the travel documents to what they have in their British passports. Whilst you couldn't categorically prove that the other two people named on the hotel/airline reservations are our kids and they could just be other people, such a conclusion could be easily drawn.

 

Do people think it's better to include such documents or not?

[7by7]

As theoldgit says, the only evidence that you are married which is required is your marriage certificate; with an English translation, if not in English, containing:  

• confirmation from the translator that it is an accurate translation of the original document  
• the date of the translation  
• the translator's full name and signature  
• the translator's contact detail

Evidence of your relationship can be

• letters addressed to each or both of you at the same address, if any;
• your children's birth certificates, translated if not in English, which presumably name you both as parents;
• your passport with your Laos visa(s) showing your immigration status in Laos.

That plus a brief history of your relationship should, in my opinion, be sufficient; even if you do not have any letters. Certainly no need for piles of photographs. You are living with your wife, you have children together; showing that your relationship is genuine and subsisting is a lot simpler for you than for a couple who live apart.

 

Whilst I do believe that too much evidence is better than too little, there is a danger of submitting so much which the ECO doesn't need that while looking through all that s/he misses something vital! The amount of applications received and the number of ECOs means that they only have a limited time, around 10 to 15 minutes I'm told, in which to assess each application and make a decision.

 

[Barns]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As theoldgit says, the only evidence that you are married which is required is your marriage certificate; with an English translation, if not in English, containing:  

• confirmation from the translator that it is an accurate translation of the original document  
• the date of the translation  
• the translator's full name and signature  
• the translator's contact detail

Evidence of your relationship can be

• letters addressed to each or both of you at the same address, if any;
• your children's birth certificates, translated if not in English, which presumably name you both as parents;
• your passport with your Laos visa(s) showing your immigration status in Laos.

That plus a brief history of your relationship should, in my opinion, be sufficient; even if you do not have any letters. Certainly no need for piles of photographs. You are living with your wife, you have children together; showing that your relationship is genuine and subsisting is a lot simpler for you than for a couple who live apart.

 

Whilst I do believe that too much evidence is better than too little, there is a danger of submitting so much which the ECO doesn't need that while looking through all that s/he misses something vital! The amount of applications received and the number of ECOs means that they only have a limited time, around 10 to 15 minutes I'm told, in which to assess each application and make a decision.

 

 

Thanks 7x7.

 

The more I check things the more I find. I had no idea I had to include anything to do with my Lao visa, but it makes sense so i shall include copies of the annual visas for the last 9 years too now.

 

I presume copies of the relevant pages are enough or do I have to submit my original passport, as well as hers, along with the application?

 

I've already included the children's birth certificates and their British Citizenship registration documents and. as I say, the original marriage certificate was issued in both Thai and English with all the stamps on it so that should be fine.

 

I think I'm confident I have enough now without photos or airline/hotel reservations etc.

 

Thanks again.

[7by7]

10 hours ago, Barns said:

I had no idea I had to include anything to do with my Lao visa, but it makes sense so i shall include copies of the annual visas for the last 9 years too now.

 

I presume copies of the relevant pages are enough or do I have to submit my original passport, as well as hers, along with the application?

 

I always recommend including the sponsor's passport; whether for a settlement application or a visit one. This is because it shows either that the sponsor is living in the same country as the applicant or, if not, how often and when they have visited them.

 

Photocopies are fine; copy the ID page and those with the relevant visas on. From what you say it seems that you and your wife have travelled abroad together, so I'd also copy the pages of your passport with the entry/exit stamps for other countries matching those in hers. 

 

You should self certify the copies thus: "I (full name) certify that this is a true copy of page (number) of my British passport (number), (signature and date)."

 

Obviously there is no need to provide a copy of your wife's passport as she will submit the original with the application.

 

However, it is a good idea to submit copies of all other original documents submitted to ensure that the originals are returned. It appears that the entry clearance office in Bangkok don't possess a photocopier!