May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[SgtRock]

14 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

 

The problem is this all pales into comparison to what happens when Europe finally collapses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

This is something that I have been saying for a while.

 

I have repeatedly given 3 major occurrences that will happen in 2017.

 

One I will not mention as that will probably be kicked further down the road by the ECB, depending on how swift and hard the DOJ go after DB.

 

The other 2 being the upcoming elections in France and to a much greater extent the upcoming election in Germany.

 

Sky now seem to have also picked up on that whilst debating the decision by the court.

 

Quote

Could this be a blessing in disguise for Theresa May? It seems unlikely that much serious negotiation occurs before the German elections next autumn. The economic and diplomatic facts on the ground could be very different indeed.

 

http://news.sky.com/story/could-brexit-ruling-be-a-blessing-in-disguise-for-pm-theresa-may-10643668

 

I said it many times on these threads that May should delay triggering A50 as long as possible, the EU might be a totally different place by the end of 2017.

Edited November 4, 2016 by SgtRock

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Now that is very interesting and I agree. Another election though could even cause a hung parliament again. Something I think is not in the countries best interests.

 

I personally don't think that exiting the EU is in the interests of the UK but accept that many think otherwise. The important thing for me is that people go into this with their eyes wide open, with a full understanding of the implications and a proper debate ... something sadly lacking in the EU referendum.

 

 

[AlexRich]

53 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

 

The problem is this all pales into comparison to what happens when Europe finally collapses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Many seem to have bought into this "Europe collapsing" scenario, something that if it did happen would be disastrous for the UK ... the idea that your biggest trading partner can collapse and you are not affected badly (whether in or out of the EU) is a false one.

 

But back to the scenario itself. Is it not more likely that the EU will just muddle through and deal with anything that transpires? Some of the wealthiest nations on this earth are part of the EU, sorting out anything that arises is well within their means and capability.  

 

 

 

[SgtRock]

57 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

 

The problem is this all pales into comparison to what happens when Europe finally collapses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

As a follow on from my previous post.

 

Bloomberg today

 

Quote

Germany, the region’s largest economy, bolstered euro-area growth, with output rising at the fastest pace in three months and the rate of job creation at its highest in more than five years. 

 

Quote

The 19-nation currency bloc has seen a slow but steady recovery as the European Central Bank supports the economy with unprecedented stimulus.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-04/euro-area-economic-growth-marred-by-slowdown-in-french-services

 

Germany and the unprecedented stimulus by the ECB are holding the EZ together.

 

[SgtRock]

I sense another attempt by the ever pragmatic Germans, despite the best efforts and rhetoric of the A-Holes in Brussels, to soften and find a workable solution to the UK's EU exit.

 

Quote

Germany fears Britain may pull out of a key intelligence-sharing programme in May next year, a move that it says would create a “moment of weakness” in the fight against terrorism and jeopardise security across the EU.

 

Quote

As the continent remains on alert over terrorist attacks, Berlin is understood to view British intelligence as its primary contribution to European collaboration, and fears it could use future cooperation as a bargaining chip in Brexit negotiations.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/04/germany-fears-uk-may-quit-spy-programme-because-of-brexit

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes I did, did you. Did you read my post. My point is he has backtracked on his project fear. I hope they call an election and wipe of the lefty and luvvies once and for all. Don't rely on polls, as if we did, the remain would have won by a handsome margin but they lost.

 

I don't share the good news at all. The opposite. Just stuttering the process which will only cause more damage and fuel more divide.

Probably very true, but if TM had followed due process in the first place there would not have been a legal challenge or any appeal.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, Dagnabbit said:

 

The problem is this all pales into comparison to what happens when Europe finally collapses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

'Europe collapsing' - its a bit like brexit - an undefined concept.

[cumgranosalum]

On 11/4/2016 at 1:07 PM, AlexRich said:

 

Strangely the Independent today quote a recent poll suggesting the majority now in favour of staying in the EU. Perhaps it's the shambolic 'Mayhem' team with her three clueless Brexit stooges that have swayed the vote. They clearly have no plan and no idea what they are doing. 

EU "collapse" - as with Brexit it would appear that most of those promulgating this hypothesis are  completely unaware of the complexities and realities of the situation. I would take most of these "ideas" (they certainly don't qualify as opinions) with a pinch of salt.

 

meanwhile the Brexit  contradictions continue....

 

"send the message that the UK will be the most passionate, most consistent and most convincing advocate for free trade" - Theresa May in India apparently ignoring that she is at present removing the UK from one of the biggest and most valuable free trade blocks in the world ....but Tata who own Jaguar Land Rover know this all too well....

[cumgranosalum]

Who will foot the bill for all this "free-trade" or subsidised guarantees for the motor industry?

No problem...where there's a Bill.....There's a May!

[dick dasterdly]

Does anyone believe that 'behind the scenes' negotiations between the UK and EU/UK and various other countries are not already happening?

 

UK and EU citizens/subjects are living in 'interesting times'....  But then again, so are USA citizens.

[cumgranosalum]

20 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Does anyone believe that 'behind the scenes' negotiations between the UK and EU/UK and various other countries are not already happening?

 

UK and EU citizens/subjects are living in 'interesting times'....  But then again, so are USA citizens.

You mean - when Theresa May went to the EU - they met her at 1 am for a few minutes and nobody spoke to her?

That kind of behind the scenes?

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

You mean - when Theresa May went to the EU - they met her at 1 am for a few minutes and nobody spoke to her?

That kind of behind the scenes?

Yes, this proves there are no 'behind the scenes' negotiations with the EU or other countries .

 

But you answered my question, so thank you.  There obviously are some people that believe the official EU 'line' that there will be no negotiations until article 50 has been invoked.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Yes, this proves there are no 'behind the scenes' negotiations with the EU or other countries .

 

But you answered my question, so thank you.  There obviously are some people that believe the official EU 'line' that there will be no negotiations until article 50 has been invoked.

 

Unfortunately, the official EU line is indeed true. It is in their interests not to engage with the UK until Article 50 is invoked. They are rarely united on any topic but appear  to be so on this one.

 

I recall after the vote watching an interview with a Swedish EU trade minister (can't recall her name but she will be involved in the negotiations) who stated that the new trade deal between the EU and the UK could only be negotiated after the 'exit' terms have been concluded and the UK is no longer in Europe. I believe that this stance is being adhered to also much to Liam Fox's chagrin.

 

So much for they "they need us more than we need them argument". The EU do not want others to follow the UK and so are determined to make sure that the UK is seen to be worse off outside of Europe. This objective overrides any other.     

 

[HauptmannUK]

I have lived and worked in France and Germany and speak both languages reasonably well. I often watch German TV via the internet and its clear from news and political discussion programmes that the German government has become somewhat exasperated with the British government's attitude. I think when they say no special deals or concessions they actually mean it. Modern German politics is actually pretty straightforward. It does what it says on the tin. They tend not to follow the British practise of 'speaking with a forked tongue'.

I spend about half my year overseas on business - mostly in Asia these days. A lot of British people are delusional when it comes to the importance of the UK in the world. Its not the 1960s any more.

Mrs May is off on a trade mission to India this week. I'm there next week. I've been trying to set up some UK-India business collaborations for the past two years - and got nowhere so far.  The Indians are extremely difficult to negotiate with. Moreover the British are not popular in India at the moment. They don't like our visa regulations and they don't like the withdrawl of the Post Study Work Visa (which May is responsible for).  I predict she'll be treated politely but won't get far. No chance of a Free Trade Agreement unless she makes major visa concessions. Do we want to swap EU immigrants for Indian immigrants ...?

Edited November 5, 2016 by HauptmannUK

[SaintLouisBlues]

16 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

A lot of British people are delusional when it comes to the importance of the UK in the world.

Only British people about the UK?? I'd have thought that most people are delusional about the importance of their country in the world, whatever their country. You might have mentioned the current Chinese "emperor" who clearly expects the world to kowtow to him as it was expected to kowtow to former Chinese emperors.

[HauptmannUK]

7 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Only British people about the UK?? I'd have thought that most people are delusional about the importance of their country in the world, whatever their country. You might have mentioned the current Chinese "emperor" who clearly expects the world to kowtow to him as it was expected to kowtow to former Chinese emperors.

Yes, I would agree.

[Laughing Gravy]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 6:47 PM, AlexRich said:

 

I personally don't think that exiting the EU is in the interests of the UK but accept that many think otherwise. The important thing for me is that people go into this with their eyes wide open, with a full understanding of the implications and a proper debate ... something sadly lacking in the EU referendum.

 

 

Alex I think you underestimate peoples ability to understand what they believe, choose or want. I like all my friends know that, forty plus years of strangling the UK and taking away, bit by bit, its ability to feed itself, manufacture many products and  has made it become a service country. Of course I knew it wouldn't be a 'walk in the park' especially the way the EU has been set up, to control and punish anyone who dares question it. This is the great thing since the referendum. People can see the EU exactly what it is about. A group of unelected, undemocratic bunch of non British people dictating and forming a federalized Europe, telling the UK what and when to do that. the people of the UK have had enough. The EU, is so pne way thinking, it can't even see it. It arrogance will be its demise. It can't reform because it has a hidden agenda and that agenda is becoming more and more obvious. It is about taking sovereignty away and identities from the people and creating a united states of Europe.

 

I don't care what it takes to get out. We, my friends and I, who all voted out was very much aware of the EU and we were took into it, on  a lie and want out. 17 plus million also knew the same. Don't use the 'they didn't understand or know the consequences. They did. This whole post referendum has just highlighted how bad the EU is. It has not come out favourably and in fact, its reputation is even worse than before.

[happy Joe]

1 hour ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Only British people about the UK?? I'd have thought that most people are delusional about the importance of their country in the world, whatever their country. You might have mentioned the current Chinese "emperor" who clearly expects the world to kowtow to him as it was expected to kowtow to former Chinese emperors.

 

What you say is true, but most of those European countries that have dominated others at some point in their history have subsequently received a big slap that led them to more modesty.

Greece, Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Germany ... Russia also.

The same is now happening before our eyes for the UK. Seen from outside, the spectacle of some imbued with a fictitious superiority, and who think that the world still revolves around them is fascinating.

 

The time of humility is close friends, in the meantime, enjoy the showtime 

[Laughing Gravy]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 4:18 PM, Grouse said:

Where is the opposition when you need them? Corbyn? CORBYN?

As a once proud Labour supporter I am now embarrassed that this silly little man Corbyn, who hasn't got the moral conviction to stand up and be a man and say his personal views on Europe. That isn't a man I want as an MP and certainly not a leader. This man is ensuring that we have another 20 years of conservatives in power. The Labour of old (before Blair) was about the working class and workers. This man   has no morals in my opinion, if he can't have the courage and say he was for out of the EU as he had always said up until the referendum was announced. As it has been stated here many working class people voted for Brexit. Whether they have university degrees or not is irrelevant. My concern is that if n election is called then labour will lose more seats or if they don't and the conservatives had to rely on other MP's. for a majority in the house. The worst case would be 'sucking up' to the SNP and that horrible Nichola Surgeon.

 

Thanks to Corbyn there is no party that can actually challenge the Conservatives. He is about as good an opposition than a chocolate fireguard. He has sold himself out, lost any respect from me as well as many of his MP's and has a huge part to blame, for the shambles the Labour Party of today is in. I am surprised Grouse that you like or even support the man.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

We, my friends and I, who all voted out

That's 51.9% - more properly "we by a thin majority"

Fortunately, the 49.1% will still have their voice heard in the parliament vote that May witness a different majority.

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

That's 51.9% - more properly "we by a thin majority"

Fortunately, the 49.1% will still have their voice heard in the parliament vote that May witness a different majority.

Possibly, possibly not. Either way Brexit will happen I am convinced. My worry is the in fighting it is causing is not doing the country any good, the exact opposite.

The 49.1 percent had their voice heard at the referendum. It was a simple stay in or leave. That's what happens in referendums there is  a vote, a winner and loser. Not a we come second so we can dictate what we want. That seems to be a problem with those who voted remain, accepting the outcome of a simple in or out.  It was never with conditions.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Possibly, possibly not. Either way Brexit will happen I am convinced. My worry is the in fighting it is causing is not doing the country any good, the exact opposite.

The 49.1 percent had their voice heard at the referendum. It was a simple stay in or leave. That's what happens in referendums their is a vote, a winner and loser. Not a we come second so we can dictate what we want.

Nigel Farage still disagrees with you.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Nigel Farage still disagrees with you.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

I am sorry I don't read anything anymore from the BBC. I find it quite ironic you just quoting credible facts and then you mention the Bias BBC.

As much as I am sure you would love another referendum because you didn't get the result you wanted  or can't accept it (which I think you would lose again) the PM has stated numerous times, that Brexit will happen. I will be waiting to quote you on this in the future. If the PM does not  then she has committed political suicide for her, the conservatives and the country. Something that I just can't see happening.

 

That article was in May whilst then David Camreon was prime minister. A lot has happened since then and Nigel Farage has stated several times that Brexit means Brexit

Edited November 6, 2016 by Laughing Gravy
adding more info

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I am sorry I don't read anything anymore from the BBC.

Which biased media do you read?

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Which biased media do you read?

It has been discussed on numerous occasions in threads, how biased the BBC are and have been. Numerous links had been put about this. So it isn't worth discussing again.. I read many sources but I find the BBC which should and use to be a decent, reporting news network, paid for by the people, to be as bad as CNN and Fox news. They are a politically motivated news network which they should not be and have been reported to OfCom numerous times.So to your question, I read all news networks and non mainstream news to get a more balanced view and opinion. Something the BBC has lost and regarding the referendum was an absolute disgrace.

[SaintLouisBlues]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

They are a politically motivated news network which they should not be and have been reported to OfCom numerous times.

How often has OfCom upheld the complaint (as a percentage)?

[jpinx]

3 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

......  Mrs May is off on a trade mission to India this week......

 

It's nice to have some first hand feedback, but the point is that in spite of the population, India would not match the consumption of 1st world countries like Oz, who have already stated their intent to do a deal with independent UK.   The current ban by EU beauocrats on pre-talks with UK about trade is actually going to hurt the EU as well.  They think the ban sending a message to other wavering members, and they're right, but it's not the message they intend -- it's a message of just how undemocratic the EU actually is now.  There are many stories of "private meetings" about the future trading position and everyone in EU trading into UK is mightly frustrated by this ban.

[jpinx]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Possibly, possibly not. Either way Brexit will happen I am convinced. My worry is the in fighting it is causing is not doing the country any good, the exact opposite.

The 49.1 percent had their voice heard at the referendum. It was a simple stay in or leave. That's what happens in referendums there is  a vote, a winner and loser. Not a we come second so we can dictate what we want. That seems to be a problem with those who voted remain, accepting the outcome of a simple in or out.  It was never with conditions.

 

If the government doesn't like the margin of the win, why did they not stipulate a %age margin -- as they did for the Scottish referendum back in 1979, before the recent one.?

Edited November 6, 2016 by jpinx

[ilostmypassword]

52 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I am sorry I don't read anything anymore from the BBC. I find it quite ironic you just quoting credible facts and then you mention the Bias BBC.

As much as I am sure you would love another referendum because you didn't get the result you wanted  or can't accept it (which I think you would lose again) the PM has stated numerous times, that Brexit will happen. I will be waiting to quote you on this in the future. If the PM does not  then she has committed political suicide for her, the conservatives and the country. Something that I just can't see happening.

 

That article was in May whilst then David Camreon was prime minister. A lot has happened since then and Nigel Farage has stated several times that Brexit means Brexit

Actually, the original quote was from an interview conducted by a source that is banned here. But it's easy enough to look up.  And it's a quote, not a paraphrase. And you can pretty much tell that someone doesn't have much of an argument when they need to use an emoji to bolster their argument. 

As for Cameron being in power then, I guess if Farage said 2+2=4 back then, with Cameron being out of power, that no longer is necessarily the case?  What possible relevance does it have that Cameron was in power when Farage said that.

[jpinx]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, the original quote was from an interview conducted by a source that is banned here. But it's easy enough to look up.  And it's a quote, not a paraphrase. And you can pretty much tell that someone doesn't have much of an argument when they need to use an emoji to bolster their argument. 

As for Cameron being in power then, I guess if Farage said 2+2=4 back then, with Cameron being out of power, that no longer is necessarily the case?  What possible relevance does it have that Cameron was in power when Farage said that.

The bickering is blinding --  the reality is that the government set up a referendum, didn't set a margin of the win to make it valid, and then ran away from the result.