May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Ace of Pop]

Portugal.As A Nation we have been stupid with IMF loans and Europe in general. We can be poorish on our own,don't need help from outsiders ,our politicians are as bent as most.Self Serving lot. We have beautiful Marinas N Golf Links but our Fishing Ports are the same as when I left 50 years ago


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[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes, a majority of Brits are indeed mad!

 

Yes they are mad, as they see stories like this daily and wonder why they are having to pay for others when the government doesn't even look after their own. Also most have paid into a system that was supposedly there to help them in times of need.  More and more people will get angry and for those who do not understand why people voted for brexit, here are some of the answers that are in the mainstream news everyday.

 

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/558012/jungle-child-migrant-22-dating-site-real-age

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-dad-eight-who-claimed-9161234

[Laughing Gravy]

This article just says it all about the way those who are against brexit are wrong.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/726050/Britain-economy-booming-after-brexit-proof-EU-Referendum

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, Srikcir said:

That's nice for Blackpool. Hopefully such success will be sustaining for the next 3-5 years until Brexit is completed.

But even if their experience was repeated in every UK tourist destination, how meaningful would tourism revenues be in terms of contributing to total UK GDP? Historically I find a case to be made that UK tourism contributed 10% GDP and with recent GBP "tumble" might go to 15% compared to about 80% GDP for the whole services sector of which tourism is a part. The UK will need more than increase in tourism revenues to sustain a beneficial GDP growth rate when it exits the EU hedgemony.

 

 

All we need now is for someone to suggest that all UK expats in Thailand consider it their patriotic duty to duly relocate to Blackpool in order to improve the UK's financial situation.

[Laughing Gravy]

But it is stories like this that makes people angry when 700 pound a month can't be found but they can for migrants and their families.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/30/boy-with-half-a-heart-gets-benefits-taken-away-on-his-eighth-birthday-6223499/#mv-a

[Johnyo]

But it is stories like this that makes people angry when 700 pound a month can't be found but they can for migrants and their families.
 
http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/30/boy-with-half-a-heart-gets-benefits-taken-away-on-his-eighth-birthday-6223499/#mv-a

And you blame the EU for this?


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[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

And you blame the EU for this?

I never said I blame the EU for this. I blame the EU for many things.

 

My point is the migrant crises (Yes I blame the EU) is taking away lots of UK money along with lots of money we give to the EU.

 

My point is people see stories like the one I posted and think. Why can't we give money to our own first. I thought you would have grasped that concept.

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

But it is stories like this that makes people angry when 700 pound a month can't be found but they can for migrants and their families.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/30/boy-with-half-a-heart-gets-benefits-taken-away-on-his-eighth-birthday-6223499/#mv-a

 

3 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

 

And you blame the EU for this?


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If there were a Labour government in power, it's doubtful this would be happening. The same goes for denial of benefits to people who are obviously too ill to work. Apparently the conservatives think it's better to give big tax cuts to the wealthy.

[ilostmypassword]

24 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

This article just says it all about the way those who are against brexit are wrong.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/726050/Britain-economy-booming-after-brexit-proof-EU-Referendum

Despite their previous pledges, the Conservatives are ratcheting up deficit spending to stimulate the economy. I think it's a good they're doing it, but it's rather blinkered to think that this has nothing to do with the current state of the UK economy.

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

If there were a Labour government in power, it's doubtful this would be happening.

I think you maybe thinking of the Labour party of the 1970s. Certainly not the one now that calls itself Labour today.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Grouse]

Gravy, may I request with all the courtesy I can muster that you read some proper newspapers instead of these silly rags? Frankly, it's just not worth commenting on nonsense. Look at the detail behind the 0.5% per Q "booming" economy. 

 

Guitars up 40% on Denmark St ('52 reissue Strat, since you ask)- how's that for boosting consumer confidence! Most customers from EU and Far East apparently 

[Laughing Gravy]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Gravy, may I request with all the courtesy I can muster that you read some proper newspapers instead of these silly rags? Frankly, it's just not worth commenting on nonsense. Look at the detail behind the 0.5% per Q "booming" economy. 

 

Guitars up 40% on Denmark St ('52 reissue Strat, since you ask)- how's that for boosting consumer confidence! Most customers from EU and Far East apparently 

I read all sorts my good man. My point being like many posters here who are still trying to justify some sort of second referendum on Brexit or explaining a post apocalyptic financial meltdown, that there is none. whilst a small growth it certainly isn't the end of the world George Osborne described. So are you ever going to admit that the UK is not going to collapse, as many posters here have predicted and in fact you may have suggested it yourself. 

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Your understanding is fairly close but in terms of being outside the EU.

The soft brexit means remaining as part of the single market which allows tariff free trading between states belonging to the single market. Of course the elephant in the room is that this would include the free movement of labour as well as goods.

The hard brexit would mean leaving the single market and trading with the EU under WTO regulations.

As far as Canada is concerned, they have not joined the single market, that is only open to EU, EFTA and EEA member states. Up until this agreement the EU and Canada have traded under the WTO arrangement but have now created a bilateral agreement instead of the WTO tariff arrangement. In simple terms I will not charge you if you do not charge me.

This agreement has taken 7 years to set up, anyone who thinks that the UK can walk away from the UK and start tariff free trading with EU overnight is delusional. It should be borne in mind that the UK cannot start any talks until after it has left the EU. Australia has recently terminated discussion on a trade agreement because of the legal implications.

 

You're comparing apples and oranges trying to compare Canada's situation with the UK's. The UK already has tariff-free trade with the rest of the EU, and has the rather strong negotiating leverage of it's existing imports from the EU's biggest economies. And if you think German heavy industry (and French farmers ) will have no say in this, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Throw into the mix the probable change of government in Germany and the almost certain change of government in France, and it's going to be a whole new playing field in the second year of our negotiations.

[sandyf]

36 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

This article just says it all about the way those who are against brexit are wrong.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/726050/Britain-economy-booming-after-brexit-proof-EU-Referendum

'Booming' is a matter of interpretation, the 0.5% is less than previous levels but because its more that some predictions it is being taken as a great improvement.

There is little point in continually referring to forecasts that were probably a bit exaggerated, unless of course the £350 million to the NHS should remain in the public eye.

Are we also to be glad to see the increase in public sector borrowing?

[Johnyo]

I never said I blame the EU for this. I blame the EU for many things.

 

My point is the migrant crises (Yes I blame the EU) is taking away lots of UK money along with lots of money we give to the EU.

 

My point is people see stories like the one I posted and think. Why can't we give money to our own first. I thought you would have grasped that concept.

For migrant crisis you should do some further reading. The UK is just one of many countries that should be ashamed of what they have created due to their greedy foreign policy.

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[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

'Booming' is a matter of interpretation, the 0.5% is less than previous levels but because its more that some predictions it is being taken as a great improvement.

Whilst I agree it in an interpretation it certainly isn't what George Osborne predicted that is my point.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/23/post-brexit-economy-george-osborne-eu-referendum

 

Even the remain Guardian admits that.

[Laughing Gravy]

3 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

The UK is just one of many countries that should be ashamed of what they have created due to their greedy foreign policy.

If you are referring to the Iraqi, Afghanistan, Libya and the policy in Syria you may have some justification. But you should also do the research that NOT all these migrants are from these areas. it has been mentioned numerous times. Please stop watching the BBC and SKY news.

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I guess for at least one Brexiteer the topic of Nissan got a little too hot for comfort so he abandoned that and went scrabbling around for some old quotes from other companies from last July. Anyway, back to the fallout from Nissan. 'Rival carmakers are now demanding the same assurances offered to Nissan to shield them from the impact of Brexit'. ....'other exporters, including chemicals manufacturers, have set tariff-free access to the EU as a priority'. (FT Oct 29/30)

 

Nissan have explained why they're staying. A government spokesperson confirmed this. A government minister confirmed this. SheungWan can't get his head around these clarifications.

 

The reason for providing those links from July is because a remain poster was exhibiting short memory syndrome, and I could see another debating myth being established similar to the one the poster quoted above is trying to create about Nissan.

[sandyf]

11 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're comparing apples and oranges trying to compare Canada's situation with the UK's. The UK already has tariff-free trade with the rest of the EU, and has the rather strong negotiating leverage of it's existing imports from the EU's biggest economies. And if you think German heavy industry (and French farmers ) will have no say in this, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Throw into the mix the probable change of government in Germany and the almost certain change of government in France, and it's going to be a whole new playing field in the second year of our negotiations.

There was no comparison, it was a response to this point from post 288.

" Does the deal with Canada means its part of the single market without having to pay any EU fees? "

 

As I said previously, if you do not understand, do not comment.

[Khun Han]

54 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

All we need now is for someone to suggest that all UK expats in Thailand consider it their patriotic duty to duly relocate to Blackpool in order to improve the UK's financial situation.

 

Can't you at least give us the benefit of your insight into the 'Blackpool effect' on currency exchange rates?

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Whilst I agree it in an interpretation it certainly isn't what George Osborne predicted that is my point.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/23/post-brexit-economy-george-osborne-eu-referendum

 

Even the remain Guardian admits that.

I am not disputing that George Osborne was wrong but so was Boris Johnston, two wrongs do not make a right. It is time to put the misleading statements from both sides of the fence behind us and just be grateful for small mercies that he was wrong, but 'Booming', lets keep it in perspective.

[Khun Han]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

'Booming' is a matter of interpretation, the 0.5% is less than previous levels but because its more that some predictions it is being taken as a great improvement.

There is little point in continually referring to forecasts that were probably a bit exaggerated, unless of course the £350 million to the NHS should remain in the public eye.

Are we also to be glad to see the increase in public sector borrowing?

 

probably a bit exaggerated

 

ROFLMFAO

[SheungWan]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Nissan have explained why they're staying. A government spokesperson confirmed this. A government minister confirmed this. SheungWan can't get his head around these clarifications.

 

The reason for providing those links from July is because a remain poster was exhibiting short memory syndrome, and I could see another debating myth being established similar to the one the poster quoted above is trying to create about Nissan.

 

'Number 10 and Nissan both denied that the potential closure of Sunderland was discussed at the meeting between Mr Ghosn and the PM'.......'er, there is a letter written by Greg Clark, business secretary to Nissan. 'According to several people familiar with the letter........it contains the same assurances that were offered to Mr Ghosn by the PM - namely that the carmaker would face no change in its trading conditions following Britain's exit from the EU'. (FT Oct 29/30) So, so much for the above limp attempt at an explanation.

Edited October 31, 2016 by SheungWan

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

I am not disputing that George Osborne was wrong but so was Boris Johnston, two wrongs do not make a right. It is time to put the misleading statements from both sides of the fence behind us and just be grateful for small mercies that he was wrong, but 'Booming', lets keep it in perspective.

 

small mercies

 

That's an interesting way of describing the difference between economic recession and economic growth.

 

Still ROFLMFAO

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

All we need now is for someone to suggest that all UK expats in Thailand consider it their patriotic duty to duly relocate to Blackpool in order to improve the UK's financial situation.

What many seem to overlook is that this booming economy that we hear about could very well force large numbers of expats worldwide back into the UK. This wouldn't help the immigration figures and put quite a strain on the NHS and other services.

My brother has had a serious heart condition for over 10 years but fortunately for the NHS he has been treated by the Canadian health service, the NHS certainly wouldn't want many like him turning up on their doorstep. Reality is of course he wouldn't survive the relocation.

[Khun Han]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There was no comparison, it was a response to this point from post 288.

" Does the deal with Canada means its part of the single market without having to pay any EU fees? "

 

You tried to compare the difficulties of Canada getting an agreement (took 7 years) with difficulties facing a UK agreement. They are very different scenarios.

 

[Khun Han]

11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

'Number 10 and Nissan both denied that the potential closure of Sunderland was discussed at the meeting between Mr Ghosn and the PM'.......'er, there is a letter written by Greg Clark, business secretary to Nissan. 'According to several people familiar with the letter........it contains the same assurances that were offered to Mr Ghosn by the PM - namely that the carmaker would face no change in its trading conditions following Britain's exit from the EU'. (FT Oct 29/30) So, so much for the above limp attempt at an explanation.

 

It's like holding a debate with a lamp post .

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

It's like holding a debate with a lamp post .

 

A stream of piddle appears to be the preferred method of most mutts around here.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

If you are referring to the Iraqi, Afghanistan, Libya and the policy in Syria you may have some justification. But you should also do the research that NOT all these migrants are from these areas. it has been mentioned numerous times. Please stop watching the BBC and SKY news.

Whichever newspaper or magazine the 'news' or opinion comes from - it needs to be read with a huge dose of scepticism.

 

They all have their own agendas and political beliefs. 

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're comparing apples and oranges trying to compare Canada's situation with the UK's. The UK already has tariff-free trade with the rest of the EU, and has the rather strong negotiating leverage of it's existing imports from the EU's biggest economies. And if you think German heavy industry (and French farmers ) will have no say in this, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Throw into the mix the probable change of government in Germany and the almost certain change of government in France, and it's going to be a whole new playing field in the second year of our negotiations.

It took big concessions to get little Wallonia to agree to CETA.  For obvious reasons, there will be lots more nations balking at giving concessions to the UK