Any negotiated Brexit comes with strings attached, regarding free movement, etc.  All we'll get is limited access with a whole lot of obligations.

 

It really is a case of don't leave, or crash out.

 

Anything else is pointless.

 

EU needs to note it is a 2 way street.

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Although they voted to remain looks like Gibraltar has been flustered, should they accept the will of the Spanish in accordance with the will of the English.

Standard bargaining ploy by the EU/Spain. Anyone who is involved in negotiations or budgets knows this.

 

Put something in that they know they will not get and then remove it provided we give in on something.

 

Very transparent.

22 hours ago, Humberstone said:

A TVF thread wouldn't be complete without Pat Condell of course. Thanks, I've  really missed the sour faced old prat, but why did it take until page 173 ?  

...cos he didn't upload til 31st March 

20 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Sorry Sandy, I don't catalogue your posts. Anyway, it's become obvious you were just raising a red herring on this particular issue.

Red herrings, food item or sport accessory? Maybe one day you will understand the complexity of tariffs.

20 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

If you think anything's going to change for Gibraltar you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

So nothing is going to change, you believe Gibraltar will remain a British Overseas Territory and Gibraltar will remain part of the EU.

One day many will wake up and they are not going to like what they see, of course to many the emerging face of brexit is perfectly acceptable.

 

Benefit cuts but plenty money for brexit costs.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/universal-credit-benefits-changes-government-tory-conservative-children-a7663076.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/benefit-freeze-cuts-austerity-measures-welfare-state-inflation-a7661196.html

Hate crime

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/croydon-hate-crime-six-arrested-shrublands-goat-pub-asylum-seeker-latest-a7662516.html

Deportation

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-shop-worker-stojan-jankovic-camden-yugoslavia-keir-starmer-home-offica-visa-a7661281.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4190826/Grandmother-married-Briton-27-years-deported.html

Price rises

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-fruit-vegetable-prices-increase-uk-shops-supermarket-rabobank-a7659726.html

Antagonism

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nicola-sturgeon-scottish-independence-referendum-theresa-may-request-a7659201.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fabian-picardo-gibraltar-brexit-strip-us-of-who-we-are-a7662566.html

Customs chaos

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-confidence-uk-customs-system-collapse-a7660461.html

 

The list just goes on and on but of course those that will have to live with the fallout should keep their mouths shut and respect the will of their elders.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-eu-students-two-thirds-a7662081.html

 

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

So nothing is going to change, you believe Gibraltar will remain a British Overseas Territory and Gibraltar will remain part of the EU.

 

You have confirmed that your level of debate is infantile. Back to the ignore list to keep your fellow "I WANT TO WIN I WANT TO WIN!" remainers Grouse and Pitrevie company.

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

One day many will wake up and they are not going to like what they see, of course to many the emerging face of brexit is perfectly acceptable.

 

That's OK Sandy, you can go and live in the Republic of Scotland basking in all of the sunshine and spending all of the massive oil revenues under Good Queen Nicola 1st.

 

Meanwhile as TM and others are battling for the best we can get, you and a few misguided souls are constantly running down the UK. The UK will be so much better off outside of the EU but in Europe.

 

I would lay good money on a bet that if Scotland gained independence, you would not be living there.

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

One day many will wake up and they are not going to like what they see, of course to many the emerging face of brexit is perfectly acceptable.

 

Benefit cuts but plenty money for brexit costs.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/universal-credit-benefits-changes-government-tory-conservative-children-a7663076.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/benefit-freeze-cuts-austerity-measures-welfare-state-inflation-a7661196.html

Hate crime

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/croydon-hate-crime-six-arrested-shrublands-goat-pub-asylum-seeker-latest-a7662516.html

Deportation

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-shop-worker-stojan-jankovic-camden-yugoslavia-keir-starmer-home-offica-visa-a7661281.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4190826/Grandmother-married-Briton-27-years-deported.html

Price rises

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-fruit-vegetable-prices-increase-uk-shops-supermarket-rabobank-a7659726.html

Antagonism

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nicola-sturgeon-scottish-independence-referendum-theresa-may-request-a7659201.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fabian-picardo-gibraltar-brexit-strip-us-of-who-we-are-a7662566.html

Customs chaos

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-confidence-uk-customs-system-collapse-a7660461.html

 

The list just goes on and on but of course those that will have to live with the fallout should keep their mouths shut and respect the will of their elders.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-eu-students-two-thirds-a7662081.html

 

The "emerging" face of brexit as per your articles is nothing of the sort.  Quite a few of us realised that brexit was likely to result in it being used as an excuse by politicians to hit the bottom two thirds even harder....

 

On the other hand, many of those in the 'two thirds' don't even realise they're in that bracket and genuinely believe that promoting politicians/big business interests is in their own interest ! 

 

Different of course, once retired when big business interests correlate more closely to personal pension interests.

22 hours ago, sandyf said:

One day many will wake up and they are not going to like what they see, of course to many the emerging face of brexit is perfectly acceptable.

 

Benefit cuts but plenty money for brexit costs.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/universal-credit-benefits-changes-government-tory-conservative-children-a7663076.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/benefit-freeze-cuts-austerity-measures-welfare-state-inflation-a7661196.html

Hate crime

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/croydon-hate-crime-six-arrested-shrublands-goat-pub-asylum-seeker-latest-a7662516.html

Deportation

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-shop-worker-stojan-jankovic-camden-yugoslavia-keir-starmer-home-offica-visa-a7661281.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4190826/Grandmother-married-Briton-27-years-deported.html

Price rises

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-fruit-vegetable-prices-increase-uk-shops-supermarket-rabobank-a7659726.html

Antagonism

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nicola-sturgeon-scottish-independence-referendum-theresa-may-request-a7659201.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fabian-picardo-gibraltar-brexit-strip-us-of-who-we-are-a7662566.html

Customs chaos

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-confidence-uk-customs-system-collapse-a7660461.html

 

The list just goes on and on but of course those that will have to live with the fallout should keep their mouths shut and respect the will of their elders.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-eu-students-two-thirds-a7662081.html

 

I suggest you stop reading the independent newspaper, as the independent is definitely not what its name says. It is a mouthpiece for the remain campaign and kisses the backside of the EU, so you will only get one side of the story.

55 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I suggest you stop reading the independent newspaper, as the independent is definitely not what its name says. It is a mouthpiece for the remain campaign and kisses the backside of the EU, so you will only get one side of the story.

Would you care to offer some suggestions for a more balanced daily newspaper?

57 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I suggest you stop reading the independent newspaper, as the independent is definitely not what its name says. It is a mouthpiece for the remain campaign and kisses the backside of the EU, so you will only get one side of the story.

Of course everyone is perfectly entitled to claim anything they want as fake news, seems to be the current buzz word.

As for the newspaper, it is one of the few that does not try and manipulate your computer or try and charge for this fake news.

19 hours ago, Flustered said:

That's OK Sandy, you can go and live in the Republic of Scotland basking in all of the sunshine and spending all of the massive oil revenues under Good Queen Nicola 1st.

 

Meanwhile as TM and others are battling for the best we can get, you and a few misguided souls are constantly running down the UK. The UK will be so much better off outside of the EU but in Europe.

 

I would lay good money on a bet that if Scotland gained independence, you would not be living there.

You are perfectly correct, if you were a bit more observant you would know that I live in Thailand (basking in the sunshine?) and have done for many years. Of course I realise that in your world it would mean that my family and others are not entitled to take steps to secure their own future.

 

TM was also perfectly correct, there is no turning back, even if brexit was cancelled tomorrow.

Residents not born in the UK would still be made to feel unwelcome.

The hate crime victims would still be dead and injured.

Scotland will still have been betrayed.

The pound will still have slumped for 9 months or more.

Prices would still be set to rise.

Relations with the rest of Europe will still have been soured for generations to come.

 

TM has secured a place in the history books but not one to be proud of.

20 hours ago, Flustered said:

That's OK Sandy, you can go and live in the Republic of Scotland basking in all of the sunshine and spending all of the massive oil revenues under Good Queen Nicola 1st.

 

Meanwhile as TM and others are battling for the best we can get, you and a few misguided souls are constantly running down the UK. The UK will be so much better off outside of the EU but in Europe.

 

I would lay good money on a bet that if Scotland gained independence, you would not be living there.

I would pay good money not to live anywhere 'oop North, pre- or post-Brexit. I get a nose bleed outside the Circle Line.

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Would you care to offer some suggestions for a more balanced daily newspaper?

The Times but its a pay to view.

 

I read most of the papers daily. Some are good for things like the Guardian for education and sport but its politics are biased. The Telegraph isn't to bad.

I actually enjoying the comments section of articles especially in the Express or Mail as many things written by readers are better than the articles.. Pictures and photos the Mirror and Star. The Sun (if you can call it a newspaper) never gets read from anyone where I am from (so there is a guess). The independent is just far to biased for me.

I hope that helps.

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

 

TM was also perfectly correct, there is no turning back, even if brexit was cancelled tomorrow.

Residents not born in the UK would still be made to feel unwelcome.

The hate crime victims would still be dead and injured.

Scotland will still have been betrayed.

The pound will still have slumped for 9 months or more.

Prices would still be set to rise.

Relations with the rest of Europe will still have been soured for generations to come.

 

TM has secured a place in the history books but not one to be proud of.

As someone living in Thailand, you are hardly well placed to make these sweeping remarks.

 

The UK is probably one of the most welcoming countries in the world for foreigners. If it was not, why would hundreds of thousands be trying to come here and live?

 

You are better off staying in Thailand as with such a large chip on your shoulder, you would never fit back in over in the UK or even "Mary Doll's" Utopia of Scotland. And regarding TM, you are not qualified to comment on her as you have made your home Thailand and no longer reside in the UK.

 

Why is it that the word  patriotic in Scotland means a hatred of England and a belief that the Scots are superior to every other race in the world?

12 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Why is it that the word  patriotic in Scotland means a hatred of England and a belief that the Scots are superior to every other race in the world?

You just broke the irony meter.

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Would you care to offer some suggestions for a more balanced daily newspaper?

On 03/04/2017 at 4:38 PM, dick dasterdly said:

The "emerging" face of brexit as per your articles is nothing of the sort.  Quite a few of us realised that brexit was likely to result in it being used as an excuse by politicians to hit the bottom two thirds even harder....

 

On the other hand, many of those in the 'two thirds' don't even realise they're in that bracket and genuinely believe that promoting politicians/big business interests is in their own interest ! 

 

Different of course, once retired when big business interests correlate more closely to personal pension interests.

 

This hits the nail on the head.

23 hours ago, Flustered said:

As someone living in Thailand, you are hardly well placed to make these sweeping remarks.

 

The UK is probably one of the most welcoming countries in the world for foreigners. If it was not, why would hundreds of thousands be trying to come here and live?

 

You are better off staying in Thailand as with such a large chip on your shoulder, you would never fit back in over in the UK or even "Mary Doll's" Utopia of Scotland. And regarding TM, you are not qualified to comment on her as you have made your home Thailand and no longer reside in the UK.

 

Why is it that the word  patriotic in Scotland means a hatred of England and a belief that the Scots are superior to every other race in the world?

If all else fails, shoot the messenger.

On 4/4/2017 at 8:44 AM, Laughing Gravy said:

I suggest you stop reading the independent newspaper, as the independent is definitely not what its name says. It is a mouthpiece for the remain campaign and kisses the backside of the EU, so you will only get one side of the story.

 

On 4/4/2017 at 9:41 AM, RuamRudy said:

Would you care to offer some suggestions for a more balanced daily newspaper?

ALL newspapers and media outlets are biased towards their own agendas and financial interests.  This should be so obvious to everyone that there shouldn't be a need to point it out.

 

Which is why its so difficult for anyone to be properly informed on most subjects - even more so on politically and financially charged matters.  Particularly when predicting the future which is based even more on opinion and bias!

On 4/3/2017 at 5:38 PM, dick dasterdly said:

The "emerging" face of brexit as per your articles is nothing of the sort.  Quite a few of us realised that brexit was likely to result in it being used as an excuse by politicians to hit the bottom two thirds even harder....

 

On the other hand, many of those in the 'two thirds' don't even realise they're in that bracket and genuinely believe that promoting politicians/big business interests is in their own interest ! 

 

Different of course, once retired when big business interests correlate more closely to personal pension interests.

 

On 4/4/2017 at 5:47 PM, mommysboy said:

 

This hits the nail on the head.

A right pair of reluctant conservatives.

7 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

ALL newspapers and media outlets are biased towards their own agendas and financial interests.  This should be so obvious to everyone that there shouldn't be a need to point it out.

 

Which is why its so difficult for anyone to be properly informed on most subjects - even more so on politically and financially charged matters.  Particularly when predicting the future which is based even more on opinion and bias!

Critical evaluation and research is probably too much of an effort for some people on this thread. Life is oh! so! difficult!

Clean break. The EU exported far more to the UK than the other way around,  think of the £52 billion as in UK bank account,plus the £8.3 billion year on year,and yes UK can set its own custom dues and taxes with others outside of EU,could feel sorry for Ireland for what is about to happen,just hope Scotland gets independence,now that would be nice

4 minutes ago, teddog said:

Clean break. The EU exported far more to the UK than the other way around,  think of the £52 billion as in UK bank account,plus the £8.3 billion year on year,and yes UK can set its own custom dues and taxes with others outside of EU,could feel sorry for Ireland for what is about to happen,just hope Scotland gets independence,now that would be nice

A lot of guys on this thread haven't studied 5 minutes of economics in their life and now they are experts in international trade.

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Most of the guys on this thread haven't studied 5 minutes of economics in their life and now they are experts in international trade.

Where as you. 5555

50 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Where as you. 5555

More than 5 which puts me near the top of the class unfortunately.

Farage behaving like a complete boor in the European Parliament.

Farage discovers that the Kingdom can not avoid paying of its debts to EU. 60 Billion before the first discussion. It was he who announced savings...

 

And if the English can do without EU, we now know that Europeans are also better off without them. The states of the Union have never been more supportive to advance in its original objective : an area of peace, culture and prosperity supported by the world's leading industrial and agricultural market.

 

Let's also point out that the beginning flirt between May and Trump with a common wish for the failure of Eu dissuaded all those who wanted a privileged agreement.

15 minutes ago, happy Joe said:

Farage discovers that the Kingdom can not avoid paying of its debts to EU. 60 Billion before the first discussion. It was he who announced savings...

 

And if the English can do without EU, we now know that Europeans are also better off without them. The states of the Union have never been more supportive to advance in its original objective : an area of peace, culture and prosperity supported by the world's leading industrial and agricultural market.

 

Let's also point out that the beginning flirt between May and Trump with a common wish for the failure of Eu dissuaded all those who wanted a privileged agreement.

 

Oh, Europe will be much worse off without the UK. Just ask Joe Kaeser. And enjoy your dream about 60 bn of free money, it will be sadness and gloom when you wake up to reality.