May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Basil B]

8 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

alows a bit more room for the sixteen ones that are missing. Or do you only get a star when you've made your first credit payment?

Quote

Why are there 12 stars on the European flag?

It features a circle of 12 gold stars on a blue background. They stand for the ideals of unity, solidarity and harmony among the peoples of Europe. The number of stars has nothing to do with the number of member countries, though the circle is a symbol of unity.

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/symbols/flag_en

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

People have correctly pointed out that the UK is now devoid of it's manufacturing industry. Others ask where does the large British contributions go.

 

This is a great post, detailing the absurdity of remaining in the EU, we currently have the Lib Dums advocating to stay in and Labour all over the place on Brexit.

This is why we are leaving. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
 

For all those Remoaners,who unsurprisingly do not accept the above. Just ask yourselves two questions.

 

Who looses out when industry moves from the UK to another country?

Could it be the average British worker,and the British Excheaquer.

 

Who gains when industry reallocates to another country?

Could it be the foreign workers and the Multi- Nationals.

 

And then you may wonder why I think, that on this thread, we seem to have a number of people with the selfish attitude of  "I'm alright Jack." Or is it that maybe they're ten bob millionairs, and therefore think that they're part of the elite.

 

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

People have correctly pointed out that the UK is now devoid of it's manufacturing industry. Others ask where does the large British contributions go.

 

This is a great post, detailing the absurdity of remaining in the EU, we currently have the Lib Dums advocating to stay in and Labour all over the place on Brexit.

This is why we are leaving. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
 

I'd forgotten about so many of those EU grants given to big business to locate in other countries, as well as all the other appalling incidents mentioned in your post .

 

EU grants and loans have always been a joke, and its good to be reminded.

Edited May 8, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Quite an amazing list and yet somehow  German industry grows and thrives maybe they are in a different EU.

I agree about Germany being in a different EU, but could well be wrong and so it would be interesting to see a similar list for the EU grants given to move business from Germany.

[Flustered]

Dick, it's a waste of time pointing out facts to Bremoaners.

 

No matter how much damage the EU has done to the UK, the ostriches will continue to keep their heads in the ground claiming that the EU has been a great success for the UK despite the FACT that the UK balance of trade has increased dramatically since joining mainly brought about by inter EU trading.

 

The UK has been seen as a major source of income and easy picking for moving manufacturing plant to countries where the production costs are cheaper.

 

Of course, none of this matters to those EU luvvies. As long as we become a Greater European republic, any cost is worth it.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

 

Please explain? This is news to me.

 

Why did you omit Dyson, the Brexiteer hero? He does his manufacturing in Malaysia!

 

The reasons for locating manufacturing plants are manifold. It's not just employee remuneration; look at Germany. What grants do the Con government offer? What about infrastructure? What about UK relationship with EU? We should be top at high tech development and manufacturing. We have the brains. But what about capital? Berlin is booming. It's not all bad news but much of it is. Car manufacturing is at risk unless the Con Party covers the costs of duties and customs procedures.

 

Shame it will be difficult for Brits to work at any of these plants- engineers, IT, robotics, automation, AI, product design....

"Why did you omit Dyson, the Brexiteer hero? He does his manufacturing in Malaysia!"

 

 

You obviously missed "Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan." - one of the items on Nontanbury's list....

 

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, mommysboy said:

OK.  But what will change when we leave the EU?  Why will UK suddenly be the sort of place that manufacturing comes back to?

 

Investment will generally go to places that have low costs.

 

Those 1000 jobs that have left will become 500 and then 250 as automation takes hold.

 

With the UK, its more about attitude- short term profit versus long term gain.  Ironically, it is unchecked capitalism that has made matters worse.  The remedy will not be even more of it.

 

Lower wages, less rights,  lower business taxes, a weak pound, and less red tape- all things that Brexit will inevitably bring about- should inevitably help business thrive however, though its underclass will suffer.  Perhaps this is the only medicine!  But it is hardly a cause for celebration.

 

 

But at least big business will not be given EU grants to move elsewhere.

[Flustered]

For all of those who are so anti Tory and Anti Brexit, ask yourself "what are the alternatives?"

 

A Labour Government under Chairman Corbyn, committed to the destruction of the armed forces and increased borrowing to pay for Socialist projects.

 

A LibDem Government under Tim Fallon who would roll over to the EU and give them anything and everything they ask for. No real policies and a bunch of flakes as members.

 

A coalition Government of Labour, LibDems and the SNP. All of your worst nightmares come true.

 

Get real. The Tories may not offer you everything you want but at least they are facing up to our current problems, have managed to drag us out of the mess that Gordon Brown created and put us in a strong position to negotiate our exit from the European Social Club. No one can deny that Theresa May has been diplomatic and acted in a very professional manner so far. So give her a chance to get the best deal she can rather than cheering for an EU that does not and has never wanted the UK as a member.

 

Or would you rather have Chairman Corbyn at the helm? That is the alternative.

[pitrevie]

34 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree about Germany being in a different EU, but could well be wrong and so it would be interesting to see a similar list for the EU grants given to move business from Germany.

That is weak even for you, Germany are governed by the same rules as the UK. Just face up to the fact that Germany since the war has managed its economy a lot better than us and stop blaming the EU for our dreadful economic performance. Who are you going to blame 5 years from now?

 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

 

Please explain? This is news to me. News to me too! 

 

Why did you omit Dyson, the Brexiteer hero? He does his manufacturing in Malaysia! Dyson is on the list there - he is planning to expand back in the UK soon.

 

The reasons for locating manufacturing plants are manifold. It's not just employee remuneration; look at Germany. What grants do the Con government offer? What about infrastructure? What about UK relationship with EU? We should be top at high tech development and manufacturing. We have the brains. But what about capital? Berlin is booming. It's not all bad news but much of it is. Car manufacturing is at risk unless the Con Party covers the costs of duties and customs procedures. Perhaps some of the money lost into the gaping EU maw could be redirected and used to encourage UK industry and job growth?  EU grants are biased towards the newer, poorer members which is a nice idea and probably encourages more loyal membership by those countries but which costs the UK.  

 

Shame it will be difficult for Brits to t work at any of these plants- engineers, IT, robotics, automation, AI, product design...yes a shame if it happens but at the moment that is just speculation. We will know when we know. 

 

I recognize that UK industrial efficiency has historically been generally poor but since 1973, the UK's industrial capability has been allowed to be systematically further eroded, at least partially, by EU rules and governments. The Common Fishing Policy, expensive energy (due to EU) and more subsidies to other areas of the EU are all causes of declines in some UK industries. And of course these grants are largely enabled by the UK's net contribution to the EU pot!  

 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

For all of those who are so anti Tory and Anti Brexit, ask yourself "what are the alternatives?"

 

 

A Labour Government under Chairman Corbyn, committed to the destruction of the armed forces and increased borrowing to pay for Socialist projects.

 

 

A LibDem Government under Tim Fallon who would roll over to the EU and give them anything and everything they ask for. No real policies and a bunch of flakes as members.

 

 

A coalition Government of Labour, LibDems and the SNP. All of your worst nightmares come true.

 

Get real. The Tories may not offer you everything you want but at least they are facing up to our current problems, have managed to drag us out of the mess that Gordon Brown created and put us in a strong position to negotiate our exit from the European Social Club. No one can deny that Theresa May has been diplomatic and acted in a very professional manner so far. So give her a chance to get the best deal she can rather than cheering for an EU that does not and has never wanted the UK as a member.

 

Or would you rather have Chairman Corbyn at the helm? That is the alternative.

 

I dont think the Conservatives are much cop at all.  Like many I'm just hoping May can win a sizable majority so that she can confine the far right to the rubbish bin where they belong.

 

As for the Tories facing up to our current problems.....don't make me laugh!

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

For all of those who are so anti Tory and Anti Brexit, ask yourself "what are the alternatives?"

 

 

A Labour Government under Chairman Corbyn, committed to the destruction of the armed forces and increased borrowing to pay for Socialist projects.

 

 

A LibDem Government under Tim Fallon who would roll over to the EU and give them anything and everything they ask for. No real policies and a bunch of flakes as members.

 

 

A coalition Government of Labour, LibDems and the SNP. All of your worst nightmares come true.

 

Get real. The Tories may not offer you everything you want but at least they are facing up to our current problems, have managed to drag us out of the mess that Gordon Brown created and put us in a strong position to negotiate our exit from the European Social Club. No one can deny that Theresa May has been diplomatic and acted in a very professional manner so far. So give her a chance to get the best deal she can rather than cheering for an EU that does not and has never wanted the UK as a member.

 

Or would you rather have Chairman Corbyn at the helm? That is the alternative.

When we leave the single market there is a very big trade flow to make up.  Where is this going to come from?  This is a problem of paramount importance, as is income inequality, domestic investment, and constitutional imbalance (Scotland and N.Ireland have virtually no say in their problems). 

 

It's not just a matter of wanting to leave.  Vague promises of trade deals with far off lands do not cut it.

 

I don't doubt May's capabilities.  I do doubt the far right of her party, who are hell bent on taking issue with everyone and everything, including the PM.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree about Germany being in a different EU, but could well be wrong and so it would be interesting to see a similar list for the EU grants given to move business from Germany.

 

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

That is weak even for you, Germany are governed by the same rules as the UK. Just face up to the fact that Germany since the war has managed its economy a lot better than us and stop blaming the EU for our dreadful economic performance. Who are you going to blame 5 years from now?

 

Not keen on the "That is weak even for you" for obvious reasons , but it cheered me up after getting involved in other threads that were making me seriously bad tempered .

 

Surely it would have been more convincing to produce a similar list (to Nontanbury's) as to the EU grants provided to move business out of Germany?

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

That is weak even for you, Germany are governed by the same rules as the UK. Just face up to the fact that Germany since the war has managed its economy a lot better than us and stop blaming the EU for our dreadful economic performance. Who are you going to blame 5 years from now?

 

I'd add that I admire the Germans enormously - as far as I can make out they've got it pretty much 'right'.

 

On the other hand, their EU politicians' policies are an entirely different kettle of fish, and even the Germans have had enough of the open borders and welcoming 'refugees' I think.

 

But of course I'm not living in Germany and so could well be wrong.?  Odd then that Merkel has changed her stance on this subject?

[Flustered]

16 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

When we leave the single market there is a very big trade flow to make up.  Where is this going to come from?  This is a problem of paramount importance, as is income inequality, domestic investment, and constitutional imbalance (Scotland and N.Ireland have virtually no say in their problems). 

 

It's not just a matter of wanting to leave.  Vague promises of trade deals with far off lands do not cut it.

 

I don't doubt May's capabilities.  I do doubt the far right of her party, who are hell bent on taking issue with everyone and everything, including the PM.

So you have no answer, just criticism.

 

I have faith in Theresa May and the future of the UK.

[pitrevie]

27 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Not keen on the "That is weak even for you" for obvious reasons , but it cheered me up after getting involved in other threads that were making me seriously bad tempered .

 

Surely it would have been more convincing to produce a similar list (to Nontanbury's) as to the EU grants provided to move business out of Germany?

The list fell apart almost at the first instance of googling it. For some reason our manufacturing base is going downhill and Germany's is going in the other direction and of course the blame lies with the EU. I don't think there is anything more to add to that.

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Flustered said:

No one can deny that Theresa May has been diplomatic and acted in a very professional manner so far. So give her a chance to get the best deal she can rather than cheering for an EU that does not and has never wanted the UK as a member.

 

So that's why the EU was celebrating when Brexit was passed. And why they're offering the UK so many concessions to leave.  Because the "EU that does not and has never wanted the UK as a member."

Got it.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Why did you omit Dyson, the Brexiteer hero? He does his manufacturing in Malaysia!"

 

 

You obviously missed "Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan." - one of the items on Nontanbury's list....

 

OK Eagle Eye, you got me

 

It's a fair cop! 

 

BUT why is Dyson so keen to leave the EU? Consumer protection? I wonder!

 

Certainly not to protect British jobs....

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

The list fell apart almost at the first instance of googling it. For some reason our manufacturing base is going downhill and Germany's is going in the other direction and of course the blame lies with the EU. I don't think there is anything more to add to that.

In which case counter at least a few of the items on Nontanbury's list - rather than just dismissing it with a glib 'google it' comment.

 

Edit - Even better, come out with a list of EU grants given to German companies to move their workforce elsewhere.

Edited May 8, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[pitrevie]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

In which case counter at least a few of the items on Nontanbury's list - rather than just dismissing it with a glib 'google it' comment.

 

Edit - Even better, come out with a list of EU grants given to German companies to move their workforce elsewhere.

 

I provided a link to a site which showed that several of the claims to have had EU grants were bogus. In fact the one that set off the alarm bells was Dyson it just didn't seem logical for the EU to provide a grant to move jobs from an EU country to a non EU country and in fact I cannot find any evidence that they ever did. If you bothered to check the link you would see that several of the other claims attributed to the EU are bogus.

So I never used a glib google it and if you bothered to read the reply you would see that I have in fact provided the link.

[mommysboy]

49 minutes ago, Flustered said:

So you have no answer, just criticism.

 

I have faith in Theresa May and the future of the UK.

Yes my answer is not to leave the single market, or perhaps push for some associate status.

 

As regards other matters, the solution is not difficult but requires a party willing to do it.

[mommysboy]

56 minutes ago, Flustered said:

So you have no answer, just criticism.

 

I have faith in Theresa May and the future of the UK.

Let mother sort it out?

 

I can see why Thailand might suit.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by mommysboy

[teddog]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree about Germany being in a different EU, but could well be wrong and so it would be interesting to see a similar list for the EU grants given to move business from Germany.

 

It matters not that Germany is given EU grants to move from Germany, it will never happen as Germany itself operates with a cheap currency and is far more efficient than most countries

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

 

I dont think the Conservatives are much cop at all.  Like many I'm just hoping May can win a sizable majority so that she can confine the far right to the rubbish bin where they belong.

 

As for the Tories facing up to our current problems.....don't make me laugh!

I'm inclined to agree, but at the moment the only chance the UK has is the tory party (May) standing up to the EU when it comes to forcing the EU into accepting a reasonable brexit deal - or just saying a bad deal, we're leaving without any deal.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

I recognize that UK industrial efficiency has historically been generally poor but since 1973, the UK's industrial capability has been allowed to be systematically further eroded, at least partially, by EU rules and governments. The Common Fishing Policy, expensive energy (due to EU) and more subsidies to other areas of the EU are all causes of declines in some UK industries. And of course these grants are largely enabled by the UK's net contribution to the EU pot!  

 

I appreciate the wise comments.

 

what sort of EU rules (governments?) have negatively affected UK manufacturing. We've had to meet environmental and safety standards etc; isn't down to Con policies, short termism and the overriding goal of shareholder value?

 

We should have gone nuclear in a big way with our own AGR and fast breeder reactors. France are 80% nuclear. Germany is shutting theirs down! We just don't look at the long term. Where are the engineers in government???

 

It occurs that some will not be au fait with PWR, BWR, AGR 

 

http://www-diva.eng.cam.ac.uk/mphil-in-nuclear-energy/external-lectures/2011-12-lectures/edf-energy-ng-cambridge-09022012.pdf

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Grouse
Explanation

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm inclined to agree, but at the moment the only chance the UK has is the tory party (May) standing up to the EU when it comes to forcing the EU into accepting a reasonable brexit deal - or just saying a bad deal, we're leaving without any deal.

We were better off staying and fighting (together with Macron) for changes from within.

 

I see no upside that I am interested in ?

[dick dasterdly]

31 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

 

I provided a link to a site which showed that several of the claims to have had EU grants were bogus. In fact the one that set off the alarm bells was Dyson it just didn't seem logical for the EU to provide a grant to move jobs from an EU country to a non EU country and in fact I cannot find any evidence that they ever did. If you bothered to check the link you would see that several of the other claims attributed to the EU are bogus.

So I never used a glib google it and if you bothered to read the reply you would see that I have in fact provided the link.

You're quite right, there are so many pointless/biased links on this thread that I rarely bother reading them any more .

 

For the sake of those of us who are fed-up with carefully reading every link, I'd be very grateful if you would provide a summary outlining how each link proves that Nontanbury's list was incorrect.  It makes it far easier to then decide which links to read.

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Let mother sort it out?

 

I can see why Thailand might suit.

 

 

Entirely off topic, but as a cockney (by birth, and brought up in Essex!) I love that song, and so it was another post that cheered me up enormously.  I've always loved the song as it reminds me of my origins and gives me a chance (when singing along) to try to re-discover my accent!

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You're quite right, there are so many pointless/biased links on this thread that I rarely bother reading them any more .

 

For the sake of those of us who are fed-up with carefully reading every link, I'd be very grateful if you would provide a summary outlining how each link proves that Nontanbury's list was incorrect.  It makes it far easier to then decide which links to read.

I was involved with the relocation of a high tech, highly automated electronics sub-assembly plant from Portsmouth to Thailand. The UK plant could not turn a profit even when 100% loaded. Only marginal in Thailand. 

 

In someways, we have only ourselves to blame. More and more for less and less. And do you know what? The people actually doing the work don't benefit, the shareholders do. If I told you that the REALLY clever part of a DVD/RW costs about 2 USD would you be surprised?

 

We need some good solutions; Brexit is not one of them ?

[dick dasterdly]

 

16 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We were better off staying and fighting (together with Macron) for changes from within.

 

I see no upside that I am interested in ?

We've been through this argument so many times previously....  The EU (even after brexit) is showing no sign of changing its attitude and stance.

 

You think Macron is interested in (even if he had the power) to force them into changing?  I doubt it.