May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Johnyo]

 
And your continuing attempt to link Jo Cox's tragic murder to the leave campaign just-about personifies the utter dishonesty of remain. There are no levels to which they won't stoop to get sympathy for their cause . Ugh!!!

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/14/jo-cox-killed-in-politically-motivated-murder-trial-thomas-mair-hears?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

There you go Mr F.... drama queen


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[Grouse]

45 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Taking a swipe at whoever was PM when "such'n'such" happened is typical behaviour and is not helping matters.  Leave personalities out of it -- concentrate on the policies -- or lack of them -- that's the root of the problem.

 

What are you on?

 

I have nicely demonstrated the rising inequality in the U.K. To the current state where we are about as bad as it gets.

 

The fact that Thatcher was at the helm during the period of fastest rising inequality was the icing on the cake.

 

You may recall that some of the most deprived areas of the UK were throttled by Thatcherite monetarist policies.

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/14/jo-cox-killed-in-politically-motivated-murder-trial-thomas-mair-hears?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

There you go Mr F.... drama queen


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The Brexit campaign was a catalyst for all kinds of unpleasant behaviour and continues to be. Mair was clearly deranged but his extreme xenophobia was certainly a factor that was ignited

[Johnyo]

 
The Brexit campaign was a catalyst for all kinds of unpleasant behaviour and continues to be. Mair was clearly deranged but his extreme xenophobia was certainly a factor that was ignited

Yes Han seems to think that this unfortunate incident would have happened anyway. Nothing to do with the xenophobic vile spewed by Farage and co.


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[CharlieK]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

Difficult to contradict no stance, other than berating the confrontational party politics which has produced the mess the UK is in now...

As long as you don't expect party politics to solve the mess! 

The EU is great for career politicians, it allows them to play party politics while at the same time blaming the EU for policy decisions. "after all we have to follow EU rules" 

 

But it has been interesting to see how the EU has reacted to Trump winning. This is an EU who are arrogant out of touch and very worried. They could handle brexit but not Brexit and a changing US. That they had to hold a special summit about this shows just how lost they are in their federalist ambitions! The EU would look useless if the UK were to make a trade deal with the US quicker than they, having not managed to do that for 7 years now.  

 

That is why they want more federalism, take away the decision making from all 27 EU states and centralise it all to Brussels. But this is not the US of A. 27 EU nations don't share one identity etc. 

 

Now I am wondering if the court cases in the UK over Brexit are not some tactic to delay the enactment of article 50 to stop brexit, but to delay it till later in the year, After France and Germany have held elections. Enacting article 50 end of March will mean waiting till after those elections, as we don't know if Merkel or hollande will still be in office, so almost pointless negotiating until knowing those outcomes, Add the problems of the Euro to that mix and you might wonder if All the Euro's problems will come home to roost next year? Come the end of 2017 mid 2018 there may not be an EU to negotiate with!

 

IMO it doesn't matter if it is a hard brexit, or somehow the EU breaks up, the UK would feel the effects of either outcome, if not pain today, pain tomorrow. That is the remainers' problem they have never said what benefit is it to the UK to be caught in a collapsing EU.

 

There is only one Brexit, that is to enact article 50 and not bother negotiating with the EU. Just leave, go out there and forge new trade deals with other countries.   

    

[jpinx]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

What are you on?

 

I have nicely demonstrated the rising inequality in the U.K. To the current state where we are about as bad as it gets.

 

The fact that Thatcher was at the helm during the period of fastest rising inequality was the icing on the cake.

 

You may recall that some of the most deprived areas of the UK were throttled by Thatcherite monetarist policies.

No demonstration of the situation is needed -- it's clear as day. Unfortunately people still can not see past the personalities.  If Thatcher had not been there, there would have been another leader to take on the mantle that created the society which emerged.  Thatcher was extensively guided, and therein lies the problem.  It's not the numbers and statistics, and it's not the egos that are interesting, it's the reason for the policies being formed at all.  Anything to beat the opposition -- no matter how bad for the country. Madness pretending to be politics

Edited November 14, 2016 by jpinx

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, jpinx said:

No demonstration of the situation is needed -- it's clear as day. Unfortunately people still can not see past the personalities.  If Thatcher had not been there, there would have been another leader to take on the mantle that created the society which emerged.  Thatcher was extensively guided, and therein lies the problem.  It's not the number, and it's not the egos that are interesting, it's the reason for the policies being formed at all.  Anything to beat the opposition -- no matter how bad for the country. Madness pretending to be politics

 

'Madness pretending to be politics'. Whereas for you the choice appears to be vice-versa.

Edited November 14, 2016 by SheungWan

[jpinx]

5 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

As long as you don't expect party politics to solve the mess! 

The EU is great for career politicians, it allows them to play party politics while at the same time blaming the EU for policy decisions. "after all we have to follow EU rules" 

 

But it has been interesting to see how the EU has reacted to Trump winning. This is an EU who are arrogant out of touch and very worried. They could handle brexit but not Brexit and a changing US. That they had to hold a special summit about this shows just how lost they are in their federalist ambitions! The EU would look useless if the UK were to make a trade deal with the US quicker than they, having not managed to do that for 7 years now.  

 

That is why they want more federalism, take away the decision making from all 27 EU states and centralise it all to Brussels. But this is not the US of A. 27 EU nations don't share one identity etc. 

 

Now I am wondering if the court cases in the UK over Brexit are not some tactic to delay the enactment of article 50 to stop brexit, but to delay it till later in the year, After France and Germany have held elections. Enacting article 50 end of March will mean waiting till after those elections, as we don't know if Merkel or hollande will still be in office, so almost pointless negotiating until knowing those outcomes, Add the problems of the Euro to that mix and you might wonder if All the Euro's problems will come home to roost next year? Come the end of 2017 mid 2018 there may not be an EU to negotiate with!

 

IMO it doesn't matter if it is a hard brexit, or somehow the EU breaks up, the UK would feel the effects of either outcome, if not pain today, pain tomorrow. That is the remainers' problem they have never said what benefit is it to the UK to be caught in a collapsing EU.

 

There is only one Brexit, that is to enact article 50 and not bother negotiating with the EU. Just leave, go out there and forge new trade deals with other countries.   

    

That was one of my first posts on this topic.  I thought Cameron should have enacted Art 50 the day after the results and not given time for all this mess.  UK could have walked away, done the hard yards of the chaos ensuing and come out smelling of roses by now.

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

'Madness pretending to be politics'. Whereas for you the choice appears to be vice-versa.

if i had meant the opposite - I'd have written it the opposite way.  The madness is the way policies are created, the politics are subservient to that madness. 

[CharlieK]

4 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Anything to beat the opposition -- no matter how bad for the country. Madness pretending to be politics

 

Unions mate it was all about unions! lol

 

It 's the people who vote for the party, that gives the party the mandate to do what it does, it is not just about party politics.  

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, CharlieK said:

 

Unions mate it was all about unions! lol

 

It 's the people who vote for the party, that gives the party the mandate to do what it does, it is not just about party politics.  

I agree -- but I wasn't going to complicate the discussion by dragging in the relationships between Unions and Political Parties.  Let's keep it simple for the numpties

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, jpinx said:

No demonstration of the situation is needed -- it's clear as day. Unfortunately people still can not see past the personalities.  If Thatcher had not been there, there would have been another leader to take on the mantle that created the society which emerged.  Thatcher was extensively guided, and therein lies the problem.  It's not the numbers and statistics, and it's not the egos that are interesting, it's the reason for the policies being formed at all.  Anything to beat the opposition -- no matter how bad for the country. Madness pretending to be politics

 

OK, no personalities.

 

In the UK (more than other EU countries) WE THE PEOPLE have allowed GREED to become all powerful and at the expense of everything else such as egalitarianism and civil society generally. If we are not careful we slide further towards American levels of inequality and civil breakdown. 

[jpinx]

We're doomed !!  (Dad's Army)  :)

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-13/chaos-ensues-europe-splinters-response-trump-uk-france-hungary-snub-eu-emergency-mee

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-14/eirexit-coming

 

This is developing faster than we can discuss it.  It's got all the hallmarks of a landslide......

Edited November 14, 2016 by jpinx

[CharlieK]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

 

OK, no personalities.

 

In the UK (more than other EU countries) WE THE PEOPLE have allowed GREED to become all powerful and at the expense of everything else such as egalitarianism and civil society generally. If we are not careful we slide further towards American levels of inequality and civil breakdown. 

 

It's happening now. The state pension will disappear, the NHS will be privatised, and people will have to be more self reliant. Even the dole will be food stamps, not cash. There is a reason politicians won't tell the people this. So it is done slowly in the hope that people won't notice till it is too late.

the State can't support the social security system, NHS etc even with full employment there wouldn't be enough funds to dish out.  

[Khun Han]

33 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/14/jo-cox-killed-in-politically-motivated-murder-trial-thomas-mair-hears?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

There you go Mr F.... drama queen


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A politically motivated murder by a man with a long history of mental illness, an obsession with ultra-right wing American websites, and no connections to any British right wing groups. And you are desperate to connect him to the brexit leave movement. Mr F.... drama queen indeed. Pathetic, and an insult to the memory of Jo Cox, who was mourned right across the political spectrum in the UK.

[Johnyo]

 

A politically motivated murder by a man with a long history of mental illness, an obsession with ultra-right wing American websites, and no connections to any British right wing groups. And you are desperate to connect him to the brexit leave movement. Mr F.... drama queen indeed. Pathetic, and an insult to the memory of Jo Cox, who was mourned right across the political spectrum in the UK.

You are a lost case.

During the attack, Whittam said, Aswat could hear Mair saying: “Britain first, this is for Britain, Britain will always come first.”

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[jpinx]

 A new thread for discussing the possibility of the EU being dismantled is here.....

 

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, jpinx said:

now what does that tells us

That there are more countries than those you identify.

Why?

[CharlieK]

17 minutes ago, jpinx said:

 A new thread for discussing the possibility of the EU being dismantled is here.....

 

 

It is very difficult to take you seriously with some of your posts! 

 

Just who would dismantle the EU? Do you think Merkel is going to say OK it's not working lets dismantle it? That is just not even a realistic question to ask. The question is. Will the EU survive on it's present course, reform or collapse? 

 

As if Junker/Merkel/Hollande would ever admit the EU is failing. 

[Khun Han]

13 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

You are a lost case.

During the attack, Whittam said, Aswat could hear Mair saying: “Britain first, this is for Britain, Britain will always come first.”

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It's lost cause. And you are hopelessly lost on this issue. You are trying to make a connection where there is none. If some basket case were to go out and murder Nigel Farage and claim 'This one's for Hillary and the USA', someone else claiming that this act was representative of the US Democrat party and what it stands for wouldn't be any dafter than your claim that the nutter who murdered Jo Cox had some sort of connection to the brexit leave movement.

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

 

It is very difficult to take you seriously with some of your posts! 

 

Just who would dismantle the EU? Do you think Merkel is going to say OK it's not working lets dismantle it? That is just not even a realistic question to ask. The question is. Will the EU survive on it's present course, reform or collapse? 

 

As if Junker/Merkel/Hollande would ever admit the EU is failing. 

It's a moot point since the thread was disallowed.

 

Certainly they won't volunteer to dismantle the EU, but they would have to react if the threat of so many countries exiting was realised. 

[jpinx]

10 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

That there are more countries than those you identify.

Why?

That was the selection for countries over 300 b GDP. 

Why do so many of the worlds major countries have a falling GDP?

[CharlieK]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

It's a moot point since the thread was disallowed.

 

Certainly they won't volunteer to dismantle the EU, but they would have to react if the threat of so many countries exiting was realised. 

 

We have seen their reaction. " more federalism" realistically they either have to reform the EU or it collapses. for one thing the markets would react faster than the governments could. In short the governments would be left to pick up the pieces.

 

Even with the UK leaving? I don't think the collapse of the EU benefits anyone. I think it would be a disaster. 

 

   

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, Johnyo said:

 

You need to watch a program on Channel 4 called Benefits Streets. I think there are a few episodes in you tube. These people apparently are being robbed of jobs by foreigners. It's a really good laugh. Like these useless unemployable creatures you will find across the length and width of the country.


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They voted for Brexit because their monopoly on benefits for a lifetime was under threat by foreigners!

 

[CharlieK]

12 minutes ago, jpinx said:

That was the selection for countries over 300 b GDP. 

Why do so many of the worlds major countries have a falling GDP?

 

Where have you been these last 8+ years? look around you the answer is out there. 

[Johnyo]

 
It's lost cause. And you are hopelessly lost on this issue. You are trying to make a connection where there is none. If some basket case were to go out and murder Nigel Farage and claim 'This one's for Hillary and the USA', someone else claiming that this act was representative of the US Democrat party and what it stands for wouldn't be any dafter than your claim that the nutter who murdered Jo Cox had some sort of connection to the brexit leave movement.

OK you keep telling yourself that the murder would have happened anyway regardless of the vile leave campaign. You sad delusional individual.


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[Johnyo]

 
They voted for Brexit because their monopoly on benefits for a lifetime was under threat by foreigners!
 

Indeed.


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[Khun Han]

42 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

OK you keep telling yourself that the murder would have happened anyway regardless of the vile leave campaign. You sad delusional individual.


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You're pathetic and deluded. Trying to pin a murder by someone with serious mental health issues on a cause you oppose. Get a life.

[Laughing Gravy]

11 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

2016 is the "Year of the Numpties" ... Brexit, Trump ... a chav revolt by the working man led by right wing agenda laden Tories and the crypto-racist UKIP. 

I actually think it is the catalyst for an even bigger upset in 2017, to see the populist peoples revolt against the EU. The statement you have mentioned is the attitude that is going to destroy the EU and the establishment who just do not see people want change. Calling them derogative names such as Chavs  and racists, is just the closed mentality that is providing these so called numpties into power.

[Laughing Gravy]

8 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

A politically motivated murder by a man with a long history of mental illness, an obsession with ultra-right wing American websites, and no connections to any British right wing groups. And you are desperate to connect him to the brexit leave movement. Mr F.... drama queen indeed. Pathetic, and an insult to the memory of Jo Cox, who was mourned right across the political spectrum in the UK.

Nobody denies that it was a tragedy. At the time there was a lot of misreporting of the facts in the mainstream media, BBC and SKY etc. The non mainstream media were saying and interviewing people given a more balanced view.  Seems some of the lies mentioned then have since been dismissed.

The remain campaign didn't half milk the whole situation and played and pulled on peoples heart strings like nothing. Absolutely disgraceful. Much worse in my opinion than any politician making an assumption, of what might or might not be used for the NHS, as an example.