May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[aright]

9 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I think the only point that has been proven here is that your comprehension is at a low ebb, perhaps read more slowly!

The point that has been proven is you can't debate the illiberal undemocratic stand  that the unelected Cabal in Brussels has taken. Perhaps you should think more cogently and constructively. We can't have an exchange of views if you turn your back on the too hard questions and regard them as mere noise. I will try the question again. 

What right does an illiberal, unelected Cabal in Brussels have to tell an elected Government anywhere what to do? 

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, aright said:

The point that has been proven is you can't debate the illiberal undemocratic stand  that the unelected Cabal in Brussels has taken. Perhaps you should think more cogently and constructively. We can't have an exchange of views if you turn your back on the too hard questions and regard them as mere noise. I will try the question again. 

What right does an illiberal, unelected Cabal in Brussels have to tell an elected Government anywhere what to do? 

A question coming from the guys who supported Royal Prerogative Vs Parliament.

[Khun Han]

19 minutes ago, aright said:

I think you just proved my point

 

Debating with remainers always comes down to proving that a fantasy which keeps being exposed by facts is going to carry on being exposed by facts. Any one see Christine Lagarde's presentation today (why isn't she in prison?)? According to her, steady growth in the UK's economy proves that her organisation's prediction of immediate recession post-brexit referendum amounts to the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to Christine Lagarde's Mad Hatter's Tea Party.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Debating with remainers always comes down to proving that a fantasy which keeps being exposed by facts is going to carry on being exposed by facts. Any one see Christine Lagarde's presentation today (why isn't she in prison?)? According to her, steady growth in the UK's economy proves that her organisation's prediction of immediate recession post-brexit referendum amounts to the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to Christine Lagarde's Mad Hatter's Tea Party.

Of course the Conspiracy Theorist guys are not Mad Hatters supporting Putin and Le Pen.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

The point that has been proven is you can't debate the illiberal undemocratic stand  that the unelected Cabal in Brussels has taken. Perhaps you should think more cogently and constructively. We can't have an exchange of views if you turn your back on the too hard questions and regard them as mere noise. I will try the question again. 

What right does an illiberal, unelected Cabal in Brussels have to tell an elected Government anywhere what to do? 

1

"What right does.......".  It starts with the Massstricht Treaty and continues every other amendment and bill that was agreed by members subsequently.

 

But I'm sorry, I'm not interested in discussing your perception of  what is illiberal and undemocratic, that is all history, the causes of which can all be traced back to fact. I'm far more interested in the future than the past, in particular, I'm interested in the economic impact of Brexit, which is why I have asked Team Brexit about that aspect for many many months and still not received any answers. So no, I'm not going to debate noise and help you further your deflection.

[simoh1490]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Debating with remainers always comes down to proving that a fantasy which keeps being exposed by facts is going to carry on being exposed by facts. Any one see Christine Lagarde's presentation today (why isn't she in prison?)? According to her, steady growth in the UK's economy proves that her organisation's prediction of immediate recession post-brexit referendum amounts to the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to Christine Lagarde's Mad Hatter's Tea Party.

Which fantasy and fact is that then Han, it would be out of character for Team Brexit to present supportable fact, did I overlook a post somewhere?

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed.

 

[aright]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

A question coming from the guys who supported Royal Prerogative Vs Parliament.

Get yourself into 2017. Modern day Royal Prerogatives are made by representatives of the Crown (Ministers) rather than the Queen who has limited power.

[Khun Han]

Just now, SheungWan said:

Of course the Conspiracy Theorist guys are not Mad Hatters supporting Putin and Le Pen.

 

That's not the first time you've accused me of supporting Le Pen, and it's not the first time you've accused me of supporting Putin. I don't mind your fey posts normally, but if you don't straighten yourself up with the fake accusations, I'll start reporting your posts.

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Which fantasy and fact is that then Han, it would be out of character for Team Brexit to present supportable fact, did I overlook a post somewhere?

 

The fantasy that things will get much worse under brexit. So far, remain has been proven wrong time and time again, despite the best efforts of Project Fear to mess things up just enough to scare the British people. Project Fear can't scare the people, so now they just have to manipulate the politicians.

[Grouse]

44 minutes ago, aright said:

I think you just proved my point

Quite the reverse. May and her devious mob use "the people have decided" as a fig leaf to provide threadbare cover for their plans to further enrich the few at the expense of the majority. The irony is that the majority of those who will be worse off are Brexiters! They just don't see it! Do they really think that the Cons only wish to uphold the result of a referendum from a year and a half ago and have no ulterior motive? ?

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, aright said:

Get yourself into 2017. Modern day Royal Prerogatives are made by representatives of the Crown (Ministers) rather than the Queen who has limited power.

 

Ministers who are trying (against undemocratic forces) to carry out the decision of a massively-subscribed referendum.

[simoh1490]

Debating the issues, supporting arguments with evidence and facts, those are the ways to win the debate. Of course, trying to get the presenter banned is another way, the trouble is, that doesn't actually win the argument, it merely delays it. If current debating tactics are such that we're now going to have to scrutinise every written word in case it can potentially be viewed as insulting or inflammatory, that would be really really sad and kind self-defeating, a hollow victory for some perhaps, not my idea of an enjoyable debate at all.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The fantasy that things will get much worse under brexit. So far, remain has been proven wrong time and time again, despite the best efforts of Project Fear to mess things up just enough to scare the British people. Project Fear can't scare the people, so now they just have to manipulate the politicians.

If you jump off the top of a tall building you will die, that's not a fantasy, that's reality.

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The fantasy that things will get much worse under brexit. So far, remain has been proven wrong time and time again, despite the best efforts of Project Fear to mess things up just enough to scare the British people. Project Fear can't scare the people, so now they just have to manipulate the politicians.

Incorrect yet again

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.html

 

 

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Debating the issues, supporting arguments with evidence and facts, those are the ways to win the debate. Of course, trying to get the presenter banned is another way, the trouble is, that doesn't actually win the argument, it merely delays it. If current debating tactics are such that we're now going to have to scrutinise every written word in case it can potentially be viewed as insulting or inflammatory, that would be really really sad and kind self-defeating, a hollow victory for some perhaps, not my idea of an enjoyable debate at all.

 

Which puts into perspective your sustained (and successful) campaign to get me suspended under your old user name in this very thread after I quoted one of your posts and the forum software removed some embedded quotes in your quoted post, and you complained to the mods about me 'editing' your post even after I'd explained to you that the forum software was the villain. I got a two day suspension off the back of that. Proud of yourself?

[simoh1490]

14 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The fantasy that things will get much worse under brexit. So far, remain has been proven wrong time and time again, despite the best efforts of Project Fear to mess things up just enough to scare the British people. Project Fear can't scare the people, so now they just have to manipulate the politicians.

How much proof do you really need on this: 

 

"Regrettably the numbers we are seeing today are actually proving the point that we made a year and a half ago [just before the Brexit vote] when people said, 'you are too gloomy, you are one of those experts'," she said.

"Unfortunately we were not too gloomy, we were pretty much on the mark, or within 0.1pc or so. Our forecast actually turned out to be the reality of the economy, which is one where sterling has depreciated, inflation has gone up, wages have been squeezed as a result and investment has been down, and certainly lower than we would expect it to be."

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/12/20/protect-city-brexit-imf-warns-downgrades-growth/

 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Which puts into perspective your sustained (and successful) campaign to get me suspended under your old user name in this very thread after I quoted one of your posts and the forum software removed some embedded quotes in your quoted post, and you complained to the mods about me 'editing' your post even after I'd explained to you that the forum software was the villain. I got a two day suspension off the back of that. Proud of yourself?

For goodness sake not again, how many times have you raised that same point in these debates and been told it never happened! Enough already!!

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

How much proof do you really need on this: 

 

"Regrettably the numbers we are seeing today are actually proving the point that we made a year and a half ago [just before the Brexit vote] when people said, 'you are too gloomy, you are one of those experts'," she said.

"Unfortunately we were not too gloomy, we were pretty much on the mark, or within 0.1pc or so. Our forecast actually turned out to be the reality of the economy, which is one where sterling has depreciated, inflation has gone up, wages have been squeezed as a result and investment has been down, and certainly lower than we would expect it to be."

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/12/20/protect-city-brexit-imf-warns-downgrades-growth/

 

 

Where is the recession? We were supposed to have an immediate and sustained recession. Where is it?

[Khun Han]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

For goodness sake not again, how many times have you raised that same point in these debates and been told it never happened! Enough already!!

 

Huh? It didn't happen? Simoh1490, your credibility just went out of the window. Keep up the prose though. Remain posters are very forgiving of your type.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Where is the recession? We were supposed to have an immediate and sustained recession. Where is it?

Why are you even bothering to waste time with such a silly question, it's been said probably hundreds of times before in these debates that the estimated timing of project fear components was wrong yet the detail was pretty much spot on, please let's not have this same circular debate again, it's pointless and wastes everyone's time.

[Grouse]

22 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Quite the reverse. May and her devious mob use "the people have decided" as a fig leaf to provide threadbare cover for their plans to further enrich the few at the expense of the majority. The irony is that the majority of those who will be worse off are Brexiters! They just don't see it! Do they really think that the Cons only wish to uphold the result of a referendum from a year and a half ago and have no ulterior motive? ?

I see you are confused Aright. Do you not understand any of my post? Too subtle?

 

Would you like me to explain it to you?

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Why are you even bothering to waste time with such a silly question, it's been said probably hundreds of times before in these debates that the estimated timing of project fear components was wrong yet the detail was pretty much spot on, please let's not have this same circular debate again, it's pointless and wastes everyone's time.

 

The detail is 99% wrong. We are supposed to be in recession now. But we're not. And there are no signs of that scenario happening. Why  do you exponents of Project Fear even bother to labour the subject any more? Your parrot is dead, deceased. no more.

[aright]

 

28 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

"What right does.......".  It starts with the Massstricht Treaty and continues every other amendment and bill that was agreed by members subsequently.

 

But I'm sorry, I'm not interested in discussing your perception of  what is illiberal and undemocratic, that is all history, the causes of which can all be traced back to fact. I'm far more interested in the future than the past, in particular, I'm interested in the economic impact of Brexit, which is why I have asked Team Brexit about that aspect for many many months and still not received any answers. So no, I'm not going to debate noise and help you further your deflection.

You keep proving my point. The Maastricht Treaty approved undemocratic behavior did it? The Treaty said Brussels could impose its will on any one did it?

Did you read the Telegraph article? You certainly didn't understand it. It's thrust had nothing to do with history The Hapsburgs was a historic preamble to what's going on today. My post was not about what the UK is moving toward but what it's moving away from and if you feel you don't want to participate fine, stop crying and stay off the post. . You want me to stay in the EU but when I question their values you don't respond. For the last time, . What right does an unelected, illiberal Cabal in Brussels have to tell a democratically elected government anywhere what they have to do?

 

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The detail is 99% wrong. We are supposed to be in recession now. But we're not. And there are no signs of that scenario happening. Why  do you exponents of Project Fear even bother to labour the subject any more? Your parrot is dead, deceased. no more.

I'm sorry Han I can't participate in a debate with you if you continue to deny fact and make things up, that's not what a debate is supposed to be about.

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

 

You keep proving my point. The Maastricht Treaty approved undemocratic behavior did it? The Treaty said Brussels could impose its will on any one did it?

Did you read the Telegraph article? You certainly didn't understand it. It's thrust had nothing to do with history The Hapsburgs was a historic preamble to what's going on today. My post was not about what the UK is moving toward but what it's moving away from and if you feel you don't want to participate fine, stop crying and stay off the post. . You want me to stay in the EU but when I question their values you don't respond. For the last time, . What right does an unelected, illiberal Cabal in Brussels have to tell a democratically elected government anywhere what they have to do?

 

 "It starts with the Massstricht Treaty and continues every other amendment and bill that was agreed by members subsequently".

 

"But I'm sorry, I'm not interested in discussing your perception of  what is illiberal and undemocratic, that is all history, the causes of which can all be traced back to fact. I'm far more interested in the future than the past, in particular, I'm interested in the economic impact of Brexit, which is why I have asked Team Brexit about that aspect for many many months and still not received any answers. So no, I'm not going to debate noise and help you further your deflection".

[aright]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I see you are confused Aright. Do you not understand any of my post? Too subtle?

 

Would you like me to explain it to you?

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I'm sorry Han I can't participate in a debate with you if you continue to deny fact and make things up, that's not what a debate is supposed to be about.

 

Simoh1490 I'm sorry that you are incapable of debating facts. I'm a firm believer in the ability of people to improve themselves. Good luck.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Khun Han

[aright]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

 "It starts with the Massstricht Treaty and continues every other amendment and bill that was agreed by members subsequently".

 

"But I'm sorry, I'm not interested in discussing your perception of  what is illiberal and undemocratic, that is all history, the causes of which can all be traced back to fact. I'm far more interested in the future than the past, in particular, I'm interested in the economic impact of Brexit, which is why I have asked Team Brexit about that aspect for many many months and still not received any answers. So no, I'm not going to debate noise and help you further your deflection".

My apologies for moving you out of your comfort zone

[Srikcir]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

We are supposed to be in recession now. But we're not.

Correct. Recession is defined by negative growth.

GDP growth for 2017 will come in at less than 1% [but greater than zero].

However, the UK’s Office for National Statistics says that the trend is downward, reflecting “relatively strong consumption volumes, increasing consumer prices and subdued wage growth.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/06/30/three-reasons-why-the-uk-could-be-going-into-recession/#7ba112095367