35 minutes ago, aright said:

Can you fill in the gaps and implications?  

The point being, that was then, this is now, dwelling on nostalgia doesn't really do much for us going forward.

I was just responding and disagreeing with your claim that islands are not as economically successful as countries that are joined with others however you didn't seem to want to respond to my disagreement   Speculating as to what might have happened if.................is me. I'm not asking you to accept my speculation.You seem to want to ignore history when its convenient to your argument.

Remembering what a great singer Nat King Cole was is nostalgia ignoring  history and its lessons is ignorance.

People who ignore the lessons of history have no past or future. 

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

It seems to me countries that are islands are typically not as economically successful as countries that are joined with others. The exception is where the island country has a strong economic connection with the neighbouring countries such as in the case of Singapore and Malaysia, Taiwan & China, New Zealand & Australia and Japan & China/Korea. If those things are true, the evidence is that we need a good trading relationship with Europe, in fact, it's probably essential to our economic survival, the only question is, how close should that relationship be. Clearly, when we joined the EU we believed it should be closer not farther, now we believe it should be the opposite, my sense is we think that for the wrong reasons, baby & bathwater and all that.

 

 

 

Both New Zealand and Australia are islands with small populations who have always traded mostly with nations thousands of miles away, and there are lots of countries physically closer to both than Japan. Japan and Taiwan built their modern industrial bases on trading mostly with countries on the other side of the world, and at the time that this happened China was a third world country and South Korea an economic basket case. 

19 minutes ago, aright said:

I was just responding and disagreeing with your claim that islands are not as economically successful as countries that are joined with others however you didn't seem to want to respond to my disagreement   Speculating as to what might have happened if.................is me. I'm not asking you to accept my speculation.You seem to want to ignore history when its convenient to your argument.

Remembering what a great singer Nat King Cole was is nostalgia ignoring  history and its lessons is ignorance.

People who ignore the lessons of history have no past or future. 

I'm actually very big on applying the lessons from history but that's an aside, I just think that because we did this/that before that we could or even should do it again. Again, we thought it was a good idea to join at one point, now we think it's a good idea to leave, except we're not leaving because the trade aspect of the union if bad, far from it. TBH "we" haven't thought it through properly and we've allowed the desire for any change at any price to cloud our collective judgement, that along with not understanding as a nation why it is we want to leave. Sure, everyone has their own reason for wanting us to leave, trouble is, everyone's got different reasons!

Gotta go, off to Sukhothai for three days so no internet, in case you thought I was running away from the debate. 

Got to get off to Sukhothai...........is that sexual? 

14 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I'm hoping for a super state, why should it rip itself apart, China and America are basically just super states, they both were once many separate states and in the case of China there are ethnic and language differences. As for clique dictatorship what do you think the UK is, it's a merry go round full of people far removed from the worries of the local plebs, silver spoons and public schools. Compared to the past all the European countries including the UK (Scotland,Wales,Northern Ireland,England, go back further and they were even more split up into different kingdoms) are super states, Germany was only relatively recently a united country under Bismark ( don't forget the war) The EU is just evolution.

The EU is already self-destructing. Look at Brexit, discontent with immigration policies in several countries (including Germany) and the economic and high unemployment mess in southern Europe. Yet the pompous EU ringmasters just continue on with their plans for rapid centralization of powers. 

 

The EU has no similarities to the US or China. The closest example is the former USSR and look what happened to that!

 

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

The point being, that was then, this is now, dwelling on nostalgia doesn't really do much for us going forward.

But didn't Simon say: "I'm actually very big on applying the lessons from history"? - post 13114 

30 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The EU is already self-destructing. Look at Brexit, discontent with immigration policies in several countries (including Germany) and the economic and high unemployment mess in southern Europe. Yet the pompous EU ringmasters just continue on with their plans for rapid centralization of powers. 

 

The EU has no similarities to the US or China. The closest example is the former USSR and look what happened to that!

 

people have been predicting the demise of the EU and the Euro since their inception and they are still here, yes it has its problems but so has just about every country in the world. The EU and the Euro will still be here when my children are old and will probably eventually include Russia (and the UK) to make Europe the most prosperous place to be in the world while America will have grown old and decline before its time and the only competitor for Europe will be China. Nostradamus is sh1t compared to me.

15 hours ago, soalbundy said:

people have been predicting the demise of the EU and the Euro since their inception and they are still here, yes it has its problems but so has just about every country in the world. The EU and the Euro will still be here when my children are old and will probably eventually include Russia (and the UK) to make Europe the most prosperous place to be in the world while America will have grown old and decline before its time and the only competitor for Europe will be China. Nostradamus is sh1t compared to me.

All empires and world powers collapse. The EU is next.

29 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

people have been predicting the demise of the EU and the Euro since their inception and they are still here, yes it has its problems but so has just about every country in the world. The EU and the Euro will still be here when my children are old and will probably eventually include Russia (and the UK) to make Europe the most prosperous place to be in the world while America will have grown old and decline before its time and the only competitor for Europe will be China. Nostradamus is sh1t compared to me.

The EU still here after all of 26 years! Wow. Bit it's already imploding. The EU is not a country.

 

Your predictions will about as accurate as Mystic Meg's. Or is that you, Meg? Is anybody theeere??

 

 

20 hours ago, soalbundy said:

She was right in a lot of things, I just think it is the most likely outcome, it's going to end in tears financially, and as for 'freedom' what a laugh, serfs bickering about who they want as lord of the manor, they can't even stop the freebee's in the house of lords, can't reform the NHS, the worst pensions in Western Europe, the most expensive fares for public transport and unmitigated violence on the streets, of course it's all the fault of the EU.

"serfs bickering about who they want as lord of the manor, they can't even stop the freebee's in the house of lords, can't reform the NHS, the worst pensions in Western Europe, the most expensive fares for public transport"

 

Agree entirely, and would add many other items to that list .

 

Spain 'breaks EU ranks' to DEFY Angela Merkel and back minimum tariff Brexit deal with UK.

 

Good news for some!

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/904081/brexit-eu-spain-angela-merkel-theresa-may-uk-netherlands-germany-mariano-rajoy

 

 

37 minutes ago, aright said:

 

Spain 'breaks EU ranks' to DEFY Angela Merkel and back minimum tariff Brexit deal with UK.

 

Good news for some!

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/904081/brexit-eu-spain-angela-merkel-theresa-may-uk-netherlands-germany-mariano-rajoy

 

 

 

So that's now six countries that have broken ranks from the 'united' EU (translated as the Germany/ France axis).

16 hours ago, aright said:

 

Spain 'breaks EU ranks' to DEFY Angela Merkel and back minimum tariff Brexit deal with UK.

 

Good news for some!

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/904081/brexit-eu-spain-angela-merkel-theresa-may-uk-netherlands-germany-mariano-rajoy

 

 

This is awful news, wheres Verhofstad when you need him? The empire cant crumble before the forum debate is finished, and the UK punished.

 

Post-Brexit politics look brightest for the Tories – they have learnt their lessons from the last election.

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/post-brexit-politics-look-brightest-141917054.html

On 1/13/2018 at 7:45 AM, simoh1490 said:

Was.....Prior to World War II......if World War I hadn't happened, oh dear!

 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:50 AM, aright said:

Can you fill in the gaps and implications?  

One of the typical rubbish deflections: 'If this..., if that...'

16 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

One of the typical rubbish deflections: 'If this..., if that...'

Hello!  Snow White has laid off another dwarf!

15 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

One of the typical rubbish deflections: 'If this..., if that...'

Remarkable.

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

One of the typical rubbish deflections: 'If this..., if that...'

 

5 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Remarkable.

Actually those types of deflections rather mundane and empty. Doesn't stop the proponents from pushing their daft agendas though.

Seems all is coming to light and the eu are facing the reality of the UK leaving. Au voir

2 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Seems all is coming to light and the eu are facing the reality of the UK leaving. Au voir

I think you are trying to say Au Revoir.

16 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I think you are trying to say Au Revoir.

Remarkable.

7 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Remarkable.

 

52 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Remarkable.

Such a surprise when hard brexiteers mutate into a stuck record.

16 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

Such a surprise when hard brexiteers mutate into a stuck record.

I didn't vote, but after reading posts in this topic, I am now, a hard brexiter.

You've done remarkably well, thank you.

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

Such a surprise when hard brexiteers mutate into a stuck record.

I enjoy the record!

 

 

Brexit shock: No deal will cost EU £500billion

PRESSURE was last night mounting on the EU to sign a free-trade agreement with Britain after a report revealed that a “no deal” scenario could cost the bloc more than £500billion.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/904339/brexit-news-eu-uk-no-deal-free-trade-agreement-economists-for-free-trade

On 1/13/2018 at 12:12 PM, talahtnut said:

All empires and world powers collapse. The EU is next.

I think the UK will reach the end of the road before the EU does.

15 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I think the UK will reach the end of the road before the EU does.

I wouldn't like to bet on which one goes down the pan first.

Time to remove my 9 pound note from the bank.

25 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I think the UK will reach the end of the road before the EU does.

Based on what?