Young children suffering due to being pushed too hard in school: psychiatrist

[WhizBang]

...runs the child psychology fanpage...

 

 

Pretty much tells me all I need to know about the credibility of this 'expert'.

 

[bark]

10 hours ago, Keesters said:

 

Dr Benjaporn Tuntasood has now had his 1 minute of fame. Moving on.

 

 

Only 14 more to go.

[owenm]

My Thai stepdaughter, moved to Australia with her mum, from age 3 for 7 years. She excelled in everything at school, and learning english. Her brain was like a sponge absorbing it all.. Friendly, happy and respectful. After 3 years back in Thailand, at age 13, an out of control, rude, selfish, and disrespecting teenager.. Verbal and violent physical attacks against parents and grandparents. She is excelling still at school, a Thai private school, with EP, but her social skills have been permanently scarred, to being a troublesome, selfish and rude young teenager.. And this change in behaviour has only occured since this young troublesome teenager changed from an Australian education system to a Thai system. We have been estranged now for the past 12 months, due to me trying to teach her right from wrong, and about respecting others and behavioural issues.. Which all backfired in my face...  This I blame solely on the Thai education system.... 

[joeyg]

8 hours ago, alex8912 said:

I think "averages" of a country with 325 million people and in turn way more school age children isn't a good comparison at all.  What I'd like to see compared are the top 10 or 20% of  students in different countries. You know damn well that the top 10% of American or British or many other countries students are going to kick butt in their future regarding both science and math and in turn innovations and salary for example than the top 10 or even 5% of Thai students. I bet the differences are huge. 

LOL!!! International Students Are 70% Of EE Grad Students In U.S.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2013/07/15/international-students-are-70-of-ee-grad-students-in-u-s/#469fd6f24da5 

 

[TKDfella]

To some extent I believe it's a question of priorities. They want all children to keep old fashioned Thai culture alive and then are surprised when many fail academically. Yes, it is important to keep culture alive but there has to be a balance and unfortunately I don't think Thai culture and academic subjects go hand in hand.

[RigPig]

Yes learning to ask why is a hinderance to Thai culture for sure, disrespect all that stuff, DEFINATELY NO GOOD!!

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, owenm said:

My Thai stepdaughter, moved to Australia with her mum, from age 3 for 7 years. She excelled in everything at school, and learning english. Her brain was like a sponge absorbing it all.. Friendly, happy and respectful. After 3 years back in Thailand, at age 13, an out of control, rude, selfish, and disrespecting teenager.. Verbal and violent physical attacks against parents and grandparents. She is excelling still at school, a Thai private school, with EP, but her social skills have been permanently scarred, to being a troublesome, selfish and rude young teenager.. And this change in behaviour has only occured since this young troublesome teenager changed from an Australian education system to a Thai system. We have been estranged now for the past 12 months, due to me trying to teach her right from wrong, and about respecting others and behavioural issues.. Which all backfired in my face...  This I blame solely on the Thai education system.... 

I think it goes much deeper than the Thai (scholastic) education system, it's called Thainess which unfortunately is practiced by many Thais, - absolutely no direction , guidance, goals, control and a complete lack of polite, caring thoughtful role models.   

[Artisi]

Thai education, unfortunately is based on quantity and not quality. Being at school from 8 am till 5 pm then followed by tutor school all based on flawed teaching methods and delivery is about as beneficial as tits on a bull.

[Honthy]

I was a bit confused when I read this article. Immediately checked the calendar and; no. The today datum is  not 1st of April.  No......

[Rhys]

Giving the youngster a little guidance to succeed and fail, providing quality time from mom and dad, and giving a darn about the child that would help. Also, Thai Psychologist, would a bit of discipline  be helpful or would that contribute to a negative self-image or would you support the little emperor syndrome?

[Johpa]

14 hours ago, Jools said:

One of the worst school systems in the world.........but NOT because it's too hard.

 

Coming from the US where the public education system is, on average. also very mediocre (which explains the existence of a Trump or Palin candidacy) I  can not say whether Thailand's is the worst, but it is indeed very bad.  Yet many students are overloaded as their parents send them to after-school lessons every day, at least those who can afford it.  The grandchildren of my friends whose kids are modestly middle class, mainly bureaucrats, all send their kids to private lessons.  These kids are indeed a bit over worked and appear to me to be more socially challenged then the kids form the poorer families whose kids play soccer in the afternoon on the village field.  Problem is that the teachers in the after school private market are no better than the public school teachers who are indeed unqualified for the most part to provide a modern education than produces a person who can compete for the better jobs.  In the end the only thing they are being taught in Thailand is conformity, both in school and after school. But that will allow them to follow in their parent's footsteps and become good and obedient bureaucrats themselves, which is perhaps the best outcomes they could hope for as they can not compete with the kids from the wealthier families who are sent to the private schools.

 

There is an easy-read book that compares education systems from the view of exchange students: The Smartest Kids in the World by Ripley.  It gives some insights into the pros and cons of several national education systems including the US, Korea, and Finland.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

The validity of the opinion of this particular  phsycoatrist  I believe is  very  much dependant on the  locality of the  child students and the  type of institution.

With  no knowledge of possibly  more  affluent  urban situations  I  can only  comment on the  abysmal standard of education in my local rural area. What I have observed is  not  education as per the acquisition  of knowledge but rather the dictated expectation of the ability to comply  with given instruction rather than any meaningful academic comprehension.  Perhaps a deliberate policy in line with international guidelines?

Japan has many graduates  even at Master Degree level who only qualify for  menial occupations. Perhaps Thailand has taken heed of the  " systems" requirement of  10% of well educated. The insidious aspect of that is that 10% are  most likely to be from the well heeled. 

To put that in a realistic  perspective is to compare it with USA Presidential hopefuls or even recent previous Presidents.

[gk10002000]

15 hours ago, bontang said:

Re International Schools pushing Students to the limit or should i say very close to the Edge,

I can only speak for my daughter @ an International School in Chonburi district,

The School has high expectations & do over load the Students not with just simple subjects i.e Algbera Math, Sicience, Chemistary, Biology, plus many more high tech Subjects, My Daughter day starts @ 06.00am & she studies into the night up to 12 midnight,  As you know the International Schools are expensive I dont mind that so much but the Teachers handball 45% of their work to the Parents & the Students, Then they have their Social Events after School between 18.00 & 21.00 & expect to see all Students to attend,

All of those social events are all in the name of Money for the School, So are the School Management  realy thinking about the Students welfare,  Not really ,

 

If what you wrote is true, then I agree, that is way too much schooling.  I grew up in the USA, born in 1957.  So just for comparison I know we had very little homework.  Sure a few math problems now and then, book reports, a paper here and there, but mostly once we went home we were out playing in the snow or leaves or whatever was going on for the season it was.   I went to college, got a BS in Engineering, later a MS in Applied Math, was an Air Force Officer, later and aerospace engineer, etc.  My point being kids do need a lot of free time.   What is important is to make good use of the time during the day while in school.  And that means effective teaching, some "home room" time or free period where the kid can get his day's assignments done, etc. 

[hawker9000]

5 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

If what you wrote is true, then I agree, that is way too much schooling.  I grew up in the USA, born in 1957.  So just for comparison I know we had very little homework.  Sure a few math problems now and then, book reports, a paper here and there, but mostly once we went home we were out playing in the snow or leaves or whatever was going on for the season it was.   I went to college, got a BS in Engineering, later a MS in Applied Math, was an Air Force Officer, later and aerospace engineer, etc.  My point being kids do need a lot of free time.   What is important is to make good use of the time during the day while in school.  And that means effective teaching, some "home room" time or free period where the kid can get his day's assignments done, etc. 

Your experience was not necessarily typical.  I'm in about the same age group as you.  We had substantial, but not over burdensome, homework starting about the 4th or 5th grade as I remember it.  Maybe an hour or two each night altogether with a bit extra for the weekends and extra extra for holiday periods.  Bright kids and kids who'd listened & learned in class could maybe get it done in less.  Kids who'd paid no attention would've had to labor more.  'Course the degree to which it was actually DONE varied some; and academic achievement usually reflected that to some degree.  I don't remember teachers being that insistent about it discipline-wise; it just got reflected in lack of class participation and in grades and maybe during parent-teacher conferences.  You either handed in what you were supposed to hand in on time, put in the independent study that was expected, and were able to participate in class as expected -- or you didn't.  Teachers might jibe a usually-conscientious kid who missed getting something done, just to let them know they cared, but there was no real time wasted on shaming.  I was fortunate to grow up in a family where school was simply taken seriously.  My brothers & sisters & I all got our work done, all had chores to do, and still had plenty of time for all the other stuff.  Thinking back, most of my classmates seemed to be operating on the same basis.

 

Thai kids starting at 2!!??  'Seems likely to be counter-productive in the long run unless the kid's a Doogie Howser.  Study-time at home at night that rivals the length of the school-day itself also seems unreasonable.  But kids completing assignments at home on their own and on a daily routine basis is an important part of the process not only because kids need to be exercising independently in what they're learning but because a competent teacher needs to able to assess their individual progress and address weaknesses & gaps they see.  Regular, substantial homework is beneficial and necessary, BUT if homework is consuming every out-of-school moment, then the workload IS either excessive OR the kid is struggling and there's something that needs to be addressed.

Edited October 24, 2016 by hawker9000

[cumgranosalum]

12 hours ago, owenm said:

My Thai stepdaughter, moved to Australia with her mum, from age 3 for 7 years. She excelled in everything at school, and learning english. Her brain was like a sponge absorbing it all.. Friendly, happy and respectful. After 3 years back in Thailand, at age 13, an out of control, rude, selfish, and disrespecting teenager.. Verbal and violent physical attacks against parents and grandparents. She is excelling still at school, a Thai private school, with EP, but her social skills have been permanently scarred, to being a troublesome, selfish and rude young teenager.. And this change in behaviour has only occured since this young troublesome teenager changed from an Australian education system to a Thai system. We have been estranged now for the past 12 months, due to me trying to teach her right from wrong, and about respecting others and behavioural issues.. Which all backfired in my face...  This I blame solely on the Thai education system.... 

The plural of anecdote is not data; you're confusing association with causation  - I would also suggest that as your daughter is going through puberty , a lot of the problems are in fact down to parenting skills

[cumgranosalum]

2 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Your experience was not necessarily typical.  I'm in about the same age group as you.  We had substantial, but not over burdensome, homework starting about the 4th or 5th grade as I remember it.  Maybe an hour or two each night altogether with a bit extra for the weekends and extra extra for holiday periods.  Bright kids and kids who'd listened & learned in class could maybe get it done in less.  Kids who'd paid no attention would've had to labor more.  'Course the degree to which it was actually DONE varied some; and academic achievement usually reflected that to some degree.  I don't remember teachers being that insistent about it discipline-wise; it just got reflected in lack of class participation and in grades and maybe during parent-teacher conferences.  You either handed in what you were supposed to hand in on time, put in the independent study that was expected, and were able to participate in class as expected -- or you didn't.  Teachers might jibe a usually-conscientious kid who missed getting something done, just to let them know they cared, but there was no real time wasted on shaming.  I was fortunate to grow up in a family where school was simply taken seriously.  My brothers & sisters & I all got our work done, all had chores to do, and still had plenty of time for all the other stuff.  Thinking back, most of my classmates seemed to be operating on the same basis.

 

Thai kids starting at 2!!??  'Seems likely to be counter-productive in the long run unless the kid's a Doogie Howser.  Study-time at home at night that rivals the length of the school-day itself also seems unreasonable.  But kids completing assignments at home on their own and on a daily routine basis is an important part of the process not only because kids need to be exercising independently in what they're learning but because a competent teacher needs to able to assess their individual progress and address weaknesses & gaps they see.  Regular, substantial homework is beneficial and necessary, BUT if homework is consuming every out-of-school moment, then the workload IS either excessive OR the kid is struggling and there's something that needs to be addressed.

" We had substantial, but not over burdensome, homework" - a pure subjective appraisal of an individual experience.........

[LazySlipper]

23 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

With your attitude to the education of young children that's probably for the best. 

 

Right, so you endorse these findings?

 

You must be one of these parents who wants their children to have fun rather than learn. You probably don't understand the satisfaction a student gets when he or she actually accomplishes something that at first they did not understand or simply could not do because you probably believe that striving for success is a four letter word. 

 

Maybe you should try teaching...

 

Or you did not understand what I wrote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gk10002000]

I would add that the few children that somehow get motivated or get impressed by a teacher for whatever reason or reasons, those children are the ones that wander over to the library and browse around.  Or they are the kids that can sit down and read through books.  I happened to be a big reader of books considered very advanced in their English level early on.  Why or how?  Who knows?  Genetic disposition?  The fact my parents spoke very good English despite being bi lingual and spoke greek as they were first generation immigrants as my grandparents all came from Greece.  The fact my parents had a monstrous one foot thick dictionary over on the coffee table, or a few book shelves of books on Nature and the natural world, and a set of encyclopedias in the other shelf.  Maybe I was just curious.   So much depends on what goes on at the home environment.  Kids don't need two hours of homework every night.  I would fight that tooth and nail. Heck, grown ups don't handle 8 hours of work very well, yet they expect a kid to remain focused all day? 

[LazySlipper]

Who's talking about two hours of homework? Just getting kids to bring their necessary tools such as notebooks and pens, and pencils to school is already a challenge. Getting the kids to have their parents sign their homework books and having them stay in their seats are what I am referring to. 

 

 

 

[alex8912]

13 hours ago, joeyg said:

LOL!!! International Students Are 70% Of EE Grad Students In U.S.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2013/07/15/international-students-are-70-of-ee-grad-students-in-u-s/#469fd6f24da5 

 

I was talking about school age children as well as the thread was. Where  does this 21+++ age study talk about Thai students??  Yes many Chinese, Indian, etc students excel at US and British Universities. They were probably overloaded with home work in their younger days and exceled unlike Thai students. They also pay full tuition and get large grants from their home governments that US students do not get. They are very attractive to US Universities which make lots of money. They are also considered to be a "US or British"  student once they attend a university in that country by most people including myself. When I work with the hundreds of students  I encounter each year going to Harvard , MIT, Boston University, Tufts etc I consider them just another student at a US University not a Chinese student at Harvard or an Indian student at BU. Your LOL makes zero sense. 

[Bluespunk]

17 minutes ago, LazySlipper said:

 

Right, so you endorse these findings?

 

You must be one of these parents who wants their children to have fun rather than learn. You probably don't understand the satisfaction a student gets when he or she actually accomplishes something that at first they did not understand or simply could not do because you probably believe that striving for success is a four letter word. 

 

Maybe you should try teaching...

 

Or you did not understand what I wrote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I understood perfectly what you wrote and I certainly know more about teaching young children than you seem to be assuming. 

 

Ah, the irony of it all...

[joeyg]

5 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

I was talking about school age children as well as the thread was. Where  does this 21+++ age study talk about Thai students??  Yes many Chinese, Indian, etc students excel at US and British Universities. They were probably overloaded with home work in their younger days and exceled unlike Thai students. They also pay full tuition and get large grants from their home governments that US students do not get. They are very attractive to US Universities which make lots of money. They are also considered to be a "US or British"  student once they attend a university in that country by most people including myself. When I work with the hundreds of students  I encounter each year going to Harvard , MIT, Boston University, Tufts etc I consider them just another student at a US University not a Chinese student at Harvard or an Indian student at BU. Your LOL makes zero sense. 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[hawker9000]

1 hour ago, cumgranosalum said:

" We had substantial, but not over burdensome, homework" - a pure subjective appraisal of an individual experience.........

As is just about everything going on in this topic.  'Certainly true of the post I was responding to and in a way my point exactly.  Thank-you..

[cumgranosalum]

4 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

As is just about everything going on in this topic.  'Certainly true of the post I was responding to and in a way my point exactly.  Thank-you..

It reminds of the comment - "we had corporal punishment but it never did me any harm"

[hawker9000]

12 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

It reminds of the comment - "we had corporal punishment but it never did me any harm"

 

So now you're comparing "homework" to "corporal punishment"??   LOL   Well, yeah, I guess most third-graders would.

[Wilsonandson]

Homework is wrong for young children. Go out and play.

[Ace of Pop]

If your child is having a problem, the above may apply.   If a particular group of kids at some schools are having trouble, the above may apply.  
 
If a nation is having a problem, the above probably doesn't apply....at least not directly.  

It's not hard to see Scott has teached for 20 years when one compare his posts against the preppy pup kids who recon they are Teachers.Im so pleased my kids didn't have Lefty nits,,just nice well balanced folk circa 50/60 years old.Yes they did get a smack in the ear mow n then.but done O.K..independent of me now, they were Boarders at Church of Assumption College Ubon Rat


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[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, Ace of Pop said:

It's not hard to see Scott has teached for 20 years when one compare his posts against the preppy pup kids who recon they are Teachers.Im so pleased my kids didn't have Lefty nits,,just nice well balanced folk circa 50/60 years old.Yes they did get a smack in the ear mow n then.but done O.K..independent of me now, they were Boarders at Church of Assumption College Ubon Rat


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- "Yes they did get a smack in the ear mow n then.but done O.K" -

 

wish one could say the same for their Dad...."It's not hard to see Scott has teached for 20 years"

Edited October 25, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

2 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

 

So now you're comparing "homework" to "corporal punishment"??   LOL   Well, yeah, I guess most third-graders would.

looks like you're a bit short on comprehension there.

[Ace of Pop]

Please avoid education as a career option. 

I did consider it once But decided to be well of later on in life so I got a real job


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