Bobm1 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 My girlfriend and I purchased a house with a loan nearly 10 years ago, I signed as guarantor on the loan and have made all the payments through her bank account the loan is nearly paid off now and I want to protect the property so that she can't sell it or borrow money against it once the loan is paid off, is it possible to get a contract set up through a lawyer where I pay off the remainder of the loan and have her give me a 30 year lease in such a way that she has no opportunity to sell the house? She will of course have to agree to it. Does anyone know a good honest lawyer to help with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcab Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 If you have a lease she can still sell the house. It just means it is less likely someone will want to buy the property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I don't believe you can stop her from selling the land itself but the new owner would have to honor the lease which makes it unlikely that anyone would want to purchase the land. That being said, a new buyer (or your girlfriend should she become an ex-girlfriend) may want to incentivize you to end your lease early. I'm sure you can think of plenty of ways someone could make you want to move. And this being Thailand, perhaps even the police are in for a cut to help you decide that maybe you want to end your lease early. I'm not suggesting that that is a likely scenario but it is a possibility so keep that in mind if you think that a 30 year lease gives you some sort of legal protection. How much do you think it would cost for the cops to find some child porn on your laptop or drugs in your home if someone really wants you to move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laochef Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 As said above, she can certainly sell the property. But if you have a lease, registered with the land department, the new owner can not kick you out before the lease runs out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 4 hours ago, blackcab said: If you have a lease she can still sell the house. It just means it is less likely someone will want to buy the property. Yes she can still sell it but the less still has to be honoured by the new buyers and the new buys can't live in it for the 30 years. so she has not hop of selling it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, digibum said: I don't believe you can stop her from selling the land itself but the new owner would have to honor the lease which makes it unlikely that anyone would want to purchase the land. That being said, a new buyer (or your girlfriend should she become an ex-girlfriend) may want to incentivize you to end your lease early. I'm sure you can think of plenty of ways someone could make you want to move. And this being Thailand, perhaps even the police are in for a cut to help you decide that maybe you want to end your lease early. I'm not suggesting that that is a likely scenario but it is a possibility so keep that in mind if you think that a 30 year lease gives you some sort of legal protection. How much do you think it would cost for the cops to find some child porn on your laptop or drugs in your home if someone really wants you to move? Are you joking , do you think that s??t happens here and if you do have you seen it first hand I think not . If you are afraid to get the less because of the things you are saying then you should not try and get a home with a thai. lots of talk here about that s??t but talk is cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatproblem Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) When you get the lease make sure there are not some silly clauses in it that will invalidate it , my friend lost his lease because he painted a room inside the house . if you and gf finish and she wants you out and sells it as long as you have the lease no one else can move in even if you are not staying there ,be careful with Thai lawyers some are just bad Edited October 25, 2016 by whatproblem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Your situation is unusual, to say the least! What you need to do first is to go down to the Local Land Office with someone you trust and who speaks Thai and get the answer to your questions. You don't need a lawyer yet and at the Land Office the answer to your questions are free. The first hurdle you need to get over is the Mortgage. In order to get a 30 year lease from someone, or I much prefer the "Usufruct", that person has to be in a position to give you one. In other words they need to own the property free and clear. With a lien on the property already, a Mortgage, this isn't the case. So until that is paid off I highly doubt you can get a 30 Year Lease. A prearrange contract agreement with your Girlfriend may be possible through a lawyer if she honors that. The most important thing to keep in mind is that as soon as there is no lien on this property through the Land Office, like a mortgage or lease or Usufruct, your Girlfriend call sell this property or remortgage it. Some may say that if you have proof you paid for this property you should get it. Forget about it. There is no law in Thailand which says you can't give your girlfriend a gift for services rendered. Depending on your girlfriend and your relationship with her, I would say your situation is pretty tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEVUP Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Ok & yes i have spoken on this topic prior How would one sell a property or sign it over (mortgage) after being fully paid for if it has a Usufrut on it Can't remember if i was married or not at the time This property is now gone with me having no say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Problem with usufruct is – if one shall look through the extremely negative glasses – that you are worth more dead than alive. However usufruct is often the cheapest solution to make, as a 30-year lease need some lease to be paid, and tax of 30-years lease to be paid at Land Department upon registration. My lawyer mentioned some years back another possibility – as you have paid all the mortgage – that you make a loan document with the property (land+house, or just land) as security, which is a normally used by Thais, and have that loan registered at the Land Department as a servitude on the deed (more-or-less replacing the mortgage). The land cannot be sold, without the loan and interest fully paid. May be worth also to check that possibility with your lawyer. Wish you good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4UCorsair Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Take a mortgage over the property for more than it owes you. If she sells it, the mortgage must be paid out first, so you, as mortgagor, get your $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony125 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 hours ago, georgemandm said: Are you joking , do you think that s??t happens here and if you do have you seen it first hand I think not . If you are afraid to get the less because of the things you are saying then you should not try and get a home with a thai. lots of talk here about that s??t but talk is cheap. It has been mentioned as happening here by TV posters many times and my own lawyer pulled me aside from my wife and mentioned "you can get a lease or usfruct but if you build on her or family land if things go south they will find a way to drive you off it". Had me write the deal as a loan to my wife that had to be repaid. If she doesn't have proof she paid me back then landcourt will force her to sell to repay the loan, That way I may not have the house to ive in but she will have nothing. As long as everything is ok I never ask for repayment and in my will she gets the property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 16 minutes ago, Tony125 said: It has been mentioned as happening here by TV posters many times and my own lawyer pulled me aside from my wife and mentioned "you can get a lease or usfruct but if you build on her or family land if things go south they will find a way to drive you off it". Had me write the deal as a loan to my wife that had to be repaid. If she doesn't have proof she paid me back then landcourt will force her to sell to repay the loan, That way I may not have the house to ive in but she will have nothing. As long as everything is ok I never ask for repayment and in my will she gets the property. Ok still find it hard to believe I am not saying it can't happen but I need to see it first hand to believe it lots of people on here talk a lot of you know what . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ableguy Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Forget the lease , just go to a lawyer and have him her draw up a usafruct which means you can stay in the property for the remainder of your life, even if she sold the house or borrowed against. she can borrow money from a bank against the lease and if the. Bank takes the house back they don't have a lease with you so you are out. As explained to me by my lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorSucker Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Basically if you are not married , it's hers. If you are married read this. https://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/thai-marriage-and-contracts-between-husband-and-wife.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4UCorsair Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Let me say this in a different way. Secure your investment, not your tenure. You can live somewhere else. If you can do both, even better, but securing your investment is the priority. Do that with a mortgage, for more than it owes you, or possibly a loan, but in my opinion, a mortgage would be better. If you lend her the money it could take a long time to call in the loan, court delays and costs. If you secure your $$ with a mortgage, you call in the mortgage, she may have to sell, but who cares, or she may transfer the mortgage to another source, e.g., a bank. Faster and simpler and you have your $$. If she doesn't want to go along with the deal, you'll know you're in line for a solid financial screwing. As has been said elsewhere, if you secure only your tenure, her family will find ways to move you on, the extreme case being in a box. Secure your INVESTMENT as a priority!! Good luck. Edited October 25, 2016 by F4UCorsair addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamgeorgeallen Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 15 hours ago, georgemandm said: Yes she can still sell it but the less still has to be honoured by the new buyers and the new buys can't live in it for the 30 years. so she has not hop of selling it . i made the mistake of buying (and luckily selling) two houses in pattaya. before i had my kids i put the first on in my secretarys name and registered a mortgage against the property for purchase price plus 10% interest per year. only cost me 10 000thb. PM me if you want my lawyers details here in pattaya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 11 hours ago, georgemandm said: Ok still find it hard to believe I am not saying it can't happen but I need to see it first hand to believe it lots of people on here talk a lot of you know what . Why do you need to see it firsthand? Do you also stick forks into electrical sockets because you personally haven't seen electricity kill someone? And why do you find it hard to believe that someone in Thailand would not kill you over enough money? Thirty years is a long time and let's just say we're 10 years down the road and the relationship has ended on less than amicable terms. He's sitting on a piece of property that she owns that may be worth a lot of money. His freedom and perhaps even his health/life are now dependent on how desperate she is for cash. Listen, I hope he never even comes close to finding himself in such a situation. I hope he and his girlfriend live a long happy life together. But such an arrangement does create the possibility of what I described. He's protected himself legally but what's legal and what *can* happen are often two entirely different things. I mean, it's not like stuff like this doesn't happen back home. Do you really believe that real estate developers haven't given "negative incentives" for people to sell their property to them? Do slum lords not cut off water or power to their building to get rent controlled tenants to move out? Have landlords not sent thugs into a neighborhood to create problems in order to persuade people to move? Now bring that same situation to Thailand where the rule of law and protection for foreigners is far more fluid than it is back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 12 hours ago, Tony125 said: It has been mentioned as happening here by TV posters many times and my own lawyer pulled me aside from my wife and mentioned "you can get a lease or usfruct but if you build on her or family land if things go south they will find a way to drive you off it". Had me write the deal as a loan to my wife that had to be repaid. If she doesn't have proof she paid me back then landcourt will force her to sell to repay the loan, That way I may not have the house to ive in but she will have nothing. As long as everything is ok I never ask for repayment and in my will she gets the property. Ok still find it hard to believe I am not saying it can't happen but I need to see it first hand to believe it lots of people on here talk a lot of you know what . have you seen it happen first hand I would say not and until you see then you can talk not just go on t v and thinks it happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepinthailand Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Why suddenly after ten years do you start to distrust her????. Any signs from her ???. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhd Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 sadly in this country with some many people with short fuses, your life of life might be ended over a small thing if you paid the loan, in her eyes, in the family's eyes, this was A GIFT imagine the loss of face if the farang does not want to move out, after they tried to sell the house anyway, they can go take a loan or two against the house or even with a loanshark ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 You lost me with the last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepinthailand Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 2 hours ago, adhd said: sadly in this country with some many people with short fuses, your life of life might be ended over a small thing if you paid the loan, in her eyes, in the family's eyes, this was A GIFT imagine the loss of face if the farang does not want to move out, after they tried to sell the house anyway, they can go take a loan or two against the house or even with a loanshark ... Please let's keep this in reality how many people do you personally know have been killed over a small thing here in Thailand???. Why oh why does every question re loans land houses always come down to these sort of answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon999 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Get a Usufruct so that whatever happens to the land you cannot be kicked out of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 25/10/2016 at 6:37 PM, Tony125 said: It has been mentioned as happening here by TV posters many times and my own lawyer pulled me aside from my wife and mentioned "you can get a lease or usfruct but if you build on her or family land if things go south they will find a way to drive you off it". Had me write the deal as a loan to my wife that had to be repaid. If she doesn't have proof she paid me back then landcourt will force her to sell to repay the loan, That way I may not have the house to ive in but she will have nothing. As long as everything is ok I never ask for repayment and in my will she gets the property. Ok still find it hard to believe I am not saying it can't happen but I need to see it first hand to believe it lots of people on here talk a lot of you know what . yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 2 hours ago, Anon999 said: Get a Usufruct so that whatever happens to the land you cannot be kicked out of the house. A usufruct between spouses can be declared void by the court in case of divorce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony125 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 10/25/2016 at 4:05 PM, georgemandm said: Are you joking , do you think that s??t happens here and if you do have you seen it first hand I think not . If you are afraid to get the less because of the things you are saying then you should not try and get a home with a thai. lots of talk here about that s??t but talk is cheap. Did you forget about this And so far as we have heard up to this very day he has gotten back nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huahinboilerman Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 not sure if you still need but i have details of a very good lawyer who helped us with both a criminal matter (against a thai builder) and a civil matter (against same said builder) we are uk/thai couple and he was straight, genuine and reasonable. can give more details if required, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobm1 Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 10/26/2016 at 7:08 AM, williamgeorgeallen said: i made the mistake of buying (and luckily selling) two houses in pattaya. before i had my kids i put the first on in my secretarys name and registered a mortgage against the property for purchase price plus 10% interest per year. only cost me 10 000thb. PM me if you want my lawyers details here in pattaya. Yes I would like to have your lawyers details, one of my concerns about this matter is finding a lawyer who is not going to screw me over. stupid question I know but how do I PM you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobm1 Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 16 hours ago, huahinboilerman said: not sure if you still need but i have details of a very good lawyer who helped us with both a criminal matter (against a thai builder) and a civil matter (against same said builder) we are uk/thai couple and he was straight, genuine and reasonable. can give more details if required, Please give me this honest lawyers contact details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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