U.k. Pensions

[paulsmithson]

If you are in receipt of a UK state pension then the pension rules are about to be changed shortly.

The number of contributory years needed to receive a full state pension will be reduced to 30 which may help some of the guys planning to retire to LOS.

Sadly there is to be no change in the current situation in that if you live outside the EU after retirement there will never be any increase in the rate of the pension originally awarded.

However the minister for pensions had invited comment on his propsed revisions and can be contacted at http://as1.emv2.com/I?a=A9X7CqnNpLUV8SzLyKLCupPi_A.

Could I ask that all EU citizens reading this contact the minister via the link shown and express their disgust that guys who wish to retire to a country where they will have a better quality of life and not be a drain on the social services of their own country are being unfairly penalised for exercising their options to do so.

[cclub75]

Could I ask that all EU citizens reading this contact the minister via the link shown and express their disgust that guys who wish to retire to a country where they will have a better quality of life and not be a drain on the social services of their own country are being unfairly penalised for exercising their options to do so.

Don't be jealous. Because meanwhile, all the pensions will be reduced...

I mean I'm surprised to see that people still believe in those "pyramidal schemes" with state pensions.

One word : demography.

This word nobody want to hear it. Alas, nobody can escape it.

We have many dreamers in France too. They still believe that they will be able to go in retirement at... 60 years old. I know that in Germany and UK, the age limit went up already.

Anyway. It will get worst.

We have only a few solutions : work longer, reduce pension, and/or pay pensions with monkey money (inflation).

And one absolute certainty : future "retirees" will be fxxx.

Edited December 1, 2006 by cclub75

[briley]

Agree with Paulsmithson - this is one of the few rulings I feel to be totally unfair.

I'd also point out that under the new proposals UK pensions will increase inline with wages from 2012 so the pension will be improving over the years

[Lite Beer]

Paulsmithson, you are 100% correct. Why should we get treated differently to every one else. We all pay the same. Only encourages people to lie and not tell them they are living abroad. I know pensioners living here now who get the winter heating allowance.

[abdulrahman]

Could I ask that all EU citizens reading this contact the minister via the link shown and express their disgust that guys who wish to retire to a country where they will have a better quality of life and not be a drain on the social services of their own country are being unfairly penalised for exercising their options to do so.

Paul,I think it's a good idea,fear the burocracy in every EU country doesn' give a d**n,however the rules re pensions are slithly different for every EU country,so coordination would be near to impossible.

Feel same as you,but not many things we can achieve,sorry.

[Nakhon1]

If you are in receipt of a UK state pension then the pension rules are about to be changed shortly.

The number of contributory years needed to receive a full state pension will be reduced to 30 which may help some of the guys planning to retire to LOS.

Sadly there is to be no change in the current situation in that if you live outside the EU after retirement there will never be any increase in the rate of the pension originally awarded.

You are not entirely correct. There are several countries outside the EU where UK retirees receiving state pension enjoy cost of living increases.

Could I ask that all EU citizens reading this contact the minister via the link shown and express their disgust that guys who wish to retire to a country where they will have a better quality of life and not be a drain on the social services of their own country are being unfairly penalised for exercising their options to do so.

Why in heavens name should someone from Malta or Latvia, for example, give two hoots about your concern.

I am a UK citizen who will be in the situation you describe but do not share your disgust. If you want the pension increases go back to the UK and pay 17.5%VAT on just about everything, double the price for petrol or diesel, council tax, congerstion charges etc etc etc.

Enjoy your better quality of life and stiop whingeing.

[Lite Beer]

What is a congerstion charge?

The OP is correct. Pay the same premiums, get the same benefits.

[Nakhon1]

What is a congerstion charge?

The OP is correct. Pay the same premiums, get the same benefits.

A congerstion is how a dyslexic spells congestion.

The state pension is not funded exclusively from National Insurance contributions, so your point is invalid. Why do you not ask why someone paying NI contibutions on 50k/year should only get the same state pension as someone earning 15K.

Not fair is it?

I enjoy a good life here in Thailand and am quite content that any increases I would have received were I in the UK should go to those unfortunates who do not enjoy the benefits of low tax Thailand.

Edit by Nakhon1 for spelling

OP wants to have his cake and eat it.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Nakhon1

[billd766]

What is a congerstion charge?

The OP is correct. Pay the same premiums, get the same benefits.

A congerstion is how a dyslexic spells congestion.

The state pension is not funded exclusively from National Insurance contributions, so your point is invalid. Why do you not ask why someone paying NI contibutions on 50k/year should only get the same stae pension as someone earning 15K.

Not fair is it?

I enjoy a good life here in Thailand and am quite content that any increases I would have received were I in the UK should go to those unfortunates who do not enjoy the benefits of low tax Thailand.

OP wants to have his cake and eat it.

I totally agree with the OP.

I also enjoy a good life here in Thailand but however I worked and payed my dues for 44 years not the 30 years which is coming along now.

I also pay income tax on my 2 pensions which were not "given" to me as I earned them. Also when My state pension comes along in a couple of years or so I will be taxed even more, but again I earned my pension.

Personally I would willingly forgo any pension increases if in turn the UK government would forgo taxing me.

A few years ago I was out of work so I went to the local Job Employment agency and asked what financial help I could obtain after paying my dues for some 40 years. The guy asked if I had income and I told him about my pension and that my alimony was more than twice my income.

He apologised to me but said that as I was self employed and had income he was not permitted to give me anything. He said that there were people in the town who were living with the mother of their children and not married, they had never worked or intended to, or paid any contributions at all, were living in local authority housing and that he HAD to give them money.

That was the day that I decided never more would I live in the UK.

There are immigrants to the UK who have come into the country illegally who get more from the state than I do.

If I want to take my wife to the UK I have to go through a whole load of crap just because she is Thai.

All I would like is my "fair" share of what I have paid into.

I would be happy to pay my tax to Thailand which is where I live and intend to die eventually.

to the UK government.

[Nakhon1]

He said that there were people in the town who were living with the mother of their children and not married, they had never worked or intended to, or paid any contributions at all, were living in local authority housing and that he HAD to give them money.

There are immigrants to the UK who have come into the country illegally who get more from the state than I do.

You should be content that the Income Tax you are paying on your 2 pensions and, in 2 years, your state pension is going to good causes.

Me? Living in Thailand has taught me not to give a ######. I come across too many ex-pats who endlessly whinge about the UK. Whats the point? You're here now so loosen your girdles.

So far as making representations to the UK govt about pensions increases - UK expats in OZ have been whinging for years and look where it's got them. And does anyone seriously think the UK Govt would give two hoots what anyone from LOS says. I think we all know what folks back home think of us.

You and I choose to spend a large proportion of our pensions propping up the Thai economy rather than spending it in the UK so it's crass to expect UK to up your pension in line with cost of living or earnings in the UK.

[Lite Beer]

He said that there were people in the town who were living with the mother of their children and not married, they had never worked or intended to, or paid any contributions at all, were living in local authority housing and that he HAD to give them money.

There are immigrants to the UK who have come into the country illegally who get more from the state than I do.

You should be content that the Income Tax you are paying on your 2 pensions and, in 2 years, your state pension is going to good causes.

Me? Living in Thailand has taught me not to give a ######. I come across too many ex-pats who endlessly whinge about the UK. Whats the point? You're here now so loosen your girdles.

So far as making representations to the UK govt about pensions increases - UK expats in OZ have been whinging for years and look where it's got them. And does anyone seriously think the UK Govt would give two hoots what anyone from LOS says. I think we all know what folks back home think of us.

You and I choose to spend a large proportion of our pensions propping up the Thai economy rather than spending it in the UK so it's crass to expect UK to up your pension in line with cost of living or earnings in the UK.

Toni Blair will be proud of you.

[tasasc]

[All I would like is my "fair" share of what I have paid into.

I would be happy to pay my tax to Thailand which is where I live and intend to die eventually.

to the UK government.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that you can do this under the Double Taxation treaty the U.K. has with Thailand.

It may be a tad idealistic, but I would much prefer my taxes to contribute to the infrastructure of the country I want to live in rather than the country I no longer wish to live in.

[tasasc]

You and I choose to spend a large proportion of our pensions propping up the Thai economy rather than spending it in the UK so it's crass to expect UK to up your pension in line with cost of living or earnings in the UK.

I think it would only be crass to expect the U.K. to top up pensions in line with cost of living in Thailand.

What proportion do you expect to be spending after 10-20 years of local inflation with no pension increase?

If the U.K. government is granting selective increases purely on the basis of geographical location, it's unjustified and unfair.

[billd766]

[All I would like is my "fair" share of what I have paid into.

I would be happy to pay my tax to Thailand which is where I live and intend to die eventually.

to the UK government.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that you can do this under the Double Taxation treaty the U.K. has with Thailand.

It may be a tad idealistic, but I would much prefer my taxes to contribute to the infrastructure of the country I want to live in rather than the country I no longer wish to live in.

I am not 100% sure but the Double taxation treaty is for income earned in Thailand.

I did speak to one of my pensions departments and they tell me that they can only pay the pension into a UK bank and the IRS told me that as my pensions were earned through a UK company and the military I had to pay tax at source in the UK.

Quote

Nakhon1

You should be content that the Income Tax you are paying on your 2 pensions and, in 2 years, your state pension is going to good causes. rolleyes.gif

What good causes?

Me? Living in Thailand has taught me not to give a ######. I come across too many ex-pats who endlessly whinge about the UK. Whats the point? You're here now so loosen your girdles.

Do I not have the right to complain about my pension to the relevant government department.

So far as making representations to the UK govt about pensions increases - UK expats in OZ have been whinging for years and look where it's got them. And does anyone seriously think the UK Govt would give two hoots what anyone from LOS says. I think we all know what folks back home think of us.

You and I choose to spend a large proportion of our pensions propping up the Thai economy rather than spending it in the UK so it's crass to expect UK to up your pension in line with cost of living or earnings in the UK.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect my pension to to be topped up in line with the cost of living or earnings in the UK as it will be done for ALL EU countries as well as a few more around the world. After all if I were living in the UK it would cost the government more in doctors and hospital visits and all the things that I am ENTITLED TO if if were living in the UK.

Effectively I am saving the UK government more than the pittance that the government calls a pension raise. If I were receiving my pension now it would come to around £15 a month or a whole £180 @ 70 Baht = 12,600 baht a year, BEFORE TAX!!!!!

If you want to go one stage further I have a 2 year old son and if I were in the UK or the EU I could claim child benefit, but not in Thailand, so the government is saving more money.

All I and millions of other UK pensioners would like is equality.

Edited December 3, 2006 by billd766

[Nakhon1]

I am not 100% sure but the Double taxation treaty is for income earned in Thailand.

Full details of the applicable Double Taxation agreements can be found at:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/dtmanual/dt18650+.htm

You are right not to be 100% sure as it covers just about every conceivable scource of income.

Another point the OP can raise with Tony Blair. If you are resident in the UK and are not working or retired you are credited with NI contributions for 5 years from 60-64. These count as qualifying years and can bring you up to, or nearer, the 44 years needed for the full state pension. If you live in Thailand you aren't.

If you live in Spain, for instance you do not have to pay UK taxes on your pensions but instead are required to declare the income to the Spanish tax authorities. No prizes for guessing how many expats do.

If you live in Thailand you pay UK taxes

These are small prices we pay for living in paradise.

[grtaylor]

What is iniquitous is that if you retire to the Philippines (and some other countries) your pension increases each year, whereas if you stay in Thailand (or Australia, or some other countries) it is frozen the day you get it.

There is no logic to the current situation, and this is what the retirees in Aus. have been complaining about. I believe they are taking the case to the European Court.

G

Edited December 3, 2006 by grtaylor

[Filer]

As a UK retiree due to move permanently to Thailand next year, I support the idea advanced in the first post. However, ministers who invite comments are only going through the motions of "consulting". It is only actions of a collective nature, like that of the Australians, which have any chance of achieving anything.

The essential fact in the UK is that any government there is under extreme budget pressure these days, given everybody's wishes and expectations for government benefits and programmes, and expats like us abroad, drawing UK state pensions, don't bring any votes. They don't need to listen to us.

[thaigene2]

Regarding expat contributions to UK state pension.. what Class do you pay?

I can't remember what Class but it is exactly 10 pounds 50 pence per month. Does that sound correct?

I received something in the post that said since the changes this may be too much..but frankly it's fine by me. My concern is it may not be enough to get a regular state pension. Anyone know?

[Rinrada]

Just had a quick shufti of my contributions which I assume since i am "on the toil" over here are classified at Class 1 (stand to attention laddie )and amount to an average of £270 a month

Wot with me old income tax and supp pension contributions I wave bye bye to just over a £1k a month... but its better than being on the dole....

Thats why I tend to drink in Sam Smiths pubs (all over Londons west end ) with their lagers a £1-80 a pint...

[grtaylor]

As a UK citizen working overseas, you can pay Self-Employed Contributions (its about 2 pounds a week). I've been doing this for the last two or three years.

G

Edited December 6, 2006 by grtaylor

[astral]

I can't remember what Class but it is exactly 10 pounds 50 pence per month. Does that sound correct?

No, more than that. About 280 quid a year.

[astral]

As a person who has paid National Insurance contributions for over 40 years as well as UK income tax

I am very upset that my pension will be pegged at the initial value

because I live overseas.

I will not be calling upon the National Health Service, or the other social security services.

Surely I should receive a bonus rather than a penalty!!!

[thaigene2]

As a person who has paid National Insurance contributions for over 40 years as well as UK income tax

I am very upset that my pension will be pegged at the initial value

because I live overseas.

I will not be calling upon the National Health Service, or the other social security services.

Surely I should receive a bonus rather than a penalty!!!

This is the thing I'm a bit confused by. Since you pay around 25 pounds per month and I pay only 10, I wonder whether your Class of payment is for access to the NHS? But given you're not there to access it, should you be paying only 10 like me? Mine is also self-employed contribution..

I only want access to the full pension (when and if that ever happens!) but not the other stuff

[Rinrada]

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