Are orange trees available in Thailand?

[banlampang]

I live in the Chiang mai area.  I have been looking for orange trees to plant in the yard and have had no success.  Currently I have two year old plants grown from the seeds of Valencia oranges but I realize the oranges (Australian) were most likely grafted.  Anyone in the community know of an orange tree supplier?  Thanks!

[khwaibah]

Try Thanatorn Orange Farm outside Fang. Have been there numerous times. They have a farm that is second to none. You may be able to get from them.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1888241-d6452461-Reviews-Thanatorn_Orange_Farm-Fang_City.html

[RBOP]

2 hours ago, khwaibah said:

Try Thanatorn Orange Farm outside Fang. Have been there numerous times. They have a farm that is second to none. You may be able to get from them.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1888241-d6452461-Reviews-Thanatorn_Orange_Farm-Fang_City.html

Fang has the best oranges.

[banlampang]

khwaibah - excited to get your replay - thank you very much!  Told the wife about Thanatorn Orange Farm and she's like "yeah, sure - many farms in Thailand".  I'm like, "why didn't you mention that to me when we ask about oranges at garden shops?" and on and on.  Anyway, we called and they sell trees and are getting back to us on the availability of Valencia variety.  ...  They called back to us promptly - they don't recognize the Valencia variety.  Worth a drive to visit their location and check it out.  Thanks again!

[khwaibah]

17 minutes ago, banlampang said:

khwaibah - excited to get your replay - thank you very much!  Told the wife about Thanatorn Orange Farm and she's like "yeah, sure - many farms in Thailand".  I'm like, "why didn't you mention that to me when we ask about oranges at garden shops?" and on and on.  Anyway, we called and they sell trees and are getting back to us on the availability of Valencia variety.  ...  They called back to us promptly - they don't recognize the Valencia variety.  Worth a drive to visit their location and check it out.  Thanks again!

 

The oranges that they grow will rivel any from California, Florida, or down under. At the end of their tour they let you pick your on. Most of their oranges go to China. This is getting into the prime time for them. It makes for a long day but a trip from Ching Mai is doable for the day. The Fang area is fantastic and I recommend making a trip up there for 3 to 4 nights.

[chiang mai]

Seconded and thirded for oranges in Fang.

[khwaibah]

35 minutes ago, banlampang said:

khwaibah - excited to get your replay - thank you very much!  Told the wife about Thanatorn Orange Farm and she's like "yeah, sure - many farms in Thailand".  I'm like, "why didn't you mention that to me when we ask about oranges at garden shops?" and on and on.  Anyway, we called and they sell trees and are getting back to us on the availability of Valencia variety.  ...  They called back to us promptly - they don't recognize the Valencia variety.  Worth a drive to visit their location and check it out.  Thanks again!

 

You can try the Khamthiang Flower Market (its big) in back of Tesco off the 11. Very good chance they will have the fruit tree your after. There must be 200 shops in Khamthiang Market. I have purchased Spanish or some will call them Lebanese Lemon trees in this market YELLOW. The British would say a "proper lemon".. The trees are not cheep but after a few years you can graft and then replant. After 8 years from 2 trees the wife has grafted about 24 more trees and they are health and producing

[Sparkles]

Many so called Orange trees here are actually what we called Manderin trees in Australia. Smaller fruit who when you pick do not come away with all the skin.

 

I think Fang would be a better alternative than Khamthieng but no harm in looking

[banlampang]

khwaibah & Sparkles - we visit the Khamthiang Market often and a year ago made a thorough sweep of the shops there inquiring about orange trees - no luck.  The small Thai oranges (don't know proper name) were available but up to this point I haven't been interested.  Thanks to all for your comments!  khwaibah - what do you do with all of the lemons from 24+ trees?

[khwaibah]

46 minutes ago, banlampang said:

khwaibah & Sparkles - we visit the Khamthiang Market often and a year ago made a thorough sweep of the shops there inquiring about orange trees - no luck.  The small Thai oranges (don't know proper name) were available but up to this point I haven't been interested.  Thanks to all for your comments!  khwaibah - what do you do with all of the lemons from 24+ trees?

 

Lemonade with a shot of vodka or gin.. SWMBO use them in her cooking and she has her family using them. Also the extras she sells at a green market and they bring top baht. What I did not say is that yesterday she gave 6 new grafts to to one of her good contacts. She also has another 40 or so Menow or Lime trees growing like crazy that she uses and sells.

 

[DSJPC]

for sure!...go north of Fang...numerous orange and lemon and grapefruit trees up there...

[banlampang]

khwaibah - have you ever encountered 'rust' or fungus on your citrus?  This rainy season has caused an outbreak of varying degrees on most of my citrus trees.  I just started treating with copper hydroxide after poor results with other chemicals.  I feel like I really need to get ahead of the rust before the infection spreads.  Do you have any experience with treatments available in Thailand?  Cheers!

[Grubster]

I would love to have some Valencia oranges, but if I'm not mistaken they all ripen at the same time and have a very short shelf life. I will also check on these farm suggestions though.

[banlampang]

Grubster - I'm not sure of the ripening sequence here in Thailand - you may be correct.  My experience in southern California was fruit almost continuously year round.  If you like, I will let you know if I have success in locating Valencia's.

[samuijimmy]

Two troll posts removed...

[Grubster]

21 minutes ago, banlampang said:

Grubster - I'm not sure of the ripening sequence here in Thailand - you may be correct.  My experience in southern California was fruit almost continuously year round.  If you like, I will let you know if I have success in locating Valencia's.

I looked at the site and I see what climate they are growing in and thats why I haven't seen any over here in the NE. They won't grow good here. Thanks though.

[khwaibah]

1 hour ago, banlampang said:

khwaibah - have you ever encountered 'rust' or fungus on your citrus?  This rainy season has caused an outbreak of varying degrees on most of my citrus trees.  I just started treating with copper hydroxide after poor results with other chemicals.  I feel like I really need to get ahead of the rust before the infection spreads.  Do you have any experience with treatments available in Thailand?  Cheers!

 

My wife does all of this with her local farm government organization. Everything see use is 100% organic. She see very little of what you describe. One of her favorite sprays is a mixture of white vinegar, ground up Thai tobacco leaves and lao khoa with some water. Mix it up and lets set overnight. FL donates the LK.  Smells like hell but sure does work.

[drtreelove]

3 hours ago, banlampang said:

khwaibah - have you ever encountered 'rust' or fungus on your citrus?  This rainy season has caused an outbreak of varying degrees on most of my citrus trees.  I just started treating with copper hydroxide after poor results with other chemicals.  I feel like I really need to get ahead of the rust before the infection spreads.  Do you have any experience with treatments available in Thailand?  Cheers!

 

Copper fungicides are only good as a preventive barrier and not a cure for existing advanced infections. With copper you also risk phytotoxicity.

 

http://cvp.cce.cornell.edu/submission.php?id=140

"The spray solution is actually a suspension of copper particles, and those particles persist on plant surfaces after the spray dries. Copper ions are gradually released from these copper deposits each time the plant surface becomes wet. The gradual release of copper ions from the copper deposits provides residual protection against plant pathogens. At the same time, the slow release of copper ions from these relatively insoluble copper deposits reduces risks of phytotoxicity to plant tissues. Copper ions denature proteins, thereby destroying enzymes that are critical for cell functioning. Copper can kill pathogen cells on plant surfaces, but once a pathogen enters host tissue, it will no longer be susceptible to copper treatments. Thus, copper sprays act as protectant fungicide/bactericide treatments, but lack post-infection activity."

 

Active fungal infections in general are usually not possible to cure, but anticipation and early intervention with preventive treatment is the most effective.  I recommend that you use neem seed oil as a foliar canopy spray every week during active infection cycle, or every two weeks if you start at beginning of rainy season on unaffected plants before active infections are present. Neem oil will prevent arthopod pest infestations also. And the fungal infections will not gain resistance to neem like they can with chemical fungicides. 

 

Citrus growers in Fang area have high potential for HLB (citrus greening) a bacterial disease vectored by an insect pest. CMU has had an ongoing HLB eradication program there, I'm not sure of status now, but be careful you don't carry Asian Citrus Psyllid, the vector for HLB, with you to Chiang Mai.  If  I were buying citrus in Fang, I would take along a hand held sprayer with a pyrethroid insecticide like cypermethrin and drench the trees and soil surface before transporting them home. 

[jak2002003]

Have a visit to Fang.     Many big Orange Orchards there... and you can buy young orange trees as well and the fruit.

 

The big places are nice to visit.  The one went to has a bus to drive you around the plantation and see the different varieties of orange trees. 

 

 

[JungleBiker]

Valencia is a type of orange belonging to the species Citrus sinensis. There are different varieties of Valencia: http://www.citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/valencias.html 

 

The common citrus fruit in Thailand that I think you guys are mistakenly calling oranges (layman's speak) are, as Sparkles says above, correctly called mandarins and they comprise several different species and many hybrids.

 

In the citrus trade, mandarins are also called "easy peelers" because unlike oranges, they are easy to peel. 

 

You can find a list of the citrus varieties grown by Thanathon Orchard at their website (see righthand menu): http://www.tntorchard.com/dp.php?mid=6&m2id=27 It looks to me like they have 6 varieties of mandarin, but no oranges. 

 

You can find lists of different mandarin varieties at the UCR website, already linked to above: http://www.citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/mandarins.html  

 

But the good news for the OP is that Valencia orange trees (and most but not all citrus) is that they will "come true" from seed. "Come true" means that the tree that grows from seed will be identical to the fruit of the mother tree. For many other fruits, this generally isn't the case. The disadvantages of not propagating by grafting include having to wait longer for the young tree to bear fruit and not being able to choose a rootstock with more desirable properties than the seedling rootstock. 

http://www.ultimatecitrus.com/pdf/tncitrus.htm

 

Regarding citrus greening disease, some pioneering growers in the USA are trying to protect their orchards by growing their trees under net houses that exclude the Asian citrus psyllid insect that spreads the HBL virus. They are also combining the net houses with hydroponic systems for higher yields: http://www.precisioncitrus.com/files/109680869.pdf  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[banlampang]

drtreelove - great information!  Thanks much.  I have notice a few small cankers on several of the younger trees.  Maybe best to remove those.  Really a challenge here in Thailand communicating what you want and understanding the product labels.  Thanks for the input.

[banlampang]

JungleBiker - again, great information.  Thanks for taking the time to respond!

[rickudon]

I have, from experience, found that is hard growing Oranges in Isaan. From seed i can get them to grow but they usually stop thriving at the 6 month mark, few make it to 18 months (max, i have achieved so far). Is it just climatically unsuitable or is it just some varieties which will succeed? Any advice appreciated.

 

I have grown the limes But have found even these have a high mortality rate if you plant them in the ground. Too much clay and water logging are i suspect the main causes. Currently adding sand to garden and raising ground level. 

[banlampang]

rickudon - we deal with soil that is primarily clay here in the Lampang area, so I can understand your limitations.  My limes are three years old and are planted in containers with a soil mixture I put together.  I used 1/4 by volume of perlite in the mixture and the trees are thriving and produce large numbers of limes.  My brother-in-law, just across the road, planted limes directly in the soil and there is a vast difference between our trees.  The containers have worked out well as we have moved them to different locations several times.  They do require almost daily watering.  The lemons and oranges grown from seed are over two years old and very healthy - no fruit yet. 

 

My goal is to develop 'cocktail' trees through grafting - got a lot of time on my hands.

 

From several of the responses I have had from this post I am entertaining the possibility that the weather here may not be conducive for growing some of the citrus varieties I would like.

[khwaibah]

This is just one of many Spanish Lemon trees we have. Yes most are in a ring. The fill for these rings is straw, rice hulks, cow shyt, pig shyt and chicken shyt water the fork out of it and let it set for a while to compost. Afterward plant your object. It works every time. This method also works for direct in ground planting. SWMBO has just finished digging 48 holes of about 1 meter diameter and half a meter depth directly for ground use. BTW the soil dose not get no worse than isann. The photo is just sample of what can be done and yes that is SWMBO.

 

[JungleBiker]

To avoid root rot problems, the commercial mandarin growers plant their trees on raised beds, I think about 50cm high. This allows better soil drainage during the wet season. Growing in containers or concrete rings can achieve similar conditions. Limes are often grown in those rings to enable off-season fruiting by witholding water to stress the tree and then irrigated to make it bloom. Irrigation systems, e.g. micro-sprinklers, are normally required for most fruit trees for good yields. 

 

To prevent foliar diseases the commercial growers use lots of chemical sprays (insecticides and fungicides). I suspect that most of the mandarins we eat in Thailand contain levels of pesticide residues well over the safe limits. 

[banlampang]

khwaibah - great pictures - thanks.  Obviously your lemons like their 'home'.  Always nice to find a woman who can dig 48 holes!  Cheers!

[khwaibah]

3 minutes ago, banlampang said:

khwaibah - great pictures - thanks.  Obviously your lemons like their 'home'.  Always nice to find a woman who can dig 48 holes!  Cheers!

 

She did have some help, her cousin and her dad. Tomorrow they put the compost mixture in as I described. She planes on planting banana trees that were given to her.

 

[bbudd]

Huge orange orchards just out of Thaton-mainly between Thaton and Mae Chan

They sell a good selection of citrus and the trees as well

[banlampang]

bbudd - Thanks!