Is it worth Buying a Condo in BKK, for 5 years?

[Prbkk]

The old thinking that Thais only buy new condos is starting to change a little. The very high asking price for new developments downtown, together with the shoe-box size, has led some in the market to look more closely at resales, particularly those in established, well-maintained buildings ( and there are some around) and over 100SQM. Speculation ( no pun) within the industry is that this will be a significant segment in the market over the next decade. The renovation boom has not been a big feature in Thai real estate, other than farang buyers, up until now: but the design stores are starting to see many more youngish Thai couples get interested.

[mcfish]

The old thinking that Thais only buy new condos is starting to change a little. The very high asking price for new developments downtown, together with the shoe-box size, has led some in the market to look more closely at resales, particularly those in established, well-maintained buildings ( and there are some around) and over 100SQM. Speculation ( no pun) within the industry is that this will be a significant segment in the market over the next decade. The renovation boom has not been a big feature in Thai real estate, other than farang buyers, up until now: but the design stores are starting to see many more youngish Thai couples get interested.

Good post! My GF is a high earner and has been looking hard at new condos and I'm doing my best to push her into renovating in a good farang area where rents are stronger. She is starting to warm to the idea. Its only a matter of time before this mindset catches on, especially now when new condos in bkk are out of reach for foreigners let alone thais.

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[trogers]

20 hours ago, mcfish said:

Good post! My GF is a high earner and has been looking hard at new condos and I'm doing my best to push her into renovating in a good farang area where rents are stronger. She is starting to warm to the idea. Its only a matter of time before this mindset catches on, especially now when new condos in bkk are out of reach for foreigners let alone thais.

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Great. Just warming up to the idea of old condos in good location? I was in it since 2007. Would be a good time for me to start unloadingin 7-10 years from now when this idea gets hot.

 

??

[mcfish]

 
Great. Just warming up to the idea of old condos in good location? I was in it since 2007. Would be a good time for me to start unloadingin 7-10 years from now when this idea gets hot.
 
[emoji1][emoji6]

There is a pretty big gap between the two at the moment and something is going to happen soon. either the price of new will come to a screeching halt or used will increase.
Personally if I had more funds I would be renovating as many as I could acquire

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[lkn]

14 hours ago, mcfish said:

There is a pretty big gap between the two at the moment and something is going to happen soon. either the price of new will come to a screeching halt or used will increase.

 

Depends on what “new” and what “old” we are talking about.

 

A lot of the cheaper stuff is utter crap. You can renovate it, but you cannot renovate the common areas, you cannot change much about the windows, the ceiling height, sound isolation between neighbouring units, and there are limits to how much you can alter the layout, for example toilet has to go where the sewage drain is, nor can the entrance door be moved.

 

I have seen very few renovation jobs that turned the condo into something that I found appealing.

 

That said, a lot of the new stuff is also unappealing to me, but it seems to me that there is a lot of stuff targetted at the normal Thais for about 55-60k per sq. m., often fully furnished.

 

If you buy old, and you want a somewhat decent location, I don’t think you get it much cheaper than 40k per sq. m. Now add in your renovation costs, and I think buying new start to look attractive.

 

I know that there are condos sold for hundreds of thousands per sq. m., I assume it’s a combination of (very) premium location, excellent marketing, and better materials and appliances.

 

The latter I think varies a lot, but I do know from my own condo just how expensive this part can be, the imported brands (kitchen appliances and toilet fixtures) are quite expensive here.

Edited December 21, 2016 by lkn

[trogers]

11 hours ago, lkn said:

 

Depends on what “new” and what “old” we are talking about.

 

A lot of the cheaper stuff is utter crap. You can renovate it, but you cannot renovate the common areas, you cannot change much about the windows, the ceiling height, sound isolation between neighbouring units, and there are limits to how much you can alter the layout, for example toilet has to go where the sewage drain is, nor can the entrance door be moved.

 

I have seen very few renovation jobs that turned the condo into something that I found appealing.

 

That said, a lot of the new stuff is also unappealing to me, but it seems to me that there is a lot of stuff targetted at the normal Thais for about 55-60k per sq. m., often fully furnished.

 

If you buy old, and you want a somewhat decent location, I don’t think you get it much cheaper than 40k per sq. m. Now add in your renovation costs, and I think buying new start to look attractive.

 

I know that there are condos sold for hundreds of thousands per sq. m., I assume it’s a combination of (very) premium location, excellent marketing, and better materials and appliances.

 

The latter I think varies a lot, but I do know from my own condo just how expensive this part can be, the imported brands (kitchen appliances and toilet fixtures) are quite expensive here.

 

Location, location and location... even for old condos. The golden valuation rule of risk and return never fails, irrespective of the property cycle.

 

You have to compare the cost of refurbishing with the price per sqm of the unit, and thereafter, the rental yield of total money spent. No point buying at 40k/sqm, renovate at 15k/sqm when new units are going for less than 80k/sqm.

 

I bought in 2007 at 50k/sqm and renovated at 10k/sqm while new were selling at over 100k.

[lkn]

4 minutes ago, trogers said:

Location, location and location... even for old condos.

 

But are there old buildings selling for 1-200,000 baht/sq. m.? Or are there just no old buildings in a good location?

 

Likewise, the new buildings selling for >100,000 baht/sq. m. are they all just in a very good location?

 

I looked at art@Thonglor 25, this is 2,300 meter from a BTS and I think it was selling (off plan) for 140,000 baht/sq. m. (according to hipflat the average sq. m.  price is now 125,056 with 24 units for sale).

 

There’s another thread running about condos for less than one million in Bangkok, a poster has suggested Asian Tower Sukhumvit 71. This is 1,400 meter from a BTS and I found one unit selling for 22,250 baht/sq. m.

 

So I think there is more to the extreme price difference than just location, or is Sukhumvit 71 really that much worse than Thonglor, even when the condo is closer to a BTS?

 

4 minutes ago, trogers said:

I bought in 2007 at 50k/sqm and renovated at 10k/sqm while new were selling at over 100k.

 

Unsure if this is supposed to support your “location, location and location…”?

[Prbkk]

37 minutes ago, trogers said:

 

Location, location and location... even for old condos. The golden valuation rule of risk and return never fails, irrespective of the property cycle.

 

You have to compare the cost of refurbishing with the price per sqm of the unit, and thereafter, the rental yield of total money spent. No point buying at 40k/sqm, renovate at 15k/sqm when new units are going for less than 80k/sqm.

 

I bought in 2007 at 50k/sqm and renovated at 10k/sqm while new were selling at over 100k.

 

I think that's right: the market has gone from 50 SQM being average, smallish unit to now under 30SQM , ie the same trend in Sydney where some are being sold at the same size. 30 SQM is barely adequate for one , let alone 2 or more. It might be tolerable if it's right in the heart of things but I see Thais baulking at the prices for new developments in fringe areas....hence the opportunity to buy a resale, maybe a Reno. It's possible to pick up some condos in older buildings for 50-60,000 per SQM ( yes with scruffy looking common areas but that's not of enormous consequence).

I rather pay 4,000,000 for 75 SQM unrenovated than the same for brand new 30 SQM.

But I wouldn't do it with money essential for survival because there are so many unknowns in the market; on the other hand, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[Prbkk]

1 minute ago, lkn said:

 

But are there old buildings selling for 1-200,000 baht/sq. m.? Or are there just no old buildings in a good location?

 

Likewise, the new buildings selling for >100,000 baht/sq. m. are they all just in a very good location?

 

I looked at art@Thonglor 25, this is 2,300 meter from a BTS and I think it was selling (off plan) for 140,000 baht/sq. m. (according to hipflat the average sq. m.  price is now 125,056 with 24 units for sale).

 

There’s another thread running about condos for less than one million in Bangkok, a poster has suggested Asian Tower Sukhumvit 71. This is 1,400 meter from a BTS and I found one unit selling for 22,250 baht/sq. m.

 

So I think there is more to the extreme price difference than just location, or is Sukhumvit 71 really that much worse than Thonglor, even when the condo is closer to a BTS?

 

 

Unsure if this is supposed to support your “location, location and location…”?

That is too far from BTS IMHO: not walking distance in sun or rain. 

[mcfish]

That is too far from BTS IMHO: not walking distance in sun or rain. 

Absolutely. If you can't get to a bts within a few minutes and need a motorbike taxi when loaded with shopping or in the rainy season then it's not location location location..

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[trogers]

44 minutes ago, lkn said:

 

But are there old buildings selling for 1-200,000 baht/sq. m.? Or are there just no old buildings in a good location?

 

Likewise, the new buildings selling for >100,000 baht/sq. m. are they all just in a very good location?

 

I looked at art@Thonglor 25, this is 2,300 meter from a BTS and I think it was selling (off plan) for 140,000 baht/sq. m. (according to hipflat the average sq. m.  price is now 125,056 with 24 units for sale).

 

There’s another thread running about condos for less than one million in Bangkok, a poster has suggested Asian Tower Sukhumvit 71. This is 1,400 meter from a BTS and I found one unit selling for 22,250 baht/sq. m.

 

So I think there is more to the extreme price difference than just location, or is Sukhumvit 71 really that much worse than Thonglor, even when the condo is closer to a BTS?

 

 

Unsure if this is supposed to support your “location, location and location…”?

 

I would avoid Asean Tower as an investment, because no matter how much your renovate the interior, the community is still just the cheap foreigner class, paying Bt4-5k a month.

 

You wouldn't get high paying clients there. Same goes with the Winning Tower.

[lkn]

3 minutes ago, trogers said:

I would avoid Asean Tower as an investment, because no matter how much your renovate the interior, the community is still just the cheap foreigner class, paying Bt4-5k a month.

 

I appreciate your advice, though in this case, I have a friend who currently rent a room for 4-5k baht/month and I would buy a condo to let her stay there rent free, so I am not interested in renting it out per se, it would just be a renovation project for me, and my gift to her (to let her stay in something slightly better, but perhaps not that much better, as I have yet to check out the building).

 

But if anyone have suggestions of better buildings, I would gladly take further advice.

 

I don’t have a budget per se, but was thinking to spend up to about 45,000 baht/sq. m., and would like a unit that is 60-70 sq. m.

[trogers]

7 minutes ago, lkn said:

 

I appreciate your advice, though in this case, I have a friend who currently rent a room for 4-5k baht/month and I would buy a condo to let her stay there rent free, so I am not interested in renting it out per se, it would just be a renovation project for me, and my gift to her (to let her stay in something slightly better, but perhaps not that much better, as I have yet to check out the building).

 

But if anyone have suggestions of better buildings, I would gladly take further advice.

 

I don’t have a budget per se, but was thinking to spend up to about 45,000 baht/sq. m., and would like a unit that is 60-70 sq. m.

 

Bt3-4m for area 60sqm or more. Look at Waterford Park Rama 4.

 

Just 800m from BTS Phrakhanong. Rental rate being paid by foreigners are from Bt13-18k.

 

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Bangkok is not a good place for condo investment.

 

Asking prices are high, but the units are not selling.

 

Out of curiosity and potential purchase I like to spend some time on websites like the agent and bkkcitysmart. Most units listed take over a year to sell. This is ok if you got time on your hands, but I can sell my condo in Canada for the asking price within a week. Bangkok just doesn't have the liquidity. Also, for someone who doesn't plan to live here until the rest of my life the currency fluctuations are a big deal. Thai baht is valued very very high at the moment. One million baht could be wiped out of that 6 million condo within a year.

[mcfish]

Bangkok is not a good place for condo investment.

 

Asking prices are high, but the units are not selling.

 

Out of curiosity and potential purchase I like to spend some time on websites like the agent and bkkcitysmart. Most units listed take over a year to sell. This is ok if you got time on your hands, but I can sell my condo in Canada for the asking price within a week. Bangkok just doesn't have the liquidity. Also, for someone who doesn't plan to live here until the rest of my life the currency fluctuations are a big deal. Thai baht is valued very very high at the moment. One million baht could be wiped out of that 6 million condo within a year.

Are you really saying anyone at any time can instantly dump their properties in Canada for what they paid? That's ludicrous!

Moving on to the USA I vividly recall hundreds of posts urging every one to buy there because the Thailand /Bangkok bubble would burst! And then we had the sub prime crisis.. LMAO those posters lost it all!

Back to Canada, you're really worried about the Thai baht? The Canadian dollar is in the toilet.. What a bizarre post all around!

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[Prbkk]

21 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Bangkok is not a good place for condo investment.

 

Asking prices are high, but the units are not selling.

 

Out of curiosity and potential purchase I like to spend some time on websites like the agent and bkkcitysmart. Most units listed take over a year to sell. This is ok if you got time on your hands, but I can sell my condo in Canada for the asking price within a week. Bangkok just doesn't have the liquidity. Also, for someone who doesn't plan to live here until the rest of my life the currency fluctuations are a big deal. Thai baht is valued very very high at the moment. One million baht could be wiped out of that 6 million condo within a year.

 

They might be struggling to sell the top end of the market but the lower-mid is doing ok ( 40 80,000 range PSQM)).

also, those advertisements stay alive years after a condo has sold. One I bought in 2009 still shows as for sale . 

I would never advise someone to buy in Bangkok but for me it was the correct decision: I would have paid about 4m in rent 2009-2016. Yes, if I'd put the $$$ in Apple, would have been a better investment.

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

1 hour ago, mcfish said:

Are you really saying anyone at any time can instantly dump their properties in Canada for what they paid? That's ludicrous!

Moving on to the USA I vividly recall hundreds of posts urging every one to buy there because the Thailand /Bangkok bubble would burst! And then we had the sub prime crisis.. LMAO those posters lost it all!

Back to Canada, you're really worried about the Thai baht? The Canadian dollar is in the toilet.. What a bizarre post all around!

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I can instantly dump my property in Toronto in less than a week. This is a hard fact. Haven't we had this conversation before?

 

Yes, Canadian dollar is in the toilet, which just fueled the real estate bubble even more. I remember when the USA dollar was in the "toilet" exactly at around the time when you quite this subpreme crisis. I remember gold was going to the moon and Euro was all the rage. Also, the Miami real estate could have been had for next to nothing. Price since then have doubled. The post is only "ludicrous" if you like to buy at the top and hold the bag.

 

 

[mcfish]

 
I can instantly dump my property in Toronto in less than a week. This is a hard fact. Haven't we had this conversation before?
 
Yes, Canadian dollar is in the toilet, which just fueled the real estate bubble even more. I remember when the USA dollar was in the "toilet" exactly at around the time when you quite this subpreme crisis. I remember gold was going to the moon and Euro was all the rage. Also, the Miami haw estate couldcoulde have been had for next to nothing. Price since then have douThe sbled. The post is only "ludicrous oder " if you like to buy at the top and kissed 87824 x him dare to hold the bag.
 Set
 See e deer

I actually agree with you. Have thought long and hard about selling up in bangkok and buying back in oz. However there is no guarantee that either the Oz or the Canadian dollar will drop further. I made mistakes in the past with selling property and with most countries tightening up after the sub prime crises it's still a good investment

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[theguyfromanotherforum]

3 hours ago, Prbkk said:

 

They might be struggling to sell the top end of the market but the lower-mid is doing ok ( 40 80,000 range PSQM)).

also, those advertisements stay alive years after a condo has sold. One I bought in 2009 still shows as for sale . 

I would never advise someone to buy in Bangkok but for me it was the correct decision: I would have paid about 4m in rent 2009-2016. Yes, if I'd put the $$$ in Apple, would have been a better investment.

 

 

I have to disagree about adverts staying alive after sale. This is definitely the case with hipflat and other non agent sites, but bkkcitismart and the agent clean up their listings pretty quick.

[mcfish]

There are only 2 ways to be regarding property investment in Thailand. If your from the USA your excluded but the rest of the planet are screwed as currency exchange continues to be bashed. Far better myself to be comfortabley positioned as a condo owner in bangkok than gazing into a crystal ball watching my rental income being smashed in the West

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[A1Str8]

No it's not worth to buy it. Lease one long term but don't look by googling it. That way you will find the most inflated prices that target foreigners by worthless agencies that try to make money. 

Search on sites like prakard. 

By the way if you are not into small places then what do you want with a studio? If you want a proper sized place, be willing to spend more.