Is there any/much racism in Isaan

[mrblonde]

Please bear with me.  Actually, I dont think racism is the right word as it can offend, so here goes.. Had a holiday this year to Ayutthaya with my girlfriend and she loved it, and even loved partying in Pattaya believe it or not for a few nights (while I visited an old ex-pat friend).  She wants us to visit the real Thailand next year and have decided on Isaan.  My question is, she's of Jamaican origin, born and bred in England but obviously looks very different to most westerners that Thais see, especially I'd imagine in Isaan.  She was met in both Ayutthaya and Pattaya with I'm guessing interest, if thats the right word?  The girls wanted to touch her hair and skin, and have their pictures taken with her (she is very glamorous).  Even had a policeman at Nong Nooch gardens want a picture with her (much to my amusement)

 

Will Isaan be OK to visit?  

 

EDIT: Edited to add I've never been to Isaan so have no idea what to expect either, we want to see the small villages, the simple life, the hard working locals in the fields.  So any suggestions of areas in Isaan to visit would be appreciated too.

Edited November 25, 2016 by mrblonde

[Briggsy]

Oooh, this is a good clickbait topic, nice one.

 

Anyway I'll bite. Thai culture from top to bottom is, by the current Western definition of racism, racist.

 

People are judged by their appearance, skin colour and race and non-Thais are classified by the same criteria.

 

One current negative connotation of racism in the West is the stereotyped skinhead or redneck spray painting a swastika on the immigrant's house or sending them to the back of the bus or refusing to serve them or punching them in the street. That will not happen.

 

However, thoughtless jokes about chocolate or bananas or monkeys may be told and may offend you or your girlfriend. They are not malicious in the main, they just reflect the fact that people use race as the key marker, far above the person in question's individual character or personality, to judge people.

[Toknarok]

           You will find that many Isaan people are as black (or even darker) than your girlfriend. Even so you may hear her being referred to as 'chocolate'. It's not really racist. Isaan people themselves are often looked down upon by their lighter skinned fellow countrymen, that's a 'class' thing rather than racist.

[yosib157]

Many of the Football League footballers are from Cameroon as are some teachers and, from my observations, they don't have any race issues.

[godblessemall]

I would say the North has more variety of scenery and lifestyles, with various tribal groups and cultures. Not decrying Isaan or its people, but just think Isaan is less varied and everywhere there is pretty much the same.

 

[mrblonde]

42 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Oooh, this is a good clickbait topic, nice one.

 

Anyway I'll bite. Thai culture from top to bottom is, by the current Western definition of racism, racist.

 

People are judged by their appearance, skin colour and race and non-Thais are classified by the same criteria.

 

One current negative connotation of racism in the West is the stereotyped skinhead or redneck spray painting a swastika on the immigrant's house or sending them to the back of the bus or refusing to serve them or punching them in the street. That will not happen.

 

However, thoughtless jokes about chocolate or bananas or monkeys may be told and may offend you or your girlfriend. They are not malicious in the main, they just reflect the fact that people use race as the key marker, far above the person in question's individual character or personality, to judge people.

 

Thanks Briggsy, and sorry the topic wasnt to catch anyone out or anything.  I should of said in my original past the gf is very cool with skin colour jokes etc (we often wind each other up at home or when out of earshot of anyone who could take offence to our own jokes) so I'm guessing racism, or racist was too strong a word?  The girls in Ayutthaya in the only bar we found at night referred to her as 'chocolate' and 'same superstar pop star' (I told her not to get too big a head about it). 

 

Good post from you, I like it

[SaintLouisBlues]

One of my boyfriends is from Isaan and his racism is boundless - usually about other Asians, Indians (of course) and "Arabs". I would think his attitudes come from the environment in which he was raised

[mrblonde]

39 minutes ago, Toknarok said:

           You will find that many Isaan people are as black (or even darker) than your girlfriend. Even so you may hear her being referred to as 'chocolate'. It's not really racist. Isaan people themselves are often looked down upon by their lighter skinned fellow countrymen, that's a 'class' thing rather than racist.

Thanks Toknarok

We hear the chocolate thing in both ayutthaya and Pattaya and she laughs about it.  I saw the 'class' thing in BKK a few times in the past, I went to watch Man City play about 10 years ago with a thai girl who was very dark and she felt uncomfortable among the richer, paler skinned BKK thais.

 

Personally, I much prefer the dark skinned look

[Colabamumbai]

Foreigners are probably more racist in Isaan than Thais. Most will not even say good morning to a white man.

[godblessemall]

16 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

Foreigners are probably more racist in Isaan than Thais. Most will not even say good morning to a white man.

 

Not just Issan. There seems to be a certain kind of farang who is living as an expat and whether has been a few years or a lot seems to look down his nose at other (lesser) farangs who he assumes are either tourists or sexpats or something. Some of the worst for this kind of attitude seem to be the missionaries and their extended families or visiting donors/groupies who treat everyone who isn't a missionary as a sex tourist. (not saying there is anything wrong with them either).

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by godblessemall
spelling

[thehelmsman]

Go anywhere you please, have a good time. Don't overthink it and go with the flow.

[hdkane]

Just because someone is black doesn't mean she/he will experience racism.  I suspect if she and you have a positive attitude, you will receive a warm welcome.  

[DILLIGAD]

Go anywhere you please, have a good time. Don't overthink it and go with the flow.

Agree, life is too short.
When fish get caught & thrown back, do you think they tell their mates that they were abducted by aliens?


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[Strange]

I don't think you will find any racism or discrimination but might be stared at and ogled by some similar to an animal in a zoo that nobody has ever seen before. Its not really a negative thing but might get tiring lol

 

Not like its going to happen all the time but it might be a notable experience. 

[1FinickyOne]

I would expect that you will be treated the same as you were in other areas of Thailand - the difference will not be that great - - Thais like to tease and are playful... just smile and have fun... they do it with each other too... 

 

 

[soalbundy]

I don't think you will find that people in Isaan are racist, certainly no more than anywhere else in Thailand, they are for the most part downtrodden themselves so are open to any new contact that treats them with respect

[toenail]

If you do not understand Thai then you won't understand their childish jokes making fun of farang no matter if you're white, "chocolate", or red. Watch their movies and Thai humor makes fun of the obese, handicap, & the elderly. --Not based on prejudice but more of poor taste in a simple thinking culture. 

[soalbundy]

On 11/26/2016 at 10:28 AM, toenail said:

If you do not understand Thai then you won't understand their childish jokes making fun of farang no matter if you're white, "chocolate", or red. Watch their movies and Thai humor makes fun of the obese, handicap, & the elderly. --Not based on prejudice but more of poor taste in a simple thinking culture. 

Yes they haven't been handcuffed by PC yet,let me guess you are an old black obese handicapped Jew. In this world you have to give back as good as you get.

[mike324]

If you really meet a racist Thai, you will either be in an argument with them, or they will be giving you the stink eye. If they want to chat and take a picture with you, they are intrigue and have no bad intentions in general. Their poor choice of words is simply due to lack of sensitivity regarding to this issue and education. 

[DSJPC]

I spent 4 years in Isaan during the Vietnam War...there were many blacks in USAF...the Thai people treated them with just as much respect as us Caucasians...they called them "dum-dums", with no disrespect..."dum" means "black" in Thai...enjoy Isaan...it is a wonderful part of Thailand!

[1FinickyOne]

Also - many of the people you met in Pattaya are from Isaan - they go to Pattaya to work... You will not have any problems. Just keep smiling and enjoying the differences.. Thai people in general respond well to people who smile and are light hearted.. 

[loong]

I don't believe that there is much racism in Isaan, they just believe that they are superior to ALL foreigners.

[Davehappen]

I live in isaan, and don't see any racism, sometimes you might get stared at, like you just landed from another planet, but that's just curiosity, we have a local fella, odd job man, who's known as the black man because he's very very dark, simple. Out in the villages you will get stared at a lot more than in the city's, get out there and enjoy yourselves.

[Grubster]

I saw a picture of a school handout for young kids in the Bangkok post a few years back that showed a very dark skinned Thai kid and said "UGLY" underneath it, and a picture of a light skinned Thai kid that said "HANDSOME" under it.  Good way to teach english I guess. The article was about that not being a good thing.

 

 

 

 

[bbbbooboo]

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Oooh, this is a good clickbait topic, nice one.

 

Anyway I'll bite. Thai culture from top to bottom is, by the current Western definition of racism, racist.

 

People are judged by their appearance, skin colour and race and non-Thais are classified by the same criteria.

 

One current negative connotation of racism in the West is the stereotyped skinhead or redneck spray painting a swastika on the immigrant's house or sending them to the back of the bus or refusing to serve them or punching them in the street. That will not happen.

 

However, thoughtless jokes about chocolate or bananas or monkeys may be told and may offend you or your girlfriend. They are not malicious in the main, they just reflect the fact that people use race as the key marker, far above the person in question's individual character or personality, to judge people.

Hmmm.....for some reason the Thais seem to think they know more than westerners and as a result are better. The evidence would suggest this isn't correct. TIT

[DILLIGAD]

It's a bit like the old western movies here where the bad guys had black hats and the hero had a white Stetson.


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[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, bbbbooboo said:

Hmmm.....for some reason the Thais seem to think they know more than westerners and as a result are better. The evidence would suggest this isn't correct. TIT

 

Hi bbbbbbbb - I have been here a long time and I don't really see Thai acting or feeling like they are better. Though it might be understandable as most Westerners living here cannot read a newspaper or even have an intelligent conversation, in the language of the country they are living. Heck, most Westerners here can barely watch the television and get 3 words.

 

I have seen Westerners walking around as if they are superior to Thai. There are enough examples on this website of Westerners calling Thai stupid and such... some even think that the Thai should change the laws of the land to accommodate them, as Thai should be privileged to have them here.... 

[SantiSuk]

Seems to be a universal condition of man that communities have to find a class of people to stereotype and look down on.

 

 

I get the impression there are many more black-skinned foreigners around Isaan nowadays than when I first came to live here 9 years ago - lots teaching and travelling. Don't assume that Isaan in its larger towns and cities is the backwater that it's painted. I don't believe your girlfriend will feel at all uncomfortable relative to most other parts of the world.

 

Worst racism I experienced amongst Thais was sitting in business/first class twixt London and Bangkok, when I used to come here on business prior to immigrating. Not directed at me personally (to my face) but some of the conversations I got into about the world and life - jeez, I was not enamoured of the wealthy Thai Chinese business types. The older women were the worst (but that was a limited sample of a handful). 

 

[Caution - stereotype alert!] 

[mettech]

I live in one of the small village in Issan and am one out of three of us here and They all call me uncle that is ok with me  they are good people but a bit behind on many things but we could just imagine how it was 50 or 60 years ago.

Kids are more educated and just an example they ride the bus I mean they stand on the roof and they wave every time they come by so nothing to worry they are people too.

[LoVeFuN]

8 hours ago, mrblonde said:

Thanks Toknarok

We hear the chocolate thing in both ayutthaya and Pattaya and she laughs about it.  I saw the 'class' thing in BKK a few times in the past, I went to watch Man City play about 10 years ago with a thai girl who was very dark and she felt uncomfortable among the richer, paler skinned BKK thais.

 

Personally, I much prefer the dark skinned look

Well Mr mrblonde may I congratulate you on yours tastes, first going to watch Man City and preferring darker skinned Thais. I will be visiting my GF shortly who comes from Issan and who is very dark. She wants me to keep out of the sun to remain as white as possible. She sometimes applies that face skin lightening cream that I personally don't like. As a previous poster said they have this inbuilt sense of white skin somehow appearing better but I don't think they are racist because of this preference. Maybe the Bkk Thais are different but I think the pair of you should have a good time. By the way a good post.