Cuba's Fidel Castro, who defied US for 50 years, has died

[ftpjtm]

10 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

This was written by Jamie Suchlicki who was paid $6 million in US funds supposedly destined for Cuba to instead publish disparaging reports, none of it is in the slightest bit credible, it is US anti-Cuban propaganda.  I would prefer to go with the reports of the BBC, British government and the UN, all of which completely contradict Suchlicki's claims.

And yet there is a steady stream of Cubans risking their lives by floating across the Florida Straits in inner tubes to escape this "paradise". 

 

Confounding. 

[Shawn0000]

31 minutes ago, thai3 said:

Deposed a dictator and just replaced him, kicked out the mafia and installed the communist version.  If communism in Cuba has been so great why have so many Cubans left, and how come you never here of people wanting to go and live there? Communism does not work, never has and never will. It held back Cuba for decades, imposed a totalitarian vice on the people and made their lives an utter misery. Hero? only if you think monsters, sexual perverts and socialist hypocrites are.

 

Many who left were part of the regime that was overthrown, many more have left in search of wealth.

 

Saying communism doesn't work is as ridiculous as saying capitalism doesn't work due to the multitude of utter failures of capitalism.

 

The thing that really held back Cuba were the embargoes, obviously, and amazingly the still achieved great things despite this.

 

As for their lives being an utter misery, the Satisfaction with Life Index, compiled from data from UNESCO, WHO and the CIA gives Cuba 83rd place out of 178, many countries in Europe scoring far lower.

 

 

[Naam]

7 minutes ago, rijb said:

 

Do you think the Cuban people blame him, or the 8 US presidents, for their misery?

most Cubans i talked to during my three visits couldn't make up their mind whom to blame.

[Shawn0000]

6 minutes ago, ftpjtm said:

And yet there is a steady stream of Cubans risking their lives by floating across the Florida Straits in inner tubes to escape this "paradise". 

 

Confounding. 

 

No, it is not confounding at all, the average wage is $20 per month, that is why people leave, not because of the state of the hospitals, which are pretty decent considering the economic situation.

[Thrilla]

But but ..Castro cancelled Xmas

[elliss]

17 minutes ago, rijb said:

 

Do you think the Cuban people blame him, or the 8 US presidents, for their misery?

    What about when  the  Russian convoy , was  blocked  by  JFK . 

       God  bless America .

Edited November 26, 2016 by elliss

[ftpjtm]

25 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

No, it is not confounding at all, the average wage is $20 per month, that is why people leave, not because of the state of the hospitals, which are pretty decent considering the economic situation.

 

But according to your last post, they're happy as clams living on $20 per month. 

 

It must be the currents. Pity the poor tipo, relaxing at the beach in his inner tube, when he's suddenly pulled out into that treacherous ocean and deposited on shores of the evil empire. 

[Shawn0000]

7 minutes ago, ftpjtm said:

 

But according to your last post, they're happy as clams living on $20 per month. 

 

It must be the currents. Pity the poor tipo, relaxing at the beach in his inner tube, when he's suddenly pulled out into that treacherous ocean and deposited on shores of the evil empire. 

 

I didn't say that at all, I said that they are happier than most countries, it is not as if people are not migrating for economic reasons in countries all around the world, is it?  Anyway, back to the point, the link between this desire to move somewhere to make more money that is seen in Cuba like most every poor country, and the state of the Cuban health service is false.

[cumgranosalum]

37 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

No, it is not confounding at all, the average wage is $20 per month, that is why people leave, not because of the state of the hospitals, which are pretty decent considering the economic situation.

Unlike other migrants Cubans were offered financial incentives by the US govt. -"The Cuban Refugee Program provided more than $1.3 billion of direct financial assistance. They also were eligible for public assistance, Medicare, free English courses, scholarships, and low-interest college loans" - wiki

 

Furthermore - "the wet foot, dry foot policy still affords Cubans a privileged position relative to other immigrants to the U.S."

 

 

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, ftpjtm said:

No, but I'm sure you'll explain. 

Why wiould I do that? If you're not capable of realising you aren't putting forward a valid argument, I'd say it's up to you to find out why 

Edited November 26, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Jingthing]

The highly intellectual and diplomatic president elect of the United States, the honorable D.J. "Bait and Switch" trump responds to the news:

 

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  3h3 hours ago

Fidel Castro is dead!

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Jingthing

[Thakkar]

Castro: 

12 American administrations couldn't kill him

The CIA couldn't kill him

Tar and nicotine from his cigars couldn't kill him

Sickness couldn't kill him 

Even age couldn't kill him

The election of Trump finally did him in!

 

See? Trump's winning already.

[ftpjtm]

42 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

Why wiould I do that? If you're not capable of realising you aren't putting forward a valid argument, I'd say it's up to you to find out why 

I rechecked and see that I mixed some sarcasm in with a valid argument. 

 

Perhaps you can't differentiate between the two. 

[ftpjtm]

49 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

I didn't say that at all, I said that they are happier than most countries, it is not as if people are not migrating for economic reasons in countries all around the world, is it?  Anyway, back to the point, the link between this desire to move somewhere to make more money that is seen in Cuba like most every poor country, and the state of the Cuban health service is false.

Well I'll give you that one. 

 

After all It's pretty tough to make an ocean crossing in an inner tube while deathly ill. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by ftpjtm

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

At what cost?  One of the highest literacy rates in the world, the highest number of doctors to patients in the world resulting in some of the best health statistics in the Americas, for instance.

Castro gave people a fishing pole and taught them how to fish and not just be American bait to lure tourism for tourism's benefit and well all know who control the tourism. Yes Cuba is poor no doubt but when a foreign country encircles you with gunboats and embargo's you have little chance of any advancement you play the cards your dealt. 

[ftpjtm]

18 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Castro gave people a fishing pole and taught them how to fish and not just be American bait to lure tourism for tourism's benefit and well all know who control the tourism. Yes Cuba is poor no doubt but when a foreign country encircles you with gunboats and embargo's you have little chance of any advancement you play the cards your dealt. 

Ah yes. Defiantly rejecting all overtures for reconciliation with the West, while brutally silencing all Cuban critics and subjecting Cubans to abject poverty. 

 

What a hero. Right up there with Kim Jong-Il, comrade. 

[dru2]

2 hours ago, elliss said:

    What about when  the  Russian convoy , was  blocked  by  JFK . 

       God  bless America .

There is no god, and America is not exceptional. Get real.

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies removed.  

[geriatrickid]

12 hours ago, oldcarguy said:

Miami is celebrating tonight !

 

Correction; The  elderly members of the  cuban community are celebrating. Cubans udner the age of 50  are more open to peace and reconciliation, and those under the age of 30 have little desire to maintain a grudge. Time really does heal.

[hawker9000]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

One of the extraordinary men of modern times.

While some ( probably many ) will dislike his politics, he liberated his land from dictatorship, American imperialism and the mafia. His biggest mistake was no doubt permitting Russian missiles to be installed, which IMO allowed the US to impose a severe embargo for many years. Were it not for that, I reckon his regime would have not been so extreme, and relations with the US could have been normalized many years ago.

 

Within Cuba, he is no doubt remembered with fondness and respect, which, IMO, is the only thing that counts.

 

Pffft. Another communist thug bites the dust.  Good riddance.  May his brother soon follow.

[klikster]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

How did Fidel change your life?
 

 

Nukes in Cuba -- worried there might be a war so I enlisted.

 

That war didn't happen -- Vietnam did.

[stancatts]

Castro condemned two generations of Cubans to poverty and dictatorship. He was a murderous megalomaniac. 

[bandito]

A dictator who send hundreds to jail because they did not agree with to way he did run the country. One of the worst. Do it my way or else! Sounds familiar?

[ftpjtm]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Correction; The  elderly members of the  cuban community are celebrating. Cubans udner the age of 50  are more open to peace and reconciliation, and those under the age of 30 have little desire to maintain a grudge. Time really does heal.

Looks like all ages celebrating to me. 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/26/us/miami-fidel-castro-death-reaction/

[hawker9000]

14 minutes ago, ftpjtm said:

Looks like all ages celebrating to me. 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/26/us/miami-fidel-castro-death-reaction/

A silly point to try & make.  Younger Cubans have never known anything different.  Older Cubans understand the cost of opposition in Cuba.   (Psssst - it's called intimidation.  Working quite well in places like N. Korea, China, and Iran, too.  'Did absolute miracles for Hitler & Stalin.)

 

[craigt3365]

11 hours ago, Naam said:

not to forget that he survived 8 US presidents who caused misery to the Cuban people.

Can't blame the US for everything.  Responsibility lies with the people governing Cuba.  If you've ever been, you'd see how they treat their own people, and it ain't great.

[craigt3365]

11 hours ago, al007 said:

 

So so true, I loved the place, felt much safer than in Thailand, and my personal belief there were less restrictions on visitors than there are in Thailand, and maybe more freedom than here, controversial but my view.

Could you walk around with the locals?  No.  If you did, they would be arrested.  Could you stay with them?  No.  Spies are everywhere and would turn your hosts into the police.  Did you ever see their ration cards?  It's the only way most get the basics, sugar, flour, etc.

 

I stayed only in Casa Particulars.  One wasn't and I had to enter via a hidden door!  I had a friend drive me around.  Illegal, so I had to wear a big hat and kind slouch down so we couldn't get caught.  I could go on and on with stories like this.  Loved the people, but they were treated very poorly.

 

Very little freedom in Cuba.  But getting a bit better.

[metisdead]

More nonsense posts have been removed. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by metisdead

[craigt3365]

11 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

I find it amusing when Americans talk of Cuba, because alone in the western world they are the ones who have never been there....

Many Americans have been.  Not that hard to go there.  Legally or not.

[craigt3365]

From another forum:

Quote

It's been said that Castro gave the Cuban people the best educational system, best medical system and best sports system in all of Latin America. The 3 things Castro didn't provide for his people were: breakfast, lunch & dinner.

 

When I was there, we were at a market.  I saw an apple and bought one.  My friend's sister was looking at me intensely.  I asked if she wanted one.  YES!  I watched her try to eat it.  She couldn't figure it out.  I asked what was going on?  She was 27 and had never eaten an apple.  Too expensive for the average person.