UK voters reject ''hard Brexit'' in shock Lib Dem by-election victory

[SaintLouisBlues]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

In a constituency that (strongly) voted remain in the referendum....

 

Not sure why its a "shock" that a strongly remain constituency voted for a remain candidate?

Not only that, but a constituency with an unpopular incumbent Tory member standing for election as an Independent. Goldsmith had been defeated as Tory candidate for London Mayor because of his personal unpopularity, and his resignation triggering the by-election was widely seen as an act of self-indulgence

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/03/zac-goldsmith-last-punt-self-loathing-accumulator-richmond-park

Edited December 3, 2016 by SaintLouisBlues

[rockingrobin]

7 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

An MP with a mandate to oppose Brexit

 

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

In a constituency that (strongly) voted remain in the referendum....

 

Not sure why its a "shock" that a strongly remain constituency voted for a remain candidate?

Is she the only MP that as been elected with a mandate on Brexit , either for or opposed

[dunroaming]

Not too much should be read into this.  Richmond is just down the road from me and a favourite destination for Sunday lunch by the river.  Historically it was a Liberal leaning town but recently Zac has been a popular MP.  Not so much about his former party as the man.  He disappointed his constituents when he supported Brexit when 70% of them wanted remain.

 

So this wasn't a victory for the Liberals as much as a snub to Goldsmith.  Lot's of old school money in Richmond so Labour was never an option.  It is no secret that there is  a serious unease with May as Prime Minister now and that may help the Liberals claw back some votes, especially with their anti-Brexit stance.

 

The Brexiteers chant of "you lost so stop whinging and get on with it" is sounding more hollow as the reality sinks in.  Not on this board though!!

[Khun Han]

54 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

A great question if coming from the Monster Raving Loony Party.

 

Is that reply supposed to be in some way witty?

[mrbojangles]

Quote

Pro-EU Liberal Democrat candidate Sarah Olney won the south west London constituency of Richmond Park, running a campaign promising to vote in parliament against the UK leaving the EU.

 

Well at least we now know that the Democrat part of Lib Dem doesn't mean they believe in Democracy

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Not too much should be read into this.  Richmond is just down the road from me and a favourite destination for Sunday lunch by the river.  Historically it was a Liberal leaning town but recently Zac has been a popular MP.  Not so much about his former party as the man.  He disappointed his constituents when he supported Brexit when 70% of them wanted remain.

 

So this wasn't a victory for the Liberals as much as a snub to Goldsmith.  Lot's of old school money in Richmond so Labour was never an option.  It is no secret that there is  a serious unease with May as Prime Minister now and that may help the Liberals claw back some votes, especially with their anti-Brexit stance.

 

The Brexiteers chant of "you lost so stop whinging and get on with it" is sounding more hollow as the reality sinks in.  Not on this board though!!

You start off by pointing out that Richmond is a very prosperous area that voted 70% to remain - and ended implying that this by-election represented the electorate as a whole?

[Basil B]

7 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

An MP with a mandate to oppose Brexit

Remember 48% of voters in the Referendum voted to remain, most parties have nailed their colours to the Brexit mast...

So  this could mean 48% vote Lib Dem and 52% split Tory, Labour, UKIP and other parties come the next election.

[dunroaming]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

A great question if coming from the Monster Raving Loony Party.

 

Is that reply supposed to be in some way witty?

 

Given the state of the political parties in the UK,  I think that the Monster Raving Loony Party has a good chance of winning a seat some day soon!

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You start off by pointing out that Richmond is a very prosperous area that voted 70% to remain - and ended implying that this by-election represented the electorate as a whole?

 

I know my post was a bit of a ramble but did I really imply that?  The country is still split but given the statements that have been coming out this week from the Brexit Tories many of the leave voters are understandably less gung-ho than they have been

[Orac]

It is a difficult result to read too much into in its own right due to the odd circumstances however, when looked at along with other recent votes in local elections there are strong signs that the Lib Dems are getting their act back together after the abismal spectacle  of Nick Clegg in a coalition government bring seen as something of a whipping boy. Since Labour are still at each others throats it must give May some concern that the Lib Dems could become a credible threat again by the time a general election is due.

 

Last 6 months of local election results are on the chart attached

 

 

 

 

[i claudius]

8 hours ago, Loeilad said:

The tories fear an election, but with a newly appointed PM a remainer pushing for a leave deal in a country that now appears to be against leaving who doesn't want to lose her unexpected position it will be hard to achieve.

 

Goldsmith was fighting in his heartland on a NIMBY ticket which was overshadowed by an anti-Brexit vote who preferred a candidate with no political history from previously lame duck party who overturned a 23k majority....that is some angry protest.

 

I think it is fairly clear that any general election would now kick out Brexit for good. .... but Theresa may would lose her premiership - the things people will do to hold on to power - openly support a policy they were against.

 

In your dreams , if an election was held now , Tories would sweep the board ,,labour would be annialated as for the lib dems , they are a non party anyway what  9 mp's Tories 328

Edited December 3, 2016 by i claudius

[kingalfred]

Amazing how the Liberal Undemocratic Party claims to know why people voted for them in a by election. Richmond voted to remain in referendum so Farron and his morons should go and peddle his lies in some other business


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[dunroaming]

34 minutes ago, i claudius said:

 

In your dreams , if an election was held now , Tories would sweep the board ,,labour would be annialated as for the lib dems , they are a non party anyway what  9 mp's Tories 328

 

May won't call an election now, much too risky.  I think that the Tories would win but she may well lose some of the key politicians along the way, such is the unrest in the country.  I think it could go either way for UKip.  The government's commitment to Brexit should mean that UKip are dead in the water, no point in them at all.  However, with the government struggling to find a way for Brexit the leave voters may decide that UKip is the party to keep the pressure on for a hard Brexit and more of them would vote for them.  The Liberal Party would be the protest vote and labour would struggle to keep up as they are today.

[dunroaming]

25 minutes ago, kingalfred said:

Amazing how the Liberal Undemocratic Party claims to know why people voted for them in a by election. Richmond voted to remain in referendum so Farron and his morons should go and peddle his lies in some other business


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Farron and the Liberal party made it very clear that the result was directly due to Brexit, they were under no illusions about that.  However they will obviously use their anti Brexit vibe to rally support.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, mrbojangles said:

 

Well at least we now know that the Democrat part of Lib Dem doesn't mean they believe in Democracy

 

that would be apparently as opposed to the Brexit supporters who neither believe in parliamentary democracy or the legal system

[7by7]

9 hours ago, Loeilad said:

<snip>

I think it is fairly clear that any general election would now kick out Brexit for good. .... but Theresa may would lose her premiership - the things people will do to hold on to power - openly support a policy they were against.

 

A pro Remain candidate won, with a comparatively slim majority, in a constituency which in the referendum voted by a large majority for Remain.

 

Yet you use that as evidence that the whole country has changed it's mind?

 

As a Remainer, I wish that were so; but I doubt it.

 

May, and most of her government, were Remainers; but are now committed to Brexit and obtaining the best possible terms for the UK. Not in some desperate effort to hold onto power, but to follow the will of the people as expressed in the referendum.

 

It's called democracy, and I hope that were a general election to be called before 2020, which is extremely unlikely,  that whichever party won they would do the same.

 

I still believe that the advantages of EU membership outweigh the disadvantages; that the disadvantages of Brexit outweigh the advantages.

 

But I also believe in democracy and so have accepted the referendum result; as do and have Mrs. May and her government.

 

It appears that Ms Olnay and her party don't and haven't.

 

 

 

 

 

[Basil B]

4 hours ago, Loeilad said:

I think you should first look into the background of that constituency before making a facile comment like that.

 

So why did the Tory's not field a candidate???

 

Were they supporting the Lib Dems??? 

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

So why did the Tory's not field a candidate???

 

Were they supporting the Lib Dems??? 

 

Goldsmith resigned in protest over the government's decision to build a third runway at Heathrow.

 

The Tories decided not to field a candidate as they did not wish to risk splitting the Tory vote and hoped this would mean Goldsmith being returned to Parliament where he would support the government on most matters.

 

[dunroaming]

17 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

But I also believe in democracy and so have accepted the referendum result; as do and have Mrs. May and her government.

 

It appears that Ms Olnay and her party don't and haven't.

 

Yes I agree but it isn't that simple as I see it.  The Liberals are and always have run on an anti Brexit ticket so they aren't changing their stance over that.

 

I voted remain but at the time only by a narrow margin.  Since  then I (like everyone else) can see the pitfalls and difficulties of Brexit and the inability of May and the team to deliver a satisfactory result.  Therefore I think it is understandable that people are now reluctant to follow a path that leads us further into the unknown. 

 

The argument being that if you are walking down a dark alley and into the unknown should you have the right to stop and consider your journey, or do you have to go on regardless not knowing where it will lead you?  If so, is that realy democracy?

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Goldsmith resigned in protest over the government's decision to build a third runway at Heathrow.

 

The Tories decided not to field a candidate as they did not wish to risk splitting the Tory vote and hoped this would mean Goldsmith being returned to Parliament where he would support the government on most matters.

 

 

Absolutely correct

[Loeilad]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

 

So why did the Tory's not field a candidate???

 

Were they supporting the Lib Dems??? 

sorry posted in error - I was laughing at those who didn't understand why the tories didn't put up a candidate

Edited December 3, 2016 by Loeilad

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

A pro Remain candidate won, with a comparatively slim majority, in a constituency which in the referendum voted by a large majority for Remain.

 

Yet you use that as evidence that the whole country has changed it's mind?

 

As a Remainer, I wish that were so; but I doubt it.

 

May, and most of her government, were Remainers; but are now committed to Brexit and obtaining the best possible terms for the UK. Not in some desperate effort to hold onto power, but to follow the will of the people as expressed in the referendum.

 

It's called democracy, and I hope that were a general election to be called before 2020, which is extremely unlikely,  that whichever party won they would do the same.

 

I still believe that the advantages of EU membership outweigh the disadvantages; that the disadvantages of Brexit outweigh the advantages.

 

But I also believe in democracy and so have accepted the referendum result; as do and have Mrs. May and her government.

 

It appears that Ms Olnay and her party don't and haven't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought you people wanted MPs to directly represent the views of their electorate. Make your mind up!!

 

As for LibDem being undemocratic, in what way?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

A pro Remain candidate won, with a comparatively slim majority, in a constituency which in the referendum voted by a large majority for Remain.

 

Yet you use that as evidence that the whole country has changed it's mind?

 

As a Remainer, I wish that were so; but I doubt it.

 

May, and most of her government, were Remainers; but are now committed to Brexit and obtaining the best possible terms for the UK. Not in some desperate effort to hold onto power, but to follow the will of the people as expressed in the referendum.

 

It's called democracy, and I hope that were a general election to be called before 2020, which is extremely unlikely,  that whichever party won they would do the same.

 

I still believe that the advantages of EU membership outweigh the disadvantages; that the disadvantages of Brexit outweigh the advantages.

 

But I also believe in democracy and so have accepted the referendum result; as do and have Mrs. May and her government.

 

It appears that Ms Olnay and her party don't and haven't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

24,000 swing away from the pro Brexit candidate to the pro-remain candidate. Let's have a general election ?

[Grouse]

And another thing

 

Often people consider a vote for the "third party" to be a wasted vote. This win might just change that.

 

I think most people now consider a Labour vote to be a waste of time.

 

The Brexit vote will be split between UKIP and the Con Party. Maybe, just maybe, Lib Dems might be the intelligent choice ?

[ukrules]

21 minutes ago, Grouse said:

And another thing

 

Often people consider a vote for the "third party" to be a wasted vote. This win might just change that.

 

I think most people now consider a Labour vote to be a waste of time.

 

The Brexit vote will be split between UKIP and the Con Party. Maybe, just maybe, Lib Dems might be the intelligent choice ?

 

Labour is already the third party, they just don't realise it yet. That will take an election.

[nontabury]

9 hours ago, JAG said:

Ah, another "Liberal revival" based on a by election result.

 

Used to happen about every six months when I was a lad...........

 

   Sarah Olney the new Liberal/ Democratic M.P has already been shown to be completely out of her depth. Look her up on YouTube, her Interview on Talk radio was a complete embarrassment.

[billd766]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Of course, but I am tired of Brexiter indignation that the will of the country is somehow being dismissed.

Brexiters won the vote but they do not reflect the mood of the majority of the country.

 

How many people have you personally surveyed in the UK and in what areas to come to that conclusion?

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

The Brexit vote will be split between UKIP and the Con Party. Maybe, just maybe, Lib Dems might be the intelligent choice ?

I was just about to like this sentence until the last part. The Lib Dems as an intelligent choice just had me giggle.

[Grouse]

24 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I was just about to like this sentence until the last part. The Lib Dems as an intelligent choice just had me giggle.

 

If I can make you giggle, Gravy, I'm a happy man ?

[Laughing Gravy]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

If I can make you giggle, Gravy, I'm a happy man ?

You did thanks. I have been absent as I was sent to the naughty corner for 5 days without a warning. Someone didn't like my honest but sarcastic reply, so I was sidelined. it was quite refreshing though just reading and not commenting. Anyway I am back.