UK voters reject ''hard Brexit'' in shock Lib Dem by-election victory

[Laughing Gravy]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

You've been a very naughty boy!

 

Anyway, good to see you back ?

With Italy giving the middle finger to the prime minister, the euro zone is looking more and more fractured and the Euro looking less and less attractive. People just might start wanting a hard brexit, as staying in the single market could be disastrous for the UK..

[Laughing Gravy]

11 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Ah, yes.

 

The Nicola Sturgeon approach to referenda; "I don't like the result, so I'll  keep on demanding repeat ones until I get my way!"

It is also a ploy and favourite action of the EU who also have the cheek to claim they are democratic. Laughable to say the least.

[i claudius]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Facile. There has been significant debate since the referendum and people can see the likely effects already. With such an important decision one might want to check after a cooling off period. Why are you Brexiteers so nervous?

 

They arn't , just amused at all the remainers moaning and constantly groaning , just like babies that have thrown their dummy out of the pram ,just get on with life ,you lost ,its all over bar the constant whining ..

[Laughing Gravy]

Very quiet this morning from the staunch EU  TV supporters. I wonder why? Has it got something to do with Italy? It is about time that people realized what the EU is  all about and what is inevitable. Bye, Bye. EU.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, i claudius said:

 

They arn't , just amused at all the remainers moaning and constantly groaning , just like babies that have thrown their dummy out of the pram ,just get on with life ,you lost ,its all over bar the constant whining ..

 

Except when it is the High Court decision going against you, then its your dummy and your pram.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Very quiet this morning from the staunch EU  TV supporters. I wonder why? Has it got something to do with Italy? It is about time that people realized what the EU is  all about and what is inevitable. Bye, Bye. EU.

 

Personally, I was too busy laughing about the failure of the Austrian nazi to get elected President, despite the assurances of many of his TV fans that he was a shoo-in.  Thankfully the Austrians saw through his hideous rhetoric and showed the lying racist the door. Pity we Brits weren't so perceptive.

[i claudius]

 
Except when it is the High Court decision going against you, then its your dummy and your pram.

Just a hold up by the left wing E U loving judges, who were in fact the ones throwing the dummies,no big deal in the end

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[SheungWan]

32 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Just a hold up by the left wing E U loving judges, who were in fact the ones throwing the dummies,no big deal in the end

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk
 

 

A very big deal maintaining the independence of the judiciary but that just illustrates the threat of some hard brexiteer trends in the body politic. The bottom line legally is that just as any of the UK parties are perfectly at liberty to call for a second referendum if they so wish to, on the other side the government is fully entitled  legally  to appeal the High Court decision to the Supreme Court. The hard brexiteers whose sole recourse is to badmouth any decision-maker who gets in their way, fortunately for now, remains the preserve of a minority notwithstanding their vainglorious attempts to usurp both the judiciary and the UK's parliamentary system trying (with nothing else to grab on to) to ride royal prerogative.

Edited December 5, 2016 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

48 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Personally, I was too busy laughing about the failure of the Austrian nazi to get elected President, despite the assurances of many of his TV fans that he was a shoo-in.  Thankfully the Austrians saw through his hideous rhetoric and showed the lying racist the door. Pity we Brits weren't so perceptive.

 

I wouldn't spare any pity, if I were you, pitying any of the forum Brits cheering on fascist elements on the Continent.

[i claudius]

 

A very big deal maintaining the independence of the judiciary but that just illustrates the threat of some hard brexiteer trends in the body politic. The bottom line legally is that just as any of the UK parties are perfectly at liberty to call for a second referendum if they so wish to, on the other side the government is fully entitled  legally  to appeal the High Court decision to the Supreme Court. The hard brexiteers whose sole recourse is to badmouth any decision-maker who gets in their way, fortunately for now, remains the preserve of a minority notwithstanding their vainglorious attempts to usurp both the judiciary and the UK's parliamentary system trying (with nothing else to grab on to) to ride royal prerogative.

Independence of the judiciary? That lot? You having a laugh,to coin a phrase

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[SheungWan]

11 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Independence of the judiciary? That lot? You having a laugh,to coin a phrase

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

 

One of the unfortunate side-effects of the Brexit campaign has been the identification of elements within the body politic whose sole desire has been to undermine both parliamentary democracy and the legal system despite their proclaimed wish during the campaign to return decision-making to the UK. There was certainly no suggestion during the campaign that the legal system which as with parliamentary democracy has evolved over hundreds of years should be trashed. And certainly no suggestion that it should be trashed in favour of royal prerogative. Some of those populist elements clearly flirting with fascism so no surprise then that they should be cuddling up to bosom buddies such as the French NF and the recently defeated Austrian hard-right party. Can't keep the snarling under wraps for too long it would appear.

[dick dasterdly]

40 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

One of the unfortunate side-effects of the Brexit campaign has been the identification of elements within the body politic whose sole desire has been to undermine both parliamentary democracy and the legal system despite their proclaimed wish during the campaign to return decision-making to the UK. There was certainly no suggestion during the campaign that the legal system which as with parliamentary democracy has evolved over hundreds of years should be trashed. And certainly no suggestion that it should be trashed in favour of royal prerogative. Some of those populist elements clearly flirting with fascism so no surprise then that they should be cuddling up to bosom buddies such as the French NF and the recently defeated Austrian hard-right party. Can't keep the snarling under wraps for too long it would appear.

Sadly, it is the politicians lack of concern about the vast majority of their electorate that has led to them (the electorate) voting for 'change'.

 

It has nothing to do with "elements within the body politic whose sole desire has been to undermine both parliamentary democracy and the legal system".

Edited December 5, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[CharlieK]

14 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

Old school 'Blame The Politicians' malarkey resurrected by hard brexiteers frustrated at the holy grail seemingly slipping off towards the horizon.

 

Indeed, I blame the politicians because the referendum wasn't really about giving the people a choice, it was about the tory party. there was no Brexit plan because they really thought the vote would be a yes. 

 

Even the timing of the referendum is questionable IMO. It was after all an advisory referendum. So no real obligation on the government's part to implement it, whence the hearing in the supreme court. Not to mention that with elections in the EU, the UK would probably have to wait till after the German elections for any real negotiations to take place.

 

I am for Brexit, but not a fanatic about it. sovereignty and control over immigration are my concerns, and never to join the euro. But that doesn't mean I want to see the UK ruined over what is a political party squabble.

 

Besides who really trusts politicians? It is embarrassing to watch that idiot Boris open his mouth on the EU. lol

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rockingrobin]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

Except when it is the High Court decision going against you, then its your dummy and your pram.

The High Court decision was neither for or against Brexit , it concerned who has the decision to invoke Art 50. While it may be politically expedient to claim the HC is frustating the will of the people, this argument fails because it is just wrong.

The referendum result has no legal status and thus cannot be overturned by lawyers or Courts.

In the UK parliament is responsible for the making of laws, when passing the referendum act parliament could have made it binding however it did not do so.

[CharlieK]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

One of the unfortunate side-effects of the Brexit campaign has been the identification of elements within the body politic whose sole desire has been to undermine both parliamentary democracy and the legal system despite their proclaimed wish during the campaign to return decision-making to the UK.

To quote you again!

 

"Old school 'Blame The Politicians' malarkey" 

Edited December 5, 2016 by CharlieK

[nontabury]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Personally, I was too busy laughing about the failure of the Austrian nazi to get elected President, despite the assurances of many of his TV fans that he was a shoo-in.  Thankfully the Austrians saw through his hideous rhetoric and showed the lying racist the door. Pity we Brits weren't so perceptive.

 

  You call the failed Austrian candidate a Nazi,does that also go for other failed nationalist politicians.

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

  You call the failed Austrian candidate a Nazi,does that also go for other failed nationalist politicians.

 

Extremely objectionable

 

Reported to Moderators

 

Kindly delete and apologise

[Grouse]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

 

If we're going to call people NAZIs, let's understand what that means

Edited December 5, 2016 by Grouse

[Orac]

It was interesting to hear who the Austrian 'nazi' pointed the finger at for his loss - maybe he just wasn't right wing enough!

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/04/austria-election-norbert-hofer-cusp-becoming-europes-first-far/

 

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Orac

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, Orac said:

It was interesting to hear who the Austrian 'nazi' pointed the finger at for his loss - maybe he just wasn't right wing enough!

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/04/austria-election-norbert-hofer-cusp-becoming-europes-first-far/

 

 

 

 I agree with that sentiment 100%, at least as long as all the other EU countries politicians plus all the EU leaders not interfere in respect of the UK and its politicians and their decisions.

[TheAppletons]

  If we're going to be accurate, shouldn't the headline read "Bitter London Elites Finally Win An Election"?

[Orac]

  If we're going to be accurate, shouldn't the headline read "Bitter London Elites Finally Win An Election"?

Difficult since that would probably need you to explain how Zac Goldsmith wasn't classed as a 'London elite'.

[TheAppletons]

12 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Difficult since that would probably need you to explain how Zac Goldsmith wasn't classed as a 'London elite'.

 

 

  Do I need to explain that the overwhelming majority of Londoners voted for Bremain?  I never said, or even implied, that Goldsmith was elite.  Quite the opposite.  

 

  Since you apparently didn't read the OP (or perhaps were unable to...due to time constraints or your lips becoming sore from reading):

 

  "London voted overwhelmingly to remain within the European Union and Olney’s election victory narrows the Conservative Party’s already slender 13-seat working majority in Parliament."
 

[CWMcMurray]

 

Totally incorrect: only 37% of the British electorate voted to leave. The majority voted to remain or did not vote at all.

I am not disputing that more voted for than against, but it is wrong to say that they majority of Brits support Brexit. Clearly they don't.

By this logic, you could also say a majority of Brits did not want to remain in the EU ..

As a majority either voted to leave the EU or stayed home..

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

  You call the failed Austrian candidate a Nazi,does that also go for other failed nationalist politicians.

 

What a great opportunity for you to learn the difference between National Socialism and Civic Nationalism.

And if you are still in the mood for self development, here is a free Photoshop For Beginners course - you badly need it, I am afraid.

No need to thank me for helping you make yourself more knowledgeable, you are most welcome.

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, CWMcMurray said:

By this logic, you could also say a majority of Brits did not want to remain in the EU ..

As a majority either voted to leave the EU or stayed home..

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Well, there is the conundrum, and you are right - all and sundry will spin it to suit their own purposes. For me, I would suggest that they must be happy with the status quo or they would have voted against it.

[nontabury]

36 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

What a great opportunity for you to learn the difference between National Socialism and Civic Nationalism.

And if you are still in the mood for self development, here is a free Photoshop For Beginners course - you badly need it, I am afraid.

No need to thank me for helping you make yourself more knowledgeable, you are most welcome.

 

Don't need photoshop, as this was posted to me from Scots living in Scotland, Maybe folks living in Manila are not up to date.

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

Don't need photoshop, as this was posted to me from Scots living in Scotland, Maybe folks living in Manila are not up to date.

 

Ok, but please do them a favour and explain to them why they are so wrong about liking Sturgeon to a nazi, and how offensive that is to so many people on so many levels.