Australian Age Pension Rules for Expats about to change again from 1 January 2017

[Coaster11]

1 hour ago, novo58 said:

for those too lazy to actually .read the attached links .............it clearly states :      "according to their years of working life residence in Australia". This is calculated from the age of 16 years old.

 

To me this means to get the full rate age pension you must have lived in australia for 35 or more years from the age of 16yrs old ( it DOES NOT mention work).

Then it appears that AFTER you qualify for the age pension there is a 2 year timeframe BEFORE the full rate age pension becomes portable( ie, able to be collected whilst outside the country). After this if you live outside Australia you will lose some added concessions  such as free travel , electricity subsidy etc

 

That's the real story right there.

 

Pensions definitely go a lot further in SE Asia but the country that pays it would rather the money be spent in their own country/economy....if they possibly can. Which is in direct conflict re ones own life style.

[Brer Fox]

21 hours ago, sandgroper2 said:

Bloody great. My suggestion for a better headline would be " Only dinkum Ozzies to qualify for a fixed old  age pension".  The others, get a top up pension from the country of your birth.

Agreed and fair enough too. Most of the double dipping pensioners are in Europe. They come to Australia for a while, get the pension and return to their home country to spend their retirement with family and friends and milk both systems.

[scorecard]

Has anybody ever heard of the following:

 

Too sick to go back and live alone (no surviving family in Oz) for the two years, therefore a compromise:

 

- Remain living in Thailand, gain approval, but on the basis that no benefits are paid for the first two years.

 

 

[Time Traveller]

How does the Australian pension system work? Wasn't it always based on the number of years residence ? What changes once you leave the country? 

[Evilbaz]

12 minutes ago, Brer Fox said:

Agreed and fair enough too. Most of the double dipping pensioners are in Europe. They come to Australia for a while, get the pension and return to their home country to spend their retirement with family and friends and milk both systems.

 

Sorry but that is no longer correct.

Any monies received from overseas pensions reduces your OAP.

I know because I receive two pensions from Canada as well as OAP.

When I applied 9 years ago I had to declare if I had ever lived overseas and no OAP was awarded until I showed any overseas entitlement I had.

 

I have received the basic rate OAP in Thailand since 2008.

 

[Brer Fox]

51 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

 

Sorry but that is no longer correct.

Any monies received from overseas pensions reduces your OAP.

I know because I receive two pensions from Canada as well as OAP.

When I applied 9 years ago I had to declare if I had ever lived overseas and no OAP was awarded until I showed any overseas entitlement I had.

 

I have received the basic rate OAP in Thailand since 2008.

 

As an Australian I am pleased to hear that. Presumably you are Canadian so why are you getting any Australian pension at all?

[sandgroper2]

20 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Sorry to burst your bubble: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2016B00091/Explanatory Memorandum/Text 

It aint in yet, but, to be wrong about something for the first time in about 25 years aint bad.

[madmax2]

It does not apply to politicians whose retirement is totally tax payer funded and do not need a pension, they get their payout anyway all in one payment if they want it

And it does not apply to self funded retirees who have paid more taxes in Australia than most people and have not been entitled to a pension for many years now

Become a politician if you have the gift of the gab and have no problem telling half truths and your future retirement payments you will get, no problem

[sandgroper2]

1 hour ago, Coaster11 said:

 

That's the real story right there.

 

Pensions definitely go a lot further in SE Asia but the country that pays it would rather the money be spent in their own country/economy....if they possibly can. Which is in direct conflict re ones own life style.

I was born in Oz, left there age 55, turned 65, went back , filled out my old age pension claim, came back here a week or so later, i get my old age pension. Two years???

[madmax2]

1 hour ago, lvr181 said:

Obviously the pension authorities have no way of checking pensioner movements by their passports? How antiquated.

Immigration dept informs centrelink when you leave and return to Australia and have done so for years

[sandgroper2]

2 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

Immigration dept informs centrelink when you leave and return to Australia and have done so for years

Correct.

[flynn]

49 minutes ago, sandgroper2 said:

I was born in Oz, left there age 55, turned 65, went back , filled out my old age pension claim, came back here a week or so later, i get my old age pension. Two years???

If you have the required 35 years in your ok. For me I haven't got the required 35 years, so I would have to stay in Australia from aged 64 to 66, to qualify for a moveable pension, and after the pension is granted and you leave to a country which does not have a reciprocal agreement with Australia,your pension is reduced after six weeks to a percentage rate worked out by the number of years you have been in Australia , that's what they told me in centerlink

Edited December 7, 2016 by flynn

[SaintLouisBlues]

21 hours ago, madmax2 said:

I know of plenty of immigrants who have paid taxes all of their working life in Australia (over 50 years) and quite often do not qualify for a pension  because they have invested and saved their money and have to much value in their assets 

Isn't that the point of the pension - it's a safety net for those who haven't got assets or income when they retire? The Aussie system is not the American systemwhere you save up throughout your working life through compulsory contributions to the Feds and then get Social Security at the end. Australian pensions are on a needs basis - do you need the money. That's what the assets and income tests determine

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 hour ago, madmax2 said:

Immigration dept informs centrelink when you leave and return to Australia and have done so for years

Because your passport # is linked to your Centrelink CRN

[madmax2]

Everything is linked passport, tax file, licenses (both my drivers license and firearms license had the  same number) centrelink CRN you name it

Australia does not have a personal ID card because the tax payers did not want one at the time the government suggested they needed one

The government know all about you without one including any savings you have in bank accounts and assets if you are not hiding your money under your mattress, big brother is watching you everywhere 

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, sandgroper2 said:

It aint in yet, but, to be wrong about something for the first time in about 25 years aint bad.

 

I have to agree with you, from what I have read, it passed the lower house, but I can't find anything to say it passed the upper house, suffice to say it has pretty much been set up on human services website but says something on the lines of that subject to passing legislation, pointless putting that on the website really.

 

Personally I hope it falls on its head i.e. because it could be an opening for more amendments down the track. 

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, sandgroper2 said:

I was born in Oz, left there age 55, turned 65, went back , filled out my old age pension claim, came back here a week or so later, i get my old age pension. Two years???

 

I too was born in Oz and worked for over 35 years, are you saying that I wouldn't have to sit it out for 2 years back in Oz to get the pension ?

[sandgroper2]

On 12/6/2016 at 5:37 PM, madmax2 said:

I know of plenty of immigrants who have paid taxes all of their working life in Australia (over 50 years) and quite often do not qualify for a pension  because they have invested and saved their money and have to much value in their assets 

I know Aussies born in Australia who only work for a living when forced to do so by centrelink

There are dole bludgers in both categories, If Australia had no immigrants there would probably be no money to pay pensions to anybody 

"' If Australia had no immigrants" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!   The most lease thought out comment i have ever read, anywhere.

[sandgroper2]

15 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I too was born in Oz and worked for over 35 years, are you saying that I wouldn't have to sit it out for 2 years back in Oz to get the pension ?

I can only tell you what my story is. That was 4 years ago.

[4MyEgo]

12 minutes ago, sandgroper2 said:

I can only tell you what my story is. That was 4 years ago.

Please do, every bit of information helps us all out.

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, Spock said:

Surely if you are in the country for 7 out of 12 months each of the last 2 years and hold an Australian residential address you qualify under the 2 year period?

  

If you are in the country for 183 days in a financial year you are automatically classed as a "resident", suffice to say as long as you stay for that 6 month period in the financial, not calendar year, your all good, I hope, as the 2 years implies to those living overseas, i.e. non residents, who have to come back and be reinstated their residency, which takes about 6 months, as does getting your Medicare card and your name back on the electoral roll, suffice to say there will be lots of paperwork the departments will want to see, e.g. lease, electricity bills, drivers licence, registration of vehicle/s, water, council rates, etc, etc, and its not automatic that you will get it, they have to be satisfied that you have returned for good so to speak.

Edited December 7, 2016 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, novo58 said:

for those too lazy to actually .read the attached links .............it clearly states :      "according to their years of working life residence in Australia". This is calculated from the age of 16 years old.

 

To me this means to get the full rate age pension you must have lived in australia for 35 or more years from the age of 16yrs old ( it DOES NOT mention work).

Then it appears that AFTER you qualify for the age pension there is a 2 year timeframe BEFORE the full rate age pension becomes portable( ie, able to be collected whilst outside the country). After this if you live outside Australia you will lose some added concessions  such as free travel , electricity subsidy etc

 

I read it different to you e.g. if I was 63 and living Thailand, I would then have to go back to Australia, live there for 2 years, once I was granted the pension, then I could jet..............i.e. not stay another 2 years before it could be portable, that would mean 4 years in total, as opposed to 2 years as I read it.

Edited December 7, 2016 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

How does the Australian pension system work? Wasn't it always based on the number of years residence ? What changes once you leave the country? 

When a person goes overseas their rate of Age Pension is paid according to their Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR) or years in Australia between the ages of 16 and Age Pension age. A person who has resided in Australia for 35 years between the ages of 16 and Age Pension will receive the full means tested rate, less any add-ons; while a person with less than 35 years will get a proportionate rate. For example, if you have lived in Australia for 10 years between the ages of 16 and age pension age, your proportion would be 10/35 multiplied by the normal income and asset tested rate of Age Pension.

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, novo58 said:

for those too lazy to actually .read the attached links .............it clearly states :      "according to their years of working life residence in Australia". This is calculated from the age of 16 years old.

 

To me this means to get the full rate age pension you must have lived in australia for 35 or more years from the age of 16yrs old ( it DOES NOT mention work).

Then it appears that AFTER you qualify for the age pension there is a 2 year timeframe BEFORE the full rate age pension becomes portable( ie, able to be collected whilst outside the country). After this if you live outside Australia you will lose some added concessions  such as free travel , electricity subsidy etc

I think that if you cannot show 35 years of work, i.e. paying taxes, you will get zero, it states that it is based on the (AWLR) Australian Working Life Residency, not Australian Life Residency, which would imply years lived in Australia, in other words, you paid your taxes for 35 years in this situation, your in, if you didn't pay taxes, your out.

 

That's the way I read it anyways.

 

.When a person goes overseas their rate of Age Pension is paid according to their Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR) or years in Australia between the ages of 16 and Age Pension age. A person who has resided in Australia for 35 years between the ages of 16 and Age Pension will receive the full means tested rate, less any add-ons; while a person with less than 35 years will get a proportionate rate. For example, if you have lived in Australia for 10 years between the ages of 16 and age pension age, your proportion would be 10/35 multiplied by the normal income and asset tested rate of Age Pension.

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

Has anybody ever heard of the following:

 

Too sick to go back and live alone (no surviving family in Oz) for the two years, therefore a compromise:

 

- Remain living in Thailand, gain approval, but on the basis that no benefits are paid for the first two years.

 

 

 

Do you think these mungrals would give a rats ass, you can give it a shot, but I am sure the would refer you to the legislation, which says, reside in Australia for 2 years prior to the OAP age.

 

Good luck and let me know if you come up with any other thoughts, because I could use one, e.g. Wife and I are divorcing, well there goes half the pension, next 555

 

 

[rhodie]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I think that if you cannot show 35 years of work, i.e. paying taxes, you will get zero, it states that it is based on the (AWLR) Australian Working Life Residency, not Australian Life Residency, which would imply years lived in Australia, in other words, you paid your taxes for 35 years in this situation, your in, if you didn't pay taxes, your out.

 

That's the way I read it anyways.

 

.When a person goes overseas their rate of Age Pension is paid according to their Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR) or years in Australia between the ages of 16 and Age Pension age. A person who has resided in Australia for 35 years between the ages of 16 and Age Pension will receive the full means tested rate, less any add-ons; while a person with less than 35 years will get a proportionate rate. For example, if you have lived in Australia for 10 years between the ages of 16 and age pension age, your proportion would be 10/35 multiplied by the normal income and asset tested rate of Age Pension.

 

I think by working life, they mean the period where you are of a workable age. So if your retirement age is 65 but you stay here another 5 years, that 5 years is not part of your AWLR. It only counts up to retirement age.

[masuk]

On 06/12/2016 at 2:48 PM, SaintLouisBlues said:

The story you quote mentions nothing about ex-pats and the relevant Centrelink page does not mention these limits either, apart from stating that some supplementary benefits (but not the core pension) will be reduced after six weeks. However that's nothing new. Pensioners who travel overseas for longer than six weeks lose their entitlements to government concessions on eg. electricity and gas, and have done so for at least the past three years, but since they're not using electricity and gas while overseas that's hardly a penalty. A friend of mine from the UK has been living in Thailand for more than 10 years still receives his UK pension heating allowance because he's never told them he's out of the country

The UK Border Control don't seem to be using electronic passports.   As soon as one enters or leaves Australia, your name etc is in the system ,and all relevant agencies notified.

[moojar]

I called Centrelink International Services today. After enjoying the on-hold music for 15 or 20 minutes I got to speak to someone. 

 

Firstly, there is no defined 'residency' period. It is at the discretion of the local Centrelink officer processing your application. 

 

For people like us, already retired and spending time out of the country, they look at:
- Family Ties (Some mention of ".. and with your wife being from Thailand ...")
- Assets
- Travel history. 

 

And it is the travel history that carries the most weight. The Centrelink officer couldn't give me a firm answer on how long you would have to spend in the country each year prior to reaching pension age to be deemed resident - as she said, "there is no cut and dried answer". She did say six weeks per year would not be enough, that is just a visit, it is not classed as spending time at home.

 

She also could not tell me how many years they go back to look at your travel history. 

 

The suggestion was that I speak to someone in the 'aged pension' section to try and get more information. 

[moojar]

^ If they decide you are not resident you still get your OAP.  You just cannot leave the country for two years - not even for a holiday - without losing your pension, and having to start the two-year clock ticking fresh if you apply again. (As I understand it - that wasn't told to me today.)

Edited December 8, 2016 by moojar

[Grubster]

On 12/6/2016 at 5:13 PM, 4MyEgo said:

 

If born in Australia, they would be entitled to the full pension, if not, well.......

 

Australia has been throwing money away for years, I know of immigrants who have worked for less than 10 years paying minimal taxes and received pesnions, is that fair to the Australian community is it ?

Are the pensions there not based on what you pay in.