Rape of Aussie tourist in Bangkok: More details emerge as hunt for Thai rapists intensifies

[Usual Suspect]

If this sad report reaches out to other ladies travelling on their own thru' this nation, then I do hope they understand

 how dangerous this country is after dark for them.

 I myself are deeply saddened by this story, & it pains me to think what this poor lady has gone through...

..BUT it also pains me that even if, in a few days from now we see the Headlines saying "Rapists arrested".. I for one

here knows the term 'arrested' means nothing if the scumbags come from a Hi-So background or have a cousin who is a policeman, or works in the Amphu,r or Mayor's office etc.   TiT.

[OldBag]

18 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I don't fear that either my daughters or my son will end up in such disgusting circumstances because i have expended a lot of energy in their upbringing and i think successfully. They are well mannered and show empathy towards others, how they behave towards each other and towards the others friends is a good indication of how they are as people, having said that nobody can look into the future, i just hope that they wont disappoint me. 

so by your logic, everyone who's been raped or a victim of crime was not raised properly,  and didn't have loving, conscientious parents?  seriously, i hope you never have to go through that horror within your family.  i mean that.  but you still don't get it.  over and out.

[Moonmoon]

I like to think that i was raised up properly.

I've worked as a musician playing live music in bars n clubs for most of my younger days. Pretty much met most types. We get customers coming up to us buying us drinks. All in alll good times.

There was once a certain male customer came up to me, bought me a few drinks and we hit it off right away, well who wouldnt after a few. 

He invited me to another bar and cos i already finished my set for the night i tot why not? He told me his hotel was on the way to our next location n he had to go up to get something from his room and ask if it was ok for me to go up with him. Of cos i agreed. What would happen? I am a full grown man 1.78 metres tall and quite atheletic. 

Once we went into the room, he grab me and started kissing n groping me, i had to push him away and told him sorry i dont swing that way. He was shocked and thought that becos i went up with him I was "gay" (i have nothing against LGBT).

I just said nope n i open the door and ran.. I might be inexperienced then to have not known that man was gay or took a liking to me or maybe the drinks clouded my judgment.

But I am a Man and what did i do wrong except to behave like any other bloke who just wants to drink n have a good time to give that kind of wrong signals?

Well maybe i m lucky cos I am not that small of a guy that the person who assaulted me had to think twice again b4 he tried to force himself on me. 

If it was a girl who was drunk n said no? Or couldnt said no? 

[slapout]

The advice given to my generation on proper behavior was '' do not do anything that will /would cause embarsement to your grandmother''. This applied to both male and female members of the family.

Its too bad such a simple, easy to follow guideline is not acceptable / respected to that part of society that require locks, barriers, and police to protect other people and their property from them.

[soalbundy]

41 minutes ago, OldBag said:

so by your logic, everyone who's been raped or a victim of crime was not raised properly,  and didn't have loving, conscientious parents?  seriously, i hope you never have to go through that horror within your family.  i mean that.  but you still don't get it.  over and out.

No i don't mean that but it does reduce the chance. I am confident that  my daughters wouldn't act in the same disgusting manner that this Australian woman put on show. I did qualify my statement by saying that nobody can look into the future. Rape, like death, can come like a thief in the night. What is with all this aggressiveness today, time for some navel gazing. 

[optad]

31 minutes ago, Moonmoon said:

I like to think that i was raised up properly.

I've worked as a musician playing live music in bars n clubs for most of my younger days. Pretty much met most types. We get customers coming up to us buying us drinks. All in alll good times.

There was once a certain male customer came up to me, bought me a few drinks and we hit it off right away, well who wouldnt after a few. 

He invited me to another bar and cos i already finished my set for the night i tot why not? He told me his hotel was on the way to our next location n he had to go up to get something from his room and ask if it was ok for me to go up with him. Of cos i agreed. What would happen? I am a full grown man 1.78 metres tall and quite atheletic. 

Once we went into the room, he grab me and started kissing n groping me, i had to push him away and told him sorry i dont swing that way. He was shocked and thought that becos i went up with him I was "gay" (i have nothing against LGBT).

I just said nope n i open the door and ran.. I might be inexperienced then to have not known that man was gay or took a liking to me or maybe the drinks clouded my judgment.

But I am a Man and what did i do wrong except to behave like any other bloke who just wants to drink n have a good time to give that kind of wrong signals?

Well maybe i m lucky cos I am not that small of a guy that the person who assaulted me had to think twice again b4 he tried to force himself on me. 

If it was a girl who was drunk n said no? Or couldnt said no? 

You realise that posters on TV just do not care about the digress in the story. 

 

TV posters want to believe in the headline, or alternatively disagree vehemently with the headline but not find nuance nor other mitigating factors. Spoils the effect. These guys came to thailand for a reason. 

[Moonmoon]

1 minute ago, optad said:

You realise that posters on TV just do not care about the digress in the story. 

 

TV posters want to believe in the headline, or alternatively disagree vehemently with the headline but not find nuance nor other mitigating factors. Spoils the effect. These guys came to thailand for a reason. 

No one is interested  in my life stories? I was thinking of writing a biography, a book.. no? 

[optad]

4 minutes ago, Moonmoon said:

No one is interested  in my life stories? I was thinking of writing a biography, a book.. no? 

Well, I will read your book if it helps.

 

But it is not the  way to make a point here. Half these guys deny the girl was raped and the other half want a definition of 'rape'  before they decide.

 

[Moonmoon]

2 minutes ago, optad said:

Well, I will read your book if it helps.

 

But it is not the  way to make a point here. Half these guys deny the girl was raped and the other half want a definition of 'rape'  before they decide.

 

Yup thats why i said its a sensitive issue and let the people with professional help handle it. Unless u experienced something similar, if not then its really hard to relate or decide.

[optad]

6 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

She had way more than a few by the look of her condition in the video and now according to some Thai news reports there are inconsistencies with her statement of events of what took place on that night. They are saying that CCT video and images shows her to be in a different location at the time she alleged to have been raped.

By way of a reply, referring to anecdotes and the 'new appraisals' as you did, is disappointing given what is possibly at stake.

 

I suspect you are more integral in person, cf.

 

In both posts, how can you know what you conjecture?/

[sweatalot]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

No, because I do check stats and facts and they come up with a very different version of what is happening.

 

 

I did some resear ch for you. 

 

There are a lot of different statistics about this subject in the internet. 
they are difficult to compare. The criterion is only if the woman recants the allegation which they normally not do to avoid prosecution. 

It is difficult to assess the prevalence of false accusations because more than 40 % are often conflated with non-prosecuted cases under the designation "unfounded.

This means in 40% of the cases  there was no evidence found for the truth of the allegation. But as usual the police did not investigate against the woman  for false accusation

Some statistics about false accusations regarding rape:
(Wikipedia)

Chambers and Millar (1983)    44 out of 196    22.4%
Grace et al. (1992)    80 out of 335    24%
Jordan (2004)    68 out of 164
62 out of 164    41% ("false" claims)
38% (viewed by police as "possibly true/possibly false")
Kanin (1994)    45 out of 109    41%
Gregory and Lees (1996)    49 out of 109    45%
Maclean (1979)    16 out of 34    47%
Stewart (1981)    16 out of 18    90%

Excerpt from
http://origin-www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-19/how-many-rape-reports-are-false

(feminists still claim there is only a quote of 2 % of wrong accusations)

Here's what we do know: The 2 percent number is very bad and should never be cited. It apparently traces its lineage back to Susan Brownmiller's legendary "Against Our Will," and her citation for this figure is a single speech by an appellate judge before a small group of lawyers. His source for this statistic was a single area of New York that started having policewomen conduct all rape interviews. This is not data. It is an anecdote about an anecdote.

The 41 percent number beloved of men's-rights activists is better; it involves a peer-reviewed study by Eugene Kanin of a police department in some unknown small city. 

False reports were only counted  as such if the alleged victim herself withdrew the charge which  she avoided of course so no prosecution against he would be started. (So if she did not withdraw the allegation - it was not counted as false, it was just "forgotten")

some links - worth reading

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11912748/Guilty-until-proven-innocent-life-after-a-false-rape-accusation.html

http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/12/13-women-who-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/
 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, sweatalot said:

 

I did some resear ch for you. 

 

There are a lot of different statistics about this subject in the internet. 
they are difficult to compare. The criterion is only if the woman recants the allegation which they normally not do to avoid prosecution. 

It is difficult to assess the prevalence of false accusations because more than 40 % are often conflated with non-prosecuted cases under the designation "unfounded.

This means in 40% of the cases  there was no evidence found for the truth of the allegation. But as usual the police did not investigate against the woman  for false accusation

Some statistics about false accusations regarding rape:
(Wikipedia)

Chambers and Millar (1983)    44 out of 196    22.4%
Grace et al. (1992)    80 out of 335    24%
Jordan (2004)    68 out of 164
62 out of 164    41% ("false" claims)
38% (viewed by police as "possibly true/possibly false")
Kanin (1994)    45 out of 109    41%
Gregory and Lees (1996)    49 out of 109    45%
Maclean (1979)    16 out of 34    47%
Stewart (1981)    16 out of 18    90%

Excerpt from
http://origin-www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-19/how-many-rape-reports-are-false

(feminists still claim there is only a quote of 2 % of wrong accusations)

Here's what we do know: The 2 percent number is very bad and should never be cited. It apparently traces its lineage back to Susan Brownmiller's legendary "Against Our Will," and her citation for this figure is a single speech by an appellate judge before a small group of lawyers. His source for this statistic was a single area of New York that started having policewomen conduct all rape interviews. This is not data. It is an anecdote about an anecdote.

The 41 percent number beloved of men's-rights activists is better; it involves a peer-reviewed study by Eugene Kanin of a police department in some unknown small city. 

False reports were only counted  as such if the alleged victim herself withdrew the charge which  she avoided of course so no prosecution against he would be started. (So if she did not withdraw the allegation - it was not counted as false, it was just "forgotten")

some links - worth reading

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11912748/Guilty-until-proven-innocent-life-after-a-false-rape-accusation.html

http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/12/13-women-who-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/
 

 I can do my own research.

 

And have.

 

They support my view that the vast number of rapes reported are genuine.

 

However lets not forget the even greater number not reported or investigated, especially in war/conflict zones.

 

The number of rapes occurring world wide is nothing to do with so called ''feminist agendas''.

 

They are reality.

 

 

[sweatalot]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

 I can do my own research.

 

And have.

 

They support my view that the vast number of rapes reported are genuine.

 

However lets not forget the even greater number not reported or investigated, especially in war/conflict zones.

 

The number of rapes occurring world wide is nothing to do with so called ''feminist agendas''.

 

They are reality.

 

 

So what's the source and the result of your research?

 

 

Btw did you know that you can do research to learn the facts - or to prove that you are right - regardless of the facts?

Edited December 11, 2016 by sweatalot

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

So what's the source and the result of your research?

Read what the UN, WHO, Rape Crisis UK and number of other reputable sources say on rape.

[sweatalot]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Read what the UN, WHO, Rape Crisis UK and number of other reputable sources say on rape.

 

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Read what the UN, WHO, Rape Crisis UK and number of other reputable sources say on rape.

And what do they say? Are they trustworthy? And whose lobby are they?

 

But anyway if there are 50 % or 10 % or only 1 % of false rape accusations. They  destroy lives. And it is the duty of the law to investigate every case carefully to find out the truth - and not simply believe one side by  using the "victim bonus" of the women. 

 

How would you feel if the police appears in your house at night to arrest you because you said something that a certain woman did not want to hear?

And then you stay in prison for years?

 

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by sweatalot

[Bluespunk]

13 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

 

And what do they say? Are they trustworthy? And whose lobby are they?

 

But anyway if there are 50 % or 10 % or only 1 % of false rape accusations. They  destroy lives. And it is the duty of the law to investigate every case carefully to find out the truth - and not simply believe one side by  using the "victim bonus" of the women. 

 

How would you feel if the police appears in your house at night to arrest you because you said something that a certain woman did not want to hear?

And then you stay in prison for years?

 

 

I never said there were no false claims nor did I try to defend those who make them.

 

I just believe the vast majority of claims are genuine.

 

And as for the groups I trust, yes they are reliable as far as I am concerned.

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I don't fear that either my daughters or my son will end up in such disgusting circumstances because i have expended a lot of energy in their upbringing and i think successfully. They are well mannered and show empathy towards others, how they behave towards each other and towards the others friends is a good indication of how they are as people, having said that nobody can look into the future, i just hope that they wont disappoint me. 

 

You do know that ordinary everyday housewifes etc, also get raped, now and then, don't you?

 

its not just something that happens to drunk girls

 

forgive me if I'm assuming that the "disgusting" part is a direct reference to inebriation., vs rape (which is the disgusting part IMHO).. in which case, congratulations on teaching your daughters not to get drunk and raped.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, farcanell said:

 

You do know that ordinary everyday housewifes etc, also get raped, now and then, don't you?

 

its not just something that happens to drunk girls

 

forgive me if I'm assuming that the "disgusting" part is a direct reference to inebriation., vs rape (which is the disgusting part IMHO).. in which case, congratulations on teaching your daughters not to get drunk and raped.

My reference to disgusting referred to rape. Yes i realize rape and all sorts of other acts of violence happen all the time, not just in connection with alcohol although alcohol plays a big part. I didn't teach my daughters not to get raped specifically, i encouraged them to be young ladies instead of just young women. The Australian woman,wandering around drunk at 3 am was no lady. It wouldn't occur to my daughters to wander around in the early hours of the morning alone, let alone drunk as a lord. 

[Scott]

Let's stay on topic and take care in the manner in which we post.    It's not acceptable to blame the victim, but we can acknowledge circumstances that could have avoided a situation that become troublesome.  

 

There are a lot of factors that occur and we don't always know all of them.

 

Please keep it civil.  

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

No i don't mean that but it does reduce the chance. I am confident that  my daughters wouldn't act in the same disgusting manner that this Australian woman put on show. I did qualify my statement by saying that nobody can look into the future. Rape, like death, can come like a thief in the night. What is with all this aggressiveness today, time for some navel gazing. 

 

Lol... Mines an innee... gotta extract the fluff for contemplation purposes.

[Scott]

Post reported and removed.  

[NextStationBangkok]

On 12/10/2016 at 8:56 AM, OldBag said:

No matter how often women are told to stay sober, to stay away from strange men, to buddy up, to dress conservatively, women are raped. Even when women say “no,” women are raped. They are raped when they don’t say “no” too.

There are ways that rape can be prevented, though and they have absolutely nothing to do with a woman’s dress or her behavior. The only people who can prevent rape are men. A meme that’s going viral across social media shows a list of “Ten Rape Prevention Tips” that are sure to stop rape dead in its tracks. If every single man followed these tips, there would be no more rape.

1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.

2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.

3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to rape her.

4. If you are in an elevator and a women gets in, don’t rape her.

5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is to not rape her.

6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars, or rape her.

7. Remember, people go to the laundry room to do their laundry. Do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.

8. Use the Buddy System! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from raping women, ask a trusted friend to accompany you at all times.

9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find that you are about to rape someone, blow the whistle until someone comes to stop you.

10. Dont forget: Honesty is the best policy. When asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend that you are interested in her as a person; tell her straight up that you expect to be raping her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take it as a sign that you do not plan to rape her.

 

 

You have a big task of translating this in Thai correctly , and handout to all Tuk-Tuk drivers, they will laugh at you thinking, few screws and bolts are lose to be deported. They will just blame the buckets sold in Kaosan, and they will also blame 7-11's for opening 24 hours.

[seahorse]

On 11/12/2016 at 3:39 PM, OldBag said:

This is not an attempt at humour; it's an attempt to put it in a way that maybe men get it.  And so they stop blaming the victim.

NOBODY here has blamed the victim. Stop saying that they have.

[seahorse]

On 11/12/2016 at 3:39 PM, OldBag said:

This is not an attempt at humour; it's an attempt to put it in a way that maybe men get it.  And so they stop blaming the victim.

You what? I don't think anybody "got" your post.

I haven't seen anyone blaming the victim. Perhaps you could quote that (those) post(s). Otherwise shut up.

[BangkokHank]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:12 AM, Thaiwrath said:

 

The only thing they can prove is that whether intercourse took place, how can they prove rape ?

Maybe pissed, consented, then changed her mind.

It would not be the first alleged rape case in the world. 

 

Of course what this woman did was very foolhardy - even reckless.  Nonetheless, if a woman is drunk, and especially as drunk as this woman appears to have been, then she is in no condition to consent to having sex.  And even if she were, why would she consent to having sex with a random tuk tuk driver (whom she had engaged simply to take her to her hotel) - and his friend - of all the people she must have met that evening?  To me, it looks pretty obvious that the tuk tuk driver opportunistically took advantage of this woman in her drunken state.  For that, he and his friend deserve to be punished.  Severely.

[farcanell]

On 12/10/2016 at 11:54 AM, Vermor said:

3 hours ago, seahorse said:

You what? I don't think anybody "got" your post.

I haven't seen anyone blaming the victim. Perhaps you could quote that (those) post(s). Otherwise shut up.

 

As you see on the comments, this is the fault of the girl because she get drunk... That's what I mean...

 

I dont know about your claims seahorse... here is a direct "blame the victim" post for you, as requested

 

but... other posts are more circumspect and " suggest" that she is to blame... or "partially" to blame.

 

as you requested... I came up with a quote.... I'll leave it up to you to troll through the thread to check that ( suggestion of blame)  assertion.... there are numerous... as you will discover, if you care to look.

[Scott]

Please keep the discussion civil.  

[seahorse]

4 hours ago, farcanell said:

 

I dont know about your claims seahorse... here is a direct "blame the victim" post for you, as requested

 

but... other posts are more circumspect and " suggest" that she is to blame... or "partially" to blame.

 

as you requested... I came up with a quote.... I'll leave it up to you to troll through the thread to check that ( suggestion of blame)  assertion.... there are numerous... as you will discover, if you care to look.

That quote is from someone asserting that other people say it was her fault. I have seen nobody claiming it was her fault for getting raped. Maybe posts have been deleted that I have not seen. However it is her fault that she put herself in a position where she could be taken advantage of - and I'm not talking about rape only. That is not "victim blaming".

This is a forum for expats and tourists in Thailand. That's what we're discussing here. How to avoid any kind of trouble.

There are some people on this planet who do despicable things. They don't care about other people or the effect of their actions on them. They will not listen to "advice" or care about criticism. There are men who will rape given the opportunity, especially around Khao San Road. Don't give them the opportunity. Take care of yourself.

[sheldoncollier]

On 10/12/2016 at 3:35 AM, Vermor said:

Of course it is safe. At least safer than Europe....
But what is in the news are the dirtiest story....not every day life... sure not!

That's why people get racist...without news like this, they would love each other...maybe :)

I don't think it's safer than Europe, where I currently live. I've lived in many countries, and in the Bronx, and the only place I've heard and seen gunshots is Thailand. My own weddings was cut short because of fights, people throwing tables, and the in-laws were fearing a gunfight.

[Vermor]

3 hours ago, sheldoncollier said:

I don't think it's safer than Europe, where I currently live. I've lived in many countries, and in the Bronx, and the only place I've heard and seen gunshots is Thailand. My own weddings was cut short because of fights, people throwing tables, and the in-laws were fearing a gunfight.

 I agree that I could be wrong on that one.