Uk Pension

[topt]

15 hours ago, Arkady said:

probably on the basis that most of their pension income is taxable in their home countries and therefore protected by double tax treaties.

worth noting that this is not the case with the UK unless a Government service pension -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties

and I found this -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/10878348/Ask-the-Experts-How-do-I-get-the-taxmans-hands-off-my-pensions.html

Quote

This basic rule can be overridden by a suitable provision in a double taxation agreement (DTA). Although the UK has ratified a treaty with Thailand, it does not cover pension income. Therefore the DTA is of no help.

 

[rockingrobin]

25 minutes ago, topt said:

worth noting that this is not the case with the UK unless a Government service pension -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties

and I found this -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/10878348/Ask-the-Experts-How-do-I-get-the-taxmans-hands-off-my-pensions.html

 

I think but would have to confirm. The UK/Thai DTT was concluded when the standard model for double taxation did not have a separate article provision for pensions. Pensions were considered as belonging to either dependent or independent services. Thus as such would fall into one of those categories.

Pensions have evolved over the years that a simple categorization is not possible

 

[Arkady]

39 minutes ago, topt said:

worth noting that this is not the case with the UK unless a Government service pension -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties

and I found this -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/10878348/Ask-the-Experts-How-do-I-get-the-taxmans-hands-off-my-pensions.html

 

 

Interesting.  So it cannot be ruled out that the Revenue Department under increasing pressure to raise revenue due to the permanently underperforming, mismanaged Thai economy could one day decide to go after the legions of foreign OAPs.  A stipulation for a tax clearance certificate to renew visas like the ones we used have to get to leave the country would do the trick. I think though that governments are reluctant to change the part of the Revenue Code that exempts foreign income arising in prior tax years because it would be very inconvenient for wealthy Thais, including politicians, military and police who are lucky enough to have sizeable offshore income.  Long may that be the case. They might raise only peanuts from the OAPs but upset some big and well connected apple carts.  On the other hand developed countries like the UK have no qualms about taxing pensions of local and foreign residents.

[topt]

Just now, Arkady said:

So it cannot be ruled out that the Revenue Department could one day decide to go after the legions of foreign OAPs

Yes it is always potentially there but hopefully some way off for the reasons you give and others.

 

1 minute ago, Arkady said:

Long may that be the case.

I agree wholeheartedly

[topt]

11 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

I think but would have to confirm. The UK/Thai DTT was concluded when the standard model for double taxation did not have a separate article provision for pensions. Pensions were considered as belonging to either dependent or independent services. Thus as such would fall into one of those categories.

Pensions have evolved over the years that a simple categorization is not possible

 

See here, which may be more relevant, which is what I was trying to find originally as this came up in the forums a while ago - and this was updated in 2013 - Thailand is on page 46 of the attached pdf.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/double-taxation-treaties-territory-residents-with-uk-income

[Arkady]

33 minutes ago, topt said:

See here, which may be more relevant, which is what I was trying to find originally as this came up in the forums a while ago - and this was updated in 2013 - Thailand is on page 46 of the attached pdf.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/double-taxation-treaties-territory-residents-with-uk-income

 

Thanks for that. So UK state pensions are fully exempt by the DTT but private pensions, including lump sums, are fully taxable in Thailand (if remitted to Thailand in the same tax year they arise), even though they may have already been taxed in the UK. So if you get your private pension sent to Thailand direct, you should theoretically declare it for Thai tax , if it puts you over B150,000 a year including lump sums.  It seems safer to have it sent to a bank in the UK and remit it yourself.     

[topt]

5 minutes ago, Arkady said:

So UK state pensions are fully exempt

No it is confusing but the Government pension is not the State Pension.

Note 4 on the Thai section.

Quote

Treaty does not include an article dealing with Non-Government pensions. Also, no relief for State Pension or ‘trivial commutation lump sum’.

By Government pension I believe they are referring to pensions paid out by the government - civil servants, maybe forces etc

Edited January 19, 2018 by topt

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, topt said:

No it is confusing but the Government pension is not the State Pension.

Note 4 on the Thai section.

By Government pension I believe they are referring to pensions paid out by the government - civil servants, maybe forces etc

 

Thanks.  That would make things even hairier, particularly if they ever move to global taxation in the Western sense.