Already Been To Cambodia ?

[midas]

Yesterday afternoon I crossed the Thai / Cambodia border at Hat Lek.

I witnessed a large number of very disgruntled European tourists

as they argued fiercely with various Cambodians who were demanding

outrageous amounts for bringing them a short distance byroad from Koh Kong

to the immigration checkpoint. It's not good to see so many tourists

being harassed in that way ............

Last month I was at Phnom Penh airport where waiting in the departure lounge

I overheard four American tourists who complained at the visa charges and the high departure

tax imposed on departing passengers. Their overall assessment of Cambodia

they said was " disappointing " partly because of this constant feeling of being

overcharged everywhere you go.

I have now discovered on this recent trip there is a 3 tier pricing system

in Cambodia rather than 2.

i.e. 1. prices only for Cambodians

2. prices for foreigners accompanied by a Cambodian ( who should do all the talking

when the foreigner is buying something )

3. prices exclusively for foreigners which are sometimes quite exorbitant and unjustified!

I would have thought that any potentially promising tourist destination needs to

rely on a certain percentage of return visitors whereas I got the distinct feeling on this recent trip

that a large number tourists may not return to Cambodia for subsequent visits ?

Has anyone who has been there recently experienced this sort of thing

and would it affect your decision to return for subsequent visits?

[ashacat]

This is a real shame to read. When I last properly travelled Cambodia (some 7 or 8 years ago) I was amazed by the friendliness and honesty of the people I met many of whom were quite clearly were living in pretty harsh conditions. I sensed a real sense of national pride and welcoming and did not encounter any scams or blatant double or even triple pricing.

I suppose once it is realised how easy it is to milk tourists for an exra buck or 2 it just becomes past of the systems mindset to do so...

Edited December 6, 2006 by ashacat

[totlanh]

This is a real shame to read. When I last properly travelled Cambodia (some 7 or 8 years ago) I was amazed by the friendliness and honesty of the people I met many of whom were quite clearly were living in pretty harsh conditions. I sensed a real sense of national pride and welcoming and did not encounter any scams or blatant double or even triple pricing.

I suppose once it is realised how easy it is to milk tourists for an exra buck or 2 it just becomes past of the systems mindset to do so...

Yep, i agree,i found the Cambodiam people awe aspiring given thier collective history

[zink]

Last month I was at Phnom Penh airport where waiting in the departure lounge

I overheard four American tourists who complained at the visa charges and the high departure

tax imposed on departing passengers. Their overall assessment of Cambodia

they said was " disappointing " partly because of this constant feeling of being

overcharged everywhere you go.

To put things in perspective, departure tax at Phnom Penh is $25 (which is less than 900B). That's not much higher than departure tax at Bangkok since next February (700B). If I remember correctly, visa should cost $20, this isn't so expensive compared to visa costs to other countries.

[Florin]

I was there a couple of months ago and would definitely go back...the people were nice, the food was also very good and the sights also well worth it. They're working hard to develop their country and I think in 10 years it's going to be a very welcoming place to tourists from all over the world.

As for the tiered pricing, I don't know, I don't travel to shop and I don't think paying a couple of bucks extra for a souvenir is going to make you poor or the seller rich...the only thing which is somewhat annoying is the beggar/hawker issue around places like Angkor Wat, but even there it's not so bad if you just ignore them...

In terms of hotel prices, I think Phnom Penh is quite OK with the price/quality ratio, but Angkor doesn't offer too good value...but then again, one could always just go there for a day

[midas]

Last month I was at Phnom Penh airport where waiting in the departure lounge

I overheard four American tourists who complained at the visa charges and the high departure

tax imposed on departing passengers. Their overall assessment of Cambodia

they said was " disappointing " partly because of this constant feeling of being

overcharged everywhere you go.

To put things in perspective, departure tax at Phnom Penh is $25 (which is less than 900B). That's not much higher than departure tax at Bangkok since next February (700B). If I remember correctly, visa should cost $20, this isn't so expensive compared to visa costs to other countries.

Well Zink, as for visa costs for Cambodia - this is an interesting topic in itself

I really don't understand what's happening - I'm only a relatively short walking distance

from the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok so I prefer to get the Visa in advance

rather than on arrival. Last month I only went for a week so I got tourist visa

at the Bangkok Embassy where I was charged 1200 THB. I understood there is a

premium payable on top of this if you arrive in Cambodia and apply upon arrival so I have no idea

what they are charging tourists now ? But even 1200 is a good ' mark up ' on the price which is generally quoted. On this recent visit just in case I needed to extend

the Visa I obtained a business Visa for which I was charged 1600 THB ( even though

on the visa itself it shows $25 US which is the amount being quoted in various sources )

I was given a receipt from the Embassy which showed the amount of 1600 THB

but I never got the opportunity to ask at the Embassy why I was being asked to pay so much more ? Perhaps this gives you an insight into this " creep " in prices which seems to be happening everywhere you go including when you negotiate with moto taxi drivers !

[leisurely]

No would never return, we were there last year and I found the Cambdodian people to be amongst the most miserable in the world. I know that they have had a foul history, but as a developing tourist market they could make more effort in my opinion.

[Florin]

Well Zink, as for visa costs for Cambodia - this is an interesting topic in itself

I really don't understand what's happening - I'm only a relatively short walking distance

from the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok so I prefer to get the Visa in advance

rather than on arrival. Last month I only went for a week so I got tourist visa

at the Bangkok Embassy where I was charged 1200 THB.

Hmm...in the beginning of October I got a visa from them for 1000 Baht + 100 Baht for same-day processing. If you want to pay precisely 25 USD, you could always get the electronic one online

It's still a lot cheaper than places like Russia or New Zealand...Russia, especially, with their mandatory "tourist voucher" system is a much more blatant (and EXPENSIVE) ripoff.

[midas]

I was there a couple of months ago and would definitely go back...the people were nice, the food was also very good and the sights also well worth it. They're working hard to develop their country and I think in 10 years it's going to be a very welcoming place to tourists from all over the world.

As for the tiered pricing, I don't know, I don't travel to shop and I don't think paying a couple of bucks extra for a souvenir is going to make you poor or the seller rich...the only thing which is somewhat annoying is the beggar/hawker issue around places like Angkor Wat, but even there it's not so bad if you just ignore them...

In terms of hotel prices, I think Phnom Penh is quite OK with the price/quality ratio, but Angkor doesn't offer too good value...but then again, one could always just go there for a day

Florin, that is encouraging. Yes the people are nice and I admire the way so many young people seem willing to try learn English. Wth regards to pricing I wasn't actually referring to

souvenir shopping, I had in mind business situations where you could be negotiating

to buy goods or services from the locals possibly involving large amounts of money - so what you pay could make a big difference. Or for example to rent property.

I agree that at the moment some hotels in Phnom Penh still offer value for money.

[bendix]

Love the place and would definitely consider staying there if I ever found myself persona non-grata in Thailand.

[ashacat]

Love the place and would definitely consider staying there if I ever found myself persona non-grata in Thailand.

Based on my previous experience I would agree.

[midas]

Yes I like Cambodia also Was anyone concerned at all about some of the crime horror stories you hear about ?

[Florin]

I didn't feel fearful while there, but I think PP could definitely do with some proper public lighting outside of the 2-3 main boulevards But the point is that it's very visible that they're working on improving things, so I think a lot of these issues will get ironed out...

I don't know about business transactions over there, but I think they're still in the process of setting up a more efficient legal system & such...I mean, hel_l, the country has only really been on the right track since '92/'93, they need a bit more time to get everything in order.

[Nikkijah]

Love the place and would definitely consider staying there if I ever found myself persona non-grata in Thailand.

Totally agree!

I might be in that position in January when I travel to Singapore to get a new NON-O visa, if I get it then I'm staying in Thailand with my family, if I don't get it I'm going to consider sharing my time between Phnom Penh and Bangkok, I love PP, it's got lots of nice restaurants & bars, some lovely hotels but more importantly you can rent a nice sized house with walls and security guards for about the same price as a normal sized 'condo' (or bedsit to us Brits, in Bangkok)...

[Jonson83]

Cambodia is an awesome place.I stayed their for a month earlier this year.The Khymers attitude is similar to that of the thais,just not quite as friendly.But they are certainly not miserable.

You should ignore moaning tourists,tourists always have to moan about something.As far as being ripped off goes.No country in SEA comes close to Vietnam.But really its the same in all of these countries,including Thailand.Just a way of making an extra buck,i got no problem with it.As i said,only the Vietnamese really take the piss...but id still got back their if i had the chance.

Anyway,on a whole.Cambodia is a lot safer than its made out to be,So many things to see,places to go in PP,Siam Reap(Angkor) is a must.Sinoukville ,beaches.Trekking in the northeast etc

The only thing id say cambodia is lacking.Is ,well places to go! Its a small country and if your their for more than couple of weeks you might run out of things to do!

[TBWG]

Hmm...in the beginning of October I got a visa from them for 1000 Baht + 100 Baht for same-day processing. If you want to pay precisely 25 USD, you could always get the electronic one online

Hi help please

Cant seem to find website for applying online forCambodia tourist visa.

Any clues

TBWG

[Florin]

http://evisa.mfaic.gov.kh/

Thanks goes to the highly informative TalesOfAsia site

[bmanly]

I have been to Cambodia 3 times, once in 2002, once in 2005 and once this year. The last 2 times I paid 1,000 baht for a visa at the Had Lek Border and that is not that expensive. After that we got in a car with the Ramsay Bhuntan boys who run a guest house in Koh kong. They took us there for about 200 baht. When we got there we paid 200 baht a night for a room.

We stayed a couple of nights, hired a motorbike each for 200 baht a day and rode out to the waterfalls. It was hassle free and great fun. After that took the road service to Sihanoukville which was very cheap and stayed there in a beautiful clean hotel room for $8 USD a night. The beaches there were clean and the town was fun. After that we went onwards to Phnom Penh by road, again a hassel free trip.

Phnom Penh is a beautiful city, over there we paid $15 USD a night for a nice air con room in a French Style Hotel. Again everything was cheap, if fact my mate and I commented how much more cheaper it was than Thailand. On average a beer was $1 USD a can, cheap again.

As for the people they are the most friendliest you can ever find. Sure there were beggars about but please understand this Country has had a terrible history. Nearly every person has been touched by the murderous regime of Pol Pot in some way or another.

I would definitely go back again and will do so next year too. Never experienced any resentment or crime there either on any of my visits. All in all I find it a cheaper place than Thailand too, safe and friendly. I do not hesitate to spend more there just to help out the locals, they need it and need us too, so to answer your question, yes 100% I'll be back.

[midas]

The only thing id say cambodia is lacking.Is ,well places to go! Its a small country and if your their for more than couple of weeks you might run out of things to do!

there would be even more places to go it wasn't for those damned landmines which are particularly heavily concentrated in the Batambong area, all along that Thai border in the North and

along the border with Vietnam. Its tragic - so much land they could cultivate if it was safe

but its not

[Jonson83]

Yup,its a real shame.

100s still dying every year.

[fxm88]

One nice thing about Cambodia is that the police or other government agents usually don't come around hassling anyone. In many ways, it is a true libertarian's paradise.

[mittheimp]

Went in 1999, spent 4 weeks there. Would love to go back. A great (although tragic) country.

[midas]

One nice thing about Cambodia is that the police or other government agents usually don't come around hassling anyone. In many ways, it is a true libertarian's paradise.

But fxm, I think it would be " optimistic " to think that situation will last indefinitely

There's also a potentially negative side from a too laissez-faire attitude by the government ?

For example in Sihanoukville the Russians with dirty money have gone in there already in a big way -having paid $300 million for Snake Island

[zink]

Well Zink, as for visa costs for Cambodia - this is an interesting topic in itself

I really don't understand what's happening - I'm only a relatively short walking distance

from the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok so I prefer to get the Visa in advance

rather than on arrival. Last month I only went for a week so I got tourist visa

at the Bangkok Embassy where I was charged 1200 THB.

Hmm...in the beginning of October I got a visa from them for 1000 Baht + 100 Baht for same-day processing. If you want to pay precisely 25 USD, you could always get the electronic one online

It's still a lot cheaper than places like Russia or New Zealand...Russia, especially, with their mandatory "tourist voucher" system is a much more blatant (and EXPENSIVE) ripoff.

What do you mean? One year, multi-entry tourist visa to Russia costs about 100 euros for EU citizens and the price is supposed to decrease from the next year. Thus, one year visa to Russia may actually be even cheaper than one year, multi-entry visa to Thailand. I don't know what do you mean by "tourist voucher system".

About Cambodia visas: I remember reading that the price for the visa on border is $20, even if some official will try to ask more (like 1000B), real price is still $20.

[Florin]

Well Zink, as for visa costs for Cambodia - this is an interesting topic in itself

I really don't understand what's happening - I'm only a relatively short walking distance

from the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok so I prefer to get the Visa in advance

rather than on arrival. Last month I only went for a week so I got tourist visa

at the Bangkok Embassy where I was charged 1200 THB.

Hmm...in the beginning of October I got a visa from them for 1000 Baht + 100 Baht for same-day processing. If you want to pay precisely 25 USD, you could always get the electronic one online

It's still a lot cheaper than places like Russia or New Zealand...Russia, especially, with their mandatory "tourist voucher" system is a much more blatant (and EXPENSIVE) ripoff.

What do you mean? One year, multi-entry tourist visa to Russia costs about 100 euros for EU citizens and the price is supposed to decrease from the next year. Thus, one year visa to Russia may actually be even cheaper than one year, multi-entry visa to Thailand. I don't know what do you mean by "tourist voucher system".

If you don't know about the tourist vouchers it means you must have used a guided tour or an expensive hotel (and even they charge separately for it usually)...I actually wanted to do independent travel in Russia, which is impossible without a tourist voucher. It's basically an official invitation that everyone needs when getting the visa...if you stay at a nice hotel, they can fax it to you (for a usually annoyingly significant fee), or it can be arranged by the travel agent and included in your tour price. Either way, it's an official tax paid for precisely NOTHING.

[zink]

What do you mean? One year, multi-entry tourist visa to Russia costs about 100 euros for EU citizens and the price is supposed to decrease from the next year. Thus, one year visa to Russia may actually be even cheaper than one year, multi-entry visa to Thailand. I don't know what do you mean by "tourist voucher system".

If you don't know about the tourist vouchers it means you must have used a guided tour or an expensive hotel (and even they charge separately for it usually)...I actually wanted to do independent travel in Russia, which is impossible without a tourist voucher. It's basically an official invitation that everyone needs when getting the visa...if you stay at a nice hotel, they can fax it to you (for a usually annoyingly significant fee), or it can be arranged by the travel agent and included in your tour price. Either way, it's an official tax paid for precisely NOTHING.

Or you can use some agency that will arrange visa for you (they will take care for "invitation"). If you want to get a tourist visa to Russia, don't go directly to embassy.

[Florin]

What do you mean? One year, multi-entry tourist visa to Russia costs about 100 euros for EU citizens and the price is supposed to decrease from the next year. Thus, one year visa to Russia may actually be even cheaper than one year, multi-entry visa to Thailand. I don't know what do you mean by "tourist voucher system".

If you don't know about the tourist vouchers it means you must have used a guided tour or an expensive hotel (and even they charge separately for it usually)...I actually wanted to do independent travel in Russia, which is impossible without a tourist voucher. It's basically an official invitation that everyone needs when getting the visa...if you stay at a nice hotel, they can fax it to you (for a usually annoyingly significant fee), or it can be arranged by the travel agent and included in your tour price. Either way, it's an official tax paid for precisely NOTHING.

Or you can use some agency that will arrange visa for you (they will take care for "invitation"). If you want to get a tourist visa to Russia, don't go directly to embassy.

Of course an agency will mean less Soviet-era hags looking down on you from their counter, but the costs are still there, I'm sure that if you'd see a breakdown there would be a charged fee for the invitation.

[zink]

Or you can use some agency that will arrange visa for you (they will take care for "invitation"). If you want to get a tourist visa to Russia, don't go directly to embassy.

Of course an agency will mean less Soviet-era hags looking down on you from their counter, but the costs are still there, I'm sure that if you'd see a breakdown there would be a charged fee for the invitation.

My point was that the cost of Russian visa is quite reasonable using an agency (for one year multiple-entry visa, the cost is comparable with the cost of Thailand one year visa).

[Gaudente]

Just been to Phnom Pehn to evaluate if it is a viable retirement alternative to Pattaya (should I be denied the tourist VISA at Penang next month). Was disappointed. Walls stink of piss from 2 meters of distance. Garbage piles on sidewalks or even in the middle of streets. Hoardes of mototaxis harassing you each time you exit your hotel , a shopping mall or an entertainment place. Shopping malls 20-30% more expensive then in Thailand being most goods imported from there. Even more restrictive laws on foreign property (you cannot buy even condos !).Extremely dark roads after sunset. Sidewalks occupied by parked cars or garbage piles so you have to walk on the road exposed to car traffic in darkness.

Farang food generally more expensive then in Thailand except for baguette sold at 500 riels each on the streets. Food court at Sorya providing so and so local food for 5,000riels a meal (prefer Carrefour food court here , 30 baht for more tasty food).

<snip>

Edited January 24, 2007 by Jai Dee
Drop links to external forums and sexual references deleted

[Gary A]

I haven't been to Phnom Penh for about three years. But, I used to go there on visa runs. I find the city depressing and squalid and always felt very uncomfortable on the streets. One reason I was uncomfortable was that I was carrying too much money. Not a HUGE amount but because there are no ATM machines, more than I would normally carry. I found the people friendly enough and didn't mind the food at all but to live there would not suit me at all. It was irritating to leave the hotel and have about ten bike and taxi drivers trying to get my business. I did find a guy who had a car and he took me wherever I wanted to go for a reasonable price. I trusted him and he in turn looked after me. The other drivers knew I had a regular driver and they ignored me after that.

EDIT - I always stayed at the Paris Hotel. They found an honest driver for me and after that I would email the Paris Hotel and the driver would be waiting for me at the airport to take me there and anywhere else I wanted to go after that.

Edited January 21, 2007 by Gary A