Philippines’ Duterte boasts he personally killed crime suspects

[JemJem]

It is a shame that horrible, hate-filled people like this guy and Erdogan have a big say in shaping up their countries and regions.

 

This Duterte guy should be impeached. As far as I know, so far, only one brave senator over there has spoken out in favor of an impeachment process.

[happy Joe]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion, or are you simply taking an opportunity to dismiss the beliefs of those with whom you disagree in general?

 

Yes.

 

I lived in the Philippines for one year just before settling in Thailand. And the least bad place where I stay was Davao City.

In this country everywhere, authorities had renounced a decent order, except in Davao where Mayor Dutertre was not afraid to face Mafia.

If the Filipinos chose him as leader with an overwhelming majority this is not without reason. And to my mind at least, the British partisans of racist Farage or the American Trump electors have no legitimacy to pronounce a condescending moral judgment on Filipinos

 

Besides, the members of  TV forums have amply demonstrated their capacity to provide systematically of the judgments erroneous. For me, I still participate here for the sole purpose of knowing the opinion that should not be shared

[RuamRudy]

33 minutes ago, happy Joe said:

 

Yes.

 

I lived in the Philippines for one year just before settling in Thailand. And the least bad place where I stay was Davao City.

In this country everywhere, authorities had renounced a decent order, except in Davao where Mayor Dutertre was not afraid to face Mafia.

If the Filipinos chose him as leader with an overwhelming majority this is not without reason. And to my mind at least, the British partisans of racist Farage or the American Trump electors have no legitimacy to pronounce a condescending moral judgment on Filipinos

 

Besides, the members of  TV forums have amply demonstrated their capacity to provide systematically of the judgments erroneous. For me, I still participate here for the sole purpose of knowing the opinion that should not be shared

 

I do not agree with you about the general state of lawlessness in Philippines. Yes there are problems; yes there are places I will not go, but when I lived in Bangkok, there were similar areas I would never step foot in. Hell, that is the same in every city I have ever lived in.

 

Duterte never stood on a platform of indiscriminate killings of drug offenders and those labelled drug offenders. During his stump speeches, he never suggested that he would give carte blanche immunity for people to kill their enemies and escape justice by placing a cardboard sign by the body, declaring them a drug dealer. That is the reality now.

 

And as for facing the 'Mafia', are you actually serious? The pedal trike riders who, on a good day, earn 200 pesos are not the power behind the Philippines' drug industry. But it is the poor who are taking all the pain and suffering while the real drug barons are safely insulated in their Tagaytay estates.

Edited December 16, 2016 by RuamRudy

[jcsmith]

34 minutes ago, happy Joe said:

And to my mind at least, the British partisans of racist Farage or the American Trump electors have no legitimacy to pronounce a condescending moral judgment on Filipinos

Being elected does not give you the right to violate international law or commit crimes against humanity. I for one an appalled by the rhetoric of Trump and Farage, as well. But they aren't out there comparing themselves to Hitler or saying they will support killing of millions of people as Duterte has.

Edited December 16, 2016 by jcsmith

[HooHaa]

24 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I do not agree with you about the general state of lawlessness in Philippines. Yes there are problems; yes there are places I will not go, but when I lived in Bangkok, there were similar areas I would never step foot in. Hell, that is the same in every city I have ever lived in.

 

Duterte never stood on a platform of indiscriminate killings of drug offenders and those labelled drug offenders. During his stump speeches, he never suggested that he would give carte blanche immunity for people to kill their enemies and escape justice by placing a cardboard sign by the body, declaring them a drug dealer. That is the reality now.

 

And as for facing the 'Mafia', are you actually serious? The pedal trike riders who, on a good day, earn 200 pesos are not the power behind the Philippines' drug industry. But it is the poor who are taking all the pain and suffering while the real drug barons are safely insulated in their Tagaytay estates.

 

Actually he said he would do for the country what he did for davao.

In davao he killed anyone with a vague involvement with drugs indiscriminately. This was common knowledge the country over.

People knew what he meant, and they certainly knew what he would do.

[Grubster]

9 hours ago, jcsmith said:

The problem here is that he has empowered citizens to be vigilantes. Murder anyone and then claim you saw them selling drugs. It's a madman's policy.

You may be correct here but then maybe you are only hearing the west side of the story. I for one am tired of the war on drugs that has cost millions of lives in the west while leaving drugs more available to children there than ever. Do you have a better plan? Lets hear it.

[Cool Blue]

It's all very easy, but it's a bit of smoke and mirrors.   First, convince the people that all their problems are due to a singular cause.   Pick most anything, homosexuality, blacks, people from the neighboring country, capitalism, communism.   Pick anything and then start getting rid of all those who might be a in that group.   No need to confirm it.   Associating with them should be enough for an execution.   Check under beds and in closets.   Leave no stone unturned and litter the streets with corpses.   It should be more fun that the gladiators of Rome.  
 
Once all those using drugs have been killed, the Philippines will still be a poor country, with many living in grinding poverty.   It will suffer from the continued overpopulation and will export it's people, like Australia exports sheep to the Middle East.   
 
And then there will be a new generation, who will find some solace in drugs, as mankind has since the earliest recorded times.   So then pick another from the list.   Rinse and repeat.   
 
Nothing has really changed for the people.   

Beautifully said.
Very sad that so few understand it.
Unfortunately the biggest problem is ignorance and lack of mental rigor as a result of a terrible education system (which was finally updated by the previous government) coupled with the religious mindset that favors belief over reason. The gullibility of the masses is gaping wound of the Philippines.

Religion is an outdated concept that is confusing and repressing that country.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NongKhaiKid]

Yesterday, and hot on the heels of the Trade Minister, the Presidential Communications Spokesman told the BBC that Duterte's ' style ' is to speak the way he does to instill fear in the criminals and he should not be taken literally.

 

Later in the day Duterte was at it again , claiming he had in fact shot people and it did make him fit for President etc,

He apparently takes very strong painkillers for migraines and back problems and a doctor has said the painkillers can cause ' confusion ' etc but the official spokesman says there's no such  problems for Duterte.

Must be fun not to say nerve wracking being on his staff when there's a microphone around.

[Scott]

24 minutes ago, NongKhaiKid said:

Yesterday, and hot on the heels of the Trade Minister, the Presidential Communications Spokesman told the BBC that Duterte's ' style ' is to speak the way he does to instill fear in the criminals and he should not be taken literally.

 

Later in the day Duterte was at it again , claiming he had in fact shot people and it did make him fit for President etc,

He apparently takes very strong painkillers for migraines and back problems and a doctor has said the painkillers can cause ' confusion ' etc but the official spokesman says there's no such  problems for Duterte.

Must be fun not to say nerve wracking being on his staff when there's a microphone around.

I am sure it is nerve wracking to be around someone who is taking drugs for back problems, and then denies he's taking drugs, but kills people who use drugs.  

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, Scott said:

I am sure it is nerve wracking to be around someone who is taking drugs for back problems, and then denies he's taking drugs, but kills people who use drugs.  

Quote of the day!

[RuamRudy]

11 hours ago, Grubster said:

You may be correct here but then maybe you are only hearing the west side of the story. I for one am tired of the war on drugs that has cost millions of lives in the west while leaving drugs more available to children there than ever. Do you have a better plan? Lets hear it.

 

You are looking for a plan that is better than the current plan? Well, the current plan has already cost innocent men, women and children their lives, and yesterday a 6 year old boy became the latest victim. I don't know what your definition of 'better' is, but mine would be one that didn't give the right to commit indiscriminate murder to faceless vigilantes.

 

"A 6-year-old Manila boy is among the latest victims in the ongoing violence against drug criminals in the Philippines. "There was a  a knock on the door." said Elizabeth Navarro, who is pregnant and already a mother of five at 29. "My husband said who's that? Then I heard two gunshots." By the time Navarro realized what was happening, her husband, Domingo Manosca, and son, Francis, were dead."

[Grubster]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You are looking for a plan that is better than the current plan? Well, the current plan has already cost innocent men, women and children their lives, and yesterday a 6 year old boy became the latest victim. I don't know what your definition of 'better' is, but mine would be one that didn't give the right to commit indiscriminate murder to faceless vigilantes.

 

"A 6-year-old Manila boy is among the latest victims in the ongoing violence against drug criminals in the Philippines. "There was a  a knock on the door." said Elizabeth Navarro, who is pregnant and already a mother of five at 29. "My husband said who's that? Then I heard two gunshots." By the time Navarro realized what was happening, her husband, Domingo Manosca, and son, Francis, were dead."

I am talking about a better plan for the world drug war, The US plan has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens all over the world and the drugs are readily available within walking distance of every school in the US. If they have a thousand or so "innocent" collateral damage deaths and end up with no drugs on the street then Success will be had for all but those innocents. I do not believe western media to tell the whole truth of anything anyway.      Show us a better plan to stop the daily carnage that drugs are causing. Just down talking someone else's efforts is worthless to me.

                     I believe the west is not only standing by to watch Afghanis grow illegal Opium, but we are protecting, and supporting them. Is this a humane way to deal with the drug problem?   We need a real working plan, at least the Philippines are trying something different.

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I am talking about a better plan for the world drug war, The US plan has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens all over the world and the drugs are readily available within walking distance of every school in the US. If they have a thousand or so "innocent" collateral damage deaths and end up with no drugs on the street then Success will be had for all but those innocents. I do not believe western media to tell the whole truth of anything anyway.      Show us a better plan to stop the daily carnage that drugs are causing. Just down talking someone else's efforts is worthless to me.

                     I believe the west is not only standing by to watch Afghanis grow illegal Opium, but we are protecting, and supporting them. Is this a humane way to deal with the drug problem?  

 

 

This thread is not about the failure of successive western governments to tackle the menace of drugs, but the effect of the current strategy employed by the Philippines' president.

Innocent children are being killed in the execution of this strategy so I say that it is every bit as much a failure as previous attempts by other administrations have been.

 

12 minutes ago, Grubster said:

We need a real working plan, at least the Philippines are trying something different.

 

So, just to be clear - how many dead innocents are you willing to accept as collatoral damage?

[Grubster]

28 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

This thread is not about the failure of successive western governments to tackle the menace of drugs, but the effect of the current strategy employed by the Philippines' president.

Innocent children are being killed in the execution of this strategy so I say that it is every bit as much a failure as previous attempts by other administrations have been.

 

 

So, just to be clear - how many dead innocents are you willing to accept as collatoral damage?

When you fight a war[ this is a war] you have to try to limit collateral damage, but you cannot eliminate it. Again the west has killed many more innocent people in our drug war than this guy could ever kill. But thats OK, because these innocents are in South America and they don't count to us do they? Our war has been a total failure as we refuse to fight it at home.

 Wars are ugly, but necessary sometimes.

                          How many more innocents are you willing to sacrifice at the hands of the drug lords while you search for a totally humane solution?  They kill a lot more than this guy ever will.

                          I believe very little of the western media once they have taken their stance. This little kids father may have caused hundreds of deaths by selling his drugs to kids, you and I don't know that, and if he did then it was he that caused his sons death.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, Grubster said:

This little kids father may have caused hundreds of deaths by selling his drugs to kids, you and I don't know that, and if he did then it was he that caused his sons death.

 

Putting aside your 'sins of the father' implication, you acknowledge that the father may have caused harm to others. But we will never know for sure because no evidence was presented in a court of law to determine his guilt. He and his son are dead because some faceless, nameless individual chose to kill him. That is not justice.

[Grubster]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Putting aside your 'sins of the father' implication, you acknowledge that the father may have caused harm to others. But we will never know for sure because no evidence was presented in a court of law to determine his guilt. He and his son are dead because some faceless, nameless individual chose to kill him. That is not justice.

And is the same in all wars. There is no justice in war. The justice system has failed miserably in the battle against drugs while thousands die every day. I lean towards the end that saves the most lives until you and yours figure out a way to end the killing peacefully.  Show your plan, I will support it if it makes sense. I will readily admit I was wrong if your plan works anywhere in the west. I think legalization is the best plan I've heard but that is not going to happen I'm afraid.

[lovelomsak]

On 12/15/2016 at 4:50 AM, hansnl said:

 Please tell that to assure my friend whose father was killed.

No, he was not a criminal, no he had nothing to do with drugs, yes he was murdered.

For being old and poor.

Very clear indeed.

 

ok lets trade collatoral damage stories 

 neices husband with two children at work night shift is technician must gather info from stations outside of plant. goes to one site interrupts a drug deal they crush his skull and he dies. 

i lnow my story is true so is collatoral damage due to  drugs just part of doing business ? 

both deaths his and the old man were because of drugs in the community,that is why drugs must be taken out of the community.when the drugs are gone so is drug related deaths

[mikebike]

I am talking about a better plan for the world drug war, The US plan has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens all over the world and the drugs are readily available within walking distance of every school in the US. If they have a thousand or so "innocent" collateral damage deaths and end up with no drugs on the street then Success will be had for all but those innocents. I do not believe western media to tell the whole truth of anything anyway.      Show us a better plan to stop the daily carnage that drugs are causing. Just down talking someone else's efforts is worthless to me.
                     I believe the west is not only standing by to watch Afghanis grow illegal Opium, but we are protecting, and supporting them. Is this a humane way to deal with the drug problem?   We need a real working plan, at least the Philippines are trying something different.

Simply it is not a war. For the best, not better, but empirically best plan, read up on Portugal's plan and it's outcome. The exact results everyone wishes for and no one dies. Simple solution that is proven to work. No need of a ridiculously ineffective, expensive, 'drug war'.

[craigt3365]

Seems he's now admitting he killed 3 people:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38337746

 

Quote

 

The President of the Philippines Rodrigo Duterte has confirmed to the BBC that he shot dead three men while mayor of Davao.

He said: "I killed about three of them... I don't know how many bullets from my gun went inside their bodies. It happened and I cannot lie about it."

 

 

He should be put in jail.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Grubster said:

And is the same in all wars. There is no justice in war. The justice system has failed miserably in the battle against drugs while thousands die every day. I lean towards the end that saves the most lives until you and yours figure out a way to end the killing peacefully.  Show your plan, I will support it if it makes sense. I will readily admit I was wrong if your plan works anywhere in the west. I think legalization is the best plan I've heard but that is not going to happen I'm afraid.

 

My plan? I don't have the faintest idea of what to do in the short term but I know that this indiscriminate free-for-all is legally and morally wrong. And it didn't take the murder of children for me to realise that.

[craigt3365]

3 hours ago, Grubster said:

I am talking about a better plan for the world drug war, The US plan has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens all over the world and the drugs are readily available within walking distance of every school in the US. If they have a thousand or so "innocent" collateral damage deaths and end up with no drugs on the street then Success will be had for all but those innocents. I do not believe western media to tell the whole truth of anything anyway.      Show us a better plan to stop the daily carnage that drugs are causing. Just down talking someone else's efforts is worthless to me.

                     I believe the west is not only standing by to watch Afghanis grow illegal Opium, but we are protecting, and supporting them. Is this a humane way to deal with the drug problem?   We need a real working plan, at least the Philippines are trying something different.

Where is your link that shows the US has "killed hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens all over the world". 

 

Sorry you have such a dislike for Western media.  There are some great sites out there.

[mikebike]

Where is your link that shows the US has "killed hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens all over the world". 
 
Sorry you have such a dislike for Western media.  There are some great sites out there.

Well he did say the US plan, not the USA itself, which is true. Mexico ' s death toll stands at 120,000 so hundreds of thousands worldwide since the 70s is a reasonable estimate.

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Well he did say the US plan, not the USA itself, which is true. Mexico ' s death toll stands at 120,000 so hundreds of thousands worldwide since the 70s is a reasonable estimate.

Mexico is an absolute mess due to drugs.  I'm glad the US is starting to legalize marijuana.  It's no worse than booze! LOL  Get the criminal element out of it, and the associated corruption.

[mikebike]

Mexico is an absolute mess due to drugs.  I'm glad the US is starting to legalize marijuana.  It's no worse than booze! LOL  Get the criminal element out of it, and the associated corruption.

I believe Mexico is a mess due to the USA'S drug policy and it's desire to inflict it's policy on the world by forcing capitulation thru the world bank and the IMF.

[craigt3365]

6 minutes ago, mikebike said:

I believe Mexico is a mess due to the USA'S drug policy and it's desire to inflict it's policy on the world by forcing capitulation thru the world bank and the IMF.

LOL. That's another whole topic and a very deep one!  What a wicked web we weave?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I just watched on CNN and people on the street claim that Davao is much safer thanks to Duterte's little experiment.

[craigt3365]

8 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

I just watched on CNN and people on the street claim that Davao is much safer thanks to Duterte's little experiment.
 

Other than that bomb that went off recently in the market and killed quite a few people.

[RuamRudy]

42 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

I just watched on CNN and people on the street claim that Davao is much safer thanks to Duterte's little experiment.
 

 

If your neighbour was a dangerous criminal and I was to go and shoot every person in your street, the locality would be safer because the dangerous criminal is dead. That is effectively the policy here.

[nottocus]

On 15 December 2016 at 0:25 PM, RuamRudy said:

 

What are your feelings about those who are innocently caught up in it? I don't want to suggest that you think the 5-year old girl who was killed is trash, but do you agree with him that she is collatoral damage?

Depends if she was dealing drugs.

[Grubster]

10 hours ago, mikebike said:

Simply it is not a war. For the best, not better, but empirically best plan, read up on Portugal's plan and it's outcome. The exact results everyone wishes for and no one dies. Simple solution that is proven to work. No need of a ridiculously ineffective, expensive, 'drug war'.

I will read up on that, is it legalization? If so I have been a proponent of that for many years but good luck getting that past the rednecks.