Bathroom water heater - failure since day 1

[MJKT2014]

HI,

 

The wife installed a Clarte SH63CT water heater in a shower room, installed by Homepro last Saturday two days after we paid for it in their shop. When we returned two days later after installation having used it for one shower the power to entire apartment had cut and we lost a few thousand bahts worth of frozen food in the freezer as well! Whenever we turned on water heater the circuit breaker cut again. Called Homepro who sent someone around to check. After they left the water heater unit was not immediately cutting the circuit but was making alarming crackling type noises from within water unit device. I turned off circuit braker manually myself to stop the noise and haven't turned it on again. Called HomePro who now tell us to wait for a Clarte rep to check it out. This could take any amount of time for them to turn up and cold season approaching.

 

Should not Homepro be the people replacing unit immediately since it has never worked?

 

Cheers,

 

[Strange]

Water heaters use a lot of amperage and depending on where they pulled power from, its likely they just tapped into something with a small breaker. 

 

That crackling noise is water passing across the heating coils inside the heater and heating the water. Sounds normal to me. 

 

Did they use an existing power supply? Something like a water heater needs its own circuit. 

 

43 minutes ago, MJKT2014 said:

Should not Homepro be the people replacing unit immediately since it has never worked?

 

Sounds like it works now, ur just worried about the crackling noise right? 

[MJKT2014]

Thanks for help. When wife tried to turn heater on again the whole room tripped out like before. We have a separate circuit for the water heater (one of half a dozen in a circuit breaker box in the apt room) so we can isolate the heater off. There's also a single (45A) circuit breaker outside our room in corridor next to electric meters where each apt room has a circuit breaker assigned to it. Since we've had this new heater and if turning on then the outside circuit breaker in corridor breaks all circuits to our apartment room.

 

Perhaps there is a problem with the external breaker outside for the our apartment room? I don't know if it's ever been changed since we've lived here 15 years.

 

I found the heater cracking noise very worrisome as I have never heard it before - sounded like it was about to explode! We used to have an old heater that was always silent and worked well for several years. That heater starting tripping the room on outside circuit breaker last week. The heater repair guy took heater for repair and wanted to charge as much as we paid for the brand new one now giving us problems. So perhaps the heaters are OK inclusive alarming crackling noises on this new one (??) and its a problem with breaker outside?

 

Anyway I'll have to wait for the wife to sort it out. She usually gets things moving when needs be!

[Strange]

I don't want to give you bad advice, as hot water heaters can be pretty dangerous over here. 

 

There are quite a few posters and moderators that know their stuff and I'm sure they will be along shorty with professional advice. 

[KhunBENQ]

The water heater that you bought is a 6 kW (6000 W) model.

That takes about 27 A(mps)!

The biggest model for private households as far as I know.

 

Not every electrical installation in Thailand will take that.

Here in upcountry they will always put a separate breaker box for such a thing. 20 A in our case for the 3.5 kW model.

I replaced it by an RCBO to add even more security.

 

From your post I don't quite get what the breaker size is for your whole apartment.

Or otherwise; what's the size/value of the breaker that trips?

[KittenKong]

8 hours ago, Strange said:

That crackling noise is water passing across the heating coils inside the heater and heating the water. Sounds normal to me. 

 

My water heater doesnt make a noise like that and I would think twice about getting under it if it did. Nor would I care to use a heater that systematically tripped the circuit breaker.

 

Thai "technicians" are of very variable competence.

[Strange]

32 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

My water heater doesnt make a noise like that and I would think twice about getting under it if it did. Nor would I care to use a heater that systematically tripped the circuit breaker.

 

Thai "technicians" are of very variable competence.

 

Yep I know, but I have had plenty of point of use hot water heaters that make that "boiling" kind of noise. One in my house does it right now I can hear it heating the water. Not saying thats whats going on with OP and thats why I backed out. These things are dangerous & I don't want to give bad advice. 

 

Just because it tripped the breaker does not mean the unit is malfunctioning. 

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

Just because it tripped the breaker does not mean the unit is malfunctioning. 

I support this.

Waiting for more details from the OP.

It can be as simple as an insufficient supply/installation for this 6 kW heater.

Better the breaker trips than the fire starts.

 

[Crossy]

Please post a photo of the breaker which is opening (is it an MCB, RCD or RCBO?).

 

A 6kW shower should not be opening a 45A breaker, what else are you running in the apartment at the same time?

 

Whilst heaters do make noises i would be worried about crackling / fizzing sounds, any associated "electrical" smells?

 

Could you also post a photo of the heater with the lid off? (power off first please)

 

[KittenKong]

13 hours ago, Strange said:

Just because it tripped the breaker does not mean the unit is malfunctioning. 

 

I'm aware of that. I just pointed out that I would not care to use one that did.

[MJKT2014]

Well first off, Homepro did a good job after the wife got on the phone to them in a dominant role - suspecting they were prolonging the suspect purchase beyond the 7 days window we were allowed to change it!  They got a Claret (make of water heater) around within a day to replace the unit. The new unit doesn't make any noise at all and didn't trip any breakers so we are now OK.

 

There's a main circuit breaker for whole apartment of 45A, but the one for the heater itself is labelled QOvs C32 6000 IEC60898 - but I am not clear what that means?! It looks bigger than the others.

 

A new development however which suggests maybe the water heater was or wasn't to blame before, although we wanted it gone anyway with all the cracking noises it made. The development being that the bathroom tiled floor was getting unusually warm in an area that we only just noticed during period waiting to change the heater. It appears the wiring to the heater is probably running through some kind of conduit under the bathroom floor and the wiring must be having some problem to get hot there. It would have been a major inconvenience to dig up the floor so a couple of Thai electricians changed the wiring route from outside to isolate the sub floor cable usage altogether. Not impressed with their work on the new wiring which needs a more professional finish to it, but they have removed the hotspot and no more trips of breakers either and water heater working well now.

[Crossy]

4 hours ago, Arjen said:

Now is the question what wattage the Claret is? When it is also a 6kW your breaker 32A might be to small?

 

Arjen.

 

6kW @ 220V is 27A

 

A C32 will be just fine up to 7kW (or even a bit bigger) :)

 

[KittenKong]

On 17/12/2016 at 11:57 AM, MJKT2014 said:

The development being that the bathroom tiled floor was getting unusually warm in an area that we only just noticed during period waiting to change the heater. It appears the wiring to the heater is probably running through some kind of conduit under the bathroom floor and the wiring must be having some problem to get hot there.

 

Crikey.

[Crossy]

Yeah KK, I missed that on the first read through.

 

I would be worried about the rest of the wiring, the next hotspot may not be in such a forgiving place.

[lopburi3]

Not mentioned where located but 6kW heater would not be expected in most locations (3.5kW being normal) and expect any wires from 15 plus years ago indeed might not be sufficient.  What size wire did electrician use for the new run?  Did the copper look larger than original?  You might want to check further if using electric cooking in kitchen.   If you have lived there 15 yeas might be a good time for an upgrade and have an RCD installed if that 45 amp breaker is not.  

[MJKT2014]

Really appreciate the feedback guys. So helpful. Whilst we've had the apartment for 15 years, the wiring was all changed to brand new stuff 7 years ago when we gutted the place and refurbished everything new.

 

The recent "fix" by some local mooban electricians (not sure exactly where they were sourced yet, but cheap) bypassed the faulty under concrete wiring that was getting hot to some new stuff labelled 300V PVC 70C VAF 2x2.5 SQ.mm running out of the water heater but it connects to the outside by joining into some thinner looking wire labelled 750V PVC 70C THW 6 SQ.mm. 

 

Not being an electrician I'm not sure why the thicker wire is labelled 2x2.5 SQ.mm and the thinner wire is labelled 6 SQ.mm which is a bigger number?? Besides that the Thai electricians have just joined them together by wrap and twist and covering it with insulation tape which doesn't look how it should be done!

 

But the heater is running OK now for a couple of days since we've used it.

 

Some are suggesting 6000W is too much? It was the smallest water heater we could find in HomePro. It is used to run the hot water tap out of two taps hot & cold that run the mains water in the shower/bath. The hot water is too hot without a cold water supply next to it. The original apartment when we bought it came with a similar unit - since gone during the refurbishment 7 years ago.

Edited December 19, 2016 by MJKT2014

[lopburi3]

Believe some of us thinking it was a point of use type shower heater as OP said installed in shower - rather than a multi point unit.  This is definitely not the smallest water heater in any HomePro I have ever visited but perhaps for under counter multi point type (which having had the bad luck of using in some hotels and never getting anything but cold or scalding water from I avoid like the plague - cold water here is just not cold enough at the normal pressure to get a good temp and keep it).

 

As for the wire size that 2.5 is about at the limit but can not understand 6 being smaller (and hope there is none smaller).  Perhaps the 6 is single strand without the added covering making it appear smaller but the copper actually being much larger?  I hope. 

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, MJKT2014 said:

Some are suggesting 6000W is too much? It was the smallest water heater we could find in HomePro

Even if you are happy now I can not resist to ask: which HomePro was that?

Smaller ones out of stock?

Very exceptional.

 

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Even if you are happy now I can not resist to ask: which HomePro was that?

Smaller ones out of stock?

Very exceptional.

 

Gawd this bring back extremely aggravating memories of shops conveniently not having what I want in stock in favor of the most expensive option. 

 

Entire walls of tools, heaters, etc... Conveniently "no have" anything but the most expensive option. Go back the next day, speak to a different "Staff Member" and miraculously they "have" now. 

 

Hopefully this was not the case for OP. 

[bankruatsteve]

The breaker for the shower is 32 amp?  2.5mm2 is too small for 32 amp and too small for a 6KW heater.  Need at least 4mm2

[Strange]

1 minute ago, bankruatsteve said:

The breaker for the shower is 32 amp?  2.5mm2 is too small for 32 amp and too small for a 6KW heater.  Need at least 4mm2

 

Or a smaller shower heater. 6K is giant. I can't see how it would be possible not to have a scolding hot shower with apartment water unless its turned almost off. 

[MJKT2014]

 

16 hours ago, Strange said:

 

Or a smaller shower heater. 6K is giant. I can't see how it would be possible not to have a scolding hot shower with apartment water unless its turned almost off. 

 

Appreciate the feedback on the re-wiring being possibly too small? We'll be keeping an eye on it as it now runs from the heater from under a sink cupboard up the wall externally via a raceway into the original wiring network of 6mm which is single strand. It feels just slightly warmer when used.

 

It was one of the cheapest (smallest?) multi point water heaters we saw in the Homepro but I wasn't checking power of units that closely, but rather prices at time. Yes the water heater produces scalding hot water as did all the previous two working multi point units we had over the 15 years so unlike the other point of use heaters that usually get fitted on the wall near the shower head and give out a gentler spray of warm water? This heater tho when mixed along with the cold water tap from a second water mains pipe produces a bath full of very warm water to ones liking from a single tap much faster (useful for the kids) or if just showering a much more powerful stream of warm water at the shower head - but more suited to colder climates as it is a UK design. 

[lopburi3]

Most here prefer to shower than wallow but agree that would be much faster as using mostly cold tap water.

 

You can get a powerful stream with higher water pressure - which is why many of us use home pumps.

 

Do you have an RCCB?   Either in your breaker panel or the main 45 amp breaker in hall?  They are not that expensive and can save a life.  I am an advocate for them as feel they are well worth the cost - and have been using since they became available here in about 1978 (and that unit is still working).