Why Say It, If You Don't Mean It.

[thequietman]

Living here coming up to 14 years and still the people frustrate me.

 

It this damn 'Face' thing again. Wife booked a guy to do some work this morning. Very easy money and he said he would be there bright and early.

 

No big surprise...he didn't turn up. She confronted him asking why he said he would, when he didn't. His answer "I didn't want to do it!"

 

He didn't want to lose 'face' by admitting he didn't want to do it and he didn't want her to lose 'face' by saying no to her. She is turn didn't ask someone else to do the work for today because he told her he was coming.

 

This is not a Thai bash by a far stretch but how in any ones mind (cultural or not) can this make any kind of sense?    

[Johnniey]

Probably had a bucket full last night spending the rich foreigner's money.

[sirmud63]

and that there , is the epitomy of thainess ,   

[georgemandm]

If you have been here for 14 years then you most know Thais are very lazy not all but some .

so her gets up to lazy to go and do your work, that's it , nothing To do with save face at all .

just a lazy man .

[thequietman]

31 minutes ago, Johnniey said:

Probably had a bucket full last night spending the rich foreigner's money.

I'm sorry, I don't understand.  Whose money was he spending??

[georgemandm]

1 minute ago, thequietman said:

I'm sorry, I don't understand.  Whose money was he spending??

Yes whose money, you did not say you paid him .

[thequietman]

Just now, georgemandm said:

Yes whose money, you did not say you paid him .

Yep, wasn't paid a satang cause .............. he didn't show up.

[Johnniey]

19 minutes ago, thequietman said:

I'm sorry, I don't understand.  Whose money was he spending??

Thais, especially drunks, often spend money they haven't earned. 

[55Jay]

What kind of work was it?

[stevenl]

This face thing is a mis conception, same thing everywhere.
And handymen/construction workers not showing up, also same everywhere.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Rc2702]

Sounds like he had another job on and did not want to lose the business so tried to string you along. sounds a bit more realistic than saying he did not want to do it but said yes anyway.

[cyberfarang]

9 hours ago, thequietman said:

Yep, wasn't paid a satang cause .............. he didn't show up.

You have been in Thailand for 14 years and yet you still have no idea how the system works here.

 

In Thailand making appointments and expecting those providing a service or workers to keep to those appointments is a big mistake. We have a man who comes in and cuts down our garden once a month. My girlfriend just phones the man`s wife and tells her we want our garden done please. His wife says OK; I`ll tell my husband. Then, and only when the man is ready and feels up to doing the job, his wife phones and says he is on his way. Once the man is here he always does an excellent job and it`s been this way for years.  It was similar last year when we wanted some external electrical wiring put up outside. We called an electrician we know and he told us, I`ll let you know when I`m ready. 2 weeks later he turned up to complete the work. No problem as I have become used to this now.

 

This is how things work here, get used to it.

 

 

[canopy]

I have many experiences like the OP. If I need something I ask them to choose the day and price. Most of the time they are a no show. They won't tell you they aren't coming which is impolite and furthermore will not answer their phone when you try to find out what happened. This is beyond laziness. Why agree if you had no intention of doing anything? This causes them to lose face because anytime you see them afterward they are in that awkward position of having deliberately broken a promise for no good reason and you both know it.

 

[Deepinthailand]

Then you need to source a good odd job man. Pay a decent wage and when you find a good one look after him/her

[KittenKong]

34 minutes ago, canopy said:

..... anytime you see them afterward they are in that awkward position of having deliberately broken a promise for no good reason and you both know it.

 

Do you think that Thais ever feel any remorse or guilt for anything? I dont.

 

Thais dont arrive on time or dont do what they say they will do because they simply dont care in the slightest about anyone other than themselves. They dont care that the person who they have promised to do the work for has arranged his schedule to ensure that the work can be done properly, or that he wants the work done by a specific date/time for a specific reason that is important to him.

 

This is exactly the same reason why they double-park in the middle of a busy road when there is an empty parking space 5 yards away, and why they drop litter everywhere, and why so many of them will scam and lie and cheat and generally disobey the law: they simply dont care how much inconvenience they may be causing to others, as long as what they do suits themselves.

[Deepinthailand]

5 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

Do you think that Thais ever feel any remorse or guilt for anything? I dont.

 

Thais dont arrive on time or dont do what they say they will do because they simply dont care in the slightest about anyone other than themselves. They dont care that the person who they have promised to do the work for has arranged his schedule to ensure that the work can be done properly, or that he wants the work done by a specific date/time for a specific reason that is important to him.

 

This is exactly the same reason why they double-park in the middle of a busy road when there is an empty parking space 5 yards away, and why they drop litter everywhere, and why so many of them will scam and lie and cheat and generally disobey the law: they simply dont care how much inconvenience they may be causing to others, as long as what they do suits themselves.

Do you feel better now. You have just described most of the civilised world well done

[Kwasaki]

l wouldn't of bother asking him anyway or again and just got someone else.

[KittenKong]

35 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

Do you feel better now. You have just described most of the civilised world well done

 

Well, if the civilised world you come from behaves like that then I wouldn't call it very civilised.

 

Of course Thailand isnt the only place to have inconsiderate and selfish people in it, but the proportion certainly does seem to be higher here. Where I lived in Europe (not the UK) people kept appointments, didn't drop litter, would never double park, and were generally reliable and trustworthy and honest. Part of this may be due to the law there being much more strict and much better applied, or maybe it was just some sense of responsibility that was drummed into them in school (that certainly doesnt seem to happen here), but either way the end result was the same.

 

I certainly managed to be self-employed there for 30 years, working for the public, during which time I never let anyone down, never overcharged or did a bad job, and always had a full order book.

[geriatrickid]

7 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

You have been in Thailand for 14 years and yet you still have no idea how the system works here.

 

In Thailand making appointments and expecting those providing a service or workers to keep to those appointments is a big mistake. We have a man who comes in and cuts down our garden once a month. My girlfriend just phones the man`s wife and tells her we want our garden done please. His wife says OK; I`ll tell my husband. Then, and only when the man is ready and feels up to doing the job, his wife phones and says he is on his way. Once the man is here he always does an excellent job and it`s been this way for years.  It was similar last year when we wanted some external electrical wiring put up outside. We called an electrician we know and he told us, I`ll let you know when I`m ready. 2 weeks later he turned up to complete the work. No problem as I have become used to this now.

 

This is how things work here, get used to it.

 

 

 

 

You provide a vlauable learning experience for those who are patient enough to read and think it through. The Thai approach you describe is an alternative to the western approach of   making an appointment, an appointment that can be 3 months +away because of the work schedule. The  Thai approach is to fill in the job as time allows. Some jobs take longer than expected, and others can be done quickly.  Sometimes the Thai approach is more efficient in terms of the worker's  time management.

[thequietman]

7 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

You have been in Thailand for 14 years and yet you still have no idea how the system works here.

 

In Thailand making appointments and expecting those providing a service or workers to keep to those appointments is a big mistake. We have a man who comes in and cuts down our garden once a month. My girlfriend just phones the man`s wife and tells her we want our garden done please. His wife says OK; I`ll tell my husband. Then, and only when the man is ready and feels up to doing the job, his wife phones and says he is on his way. Once the man is here he always does an excellent job and it`s been this way for years.  It was similar last year when we wanted some external electrical wiring put up outside. We called an electrician we know and he told us, I`ll let you know when I`m ready. 2 weeks later he turned up to complete the work. No problem as I have become used to this now.

 

This is how things work here, get used to it.

 

 

I know how the system works, it's just, it continually surprises me per say. Same sh@te, different year.

[Strange]

12 hours ago, stevenl said:

This face thing is a mis conception, same thing everywhere.
And handymen/construction workers not showing up, also same everywhere.

 

Face thing is a misconception? Really? This face thing is ingrained in their DNA and probably one of the main root causes of a majority of what can make Thailand so frustrating sometimes. 

 

59 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

Do you feel better now. You have just described most of the civilised world well done

 

I never understood why people say things like these two ^ I mean I get it, they are unwilling to see things for what they are because they love it, but, no, not like "most of the civilized world" unless you guys are from a 3rd world country. 

 

Nobody says that frustrating shit doesn't happen everywhere else in the world. The issue is the concentration in witch it happens here and how its completely accepted & expected. 

[Strange]

5 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Sometimes the Thai approach is more efficient in terms of the worker's  time management.

 

Doubtful. But maybe "Sometimes" I guess. 

 

The issue is them confirming a time/place for work, then flat out no-showing and not calling. 

 

Arrange a time for workers, internet people, aircon service people etc. to come, plan your day to be there, and they don't come, or come extremely late, usually not calling either. 

 

I mean I get it, I expect it, but everyone has jobs, responsibilities, and I don't know about anyone else but its very rare that I'm late for anything, and I never no-show if I confirm. Its not like its all that hard to time manage. They just don't care because its all about them, and who cares about the impact they have on others. 

TIT of course, but its still frustrating sometimes. 

[cornishcarlos]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

Then you need to source a good odd job man. Pay a decent wage and when you find a good one look after him/her

 

Makes no difference... Sometimes they just don't want to go to work !!

You can be as nice as you like, pay above average wage and still one day they just don't show up...

That's why I have my own tools and get things done, as soon as they need doing :)

[Strange]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

Then you need to source a good odd job man. Pay a decent wage and when you find a good one look after him/her

 

Do you have an odd job man? What are you paying him to keep him retained and how do you look after him?

[Deepinthailand]

3 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Well, if the civilised world you come from behaves like that then I wouldn't call it very civilised.

 

Of course Thailand isnt the only place to have inconsiderate and selfish people in it, but the proportion certainly does seem to be higher here. Where I lived in Europe (not the UK) people kept appointments, didn't drop litter, would never double park, and were generally reliable and trustworthy and honest. Part of this may be due to the law there being much more strict and much better applied, or maybe it was just some sense of responsibility that was drummed into them in school (that certainly doesnt seem to happen here), but either way the end result was the same.

 

I certainly managed to be self-employed there for 30 years, working for the public, during which time I never let anyone down, never overcharged or did a bad job, and always had a full order book.

Live in the UK then let down all the time by so called trades. Everywhere you look there's fly tipping and the streets are filthy. Schools don't teach kids how to be clean nor do most patents so please stop the Thai this thai that really a well used  phrase if you really don't like the place you call home move to another home.

[Deepinthailand]

2 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Makes no difference... Sometimes they just don't want to go to work !!

You can be as nice as you like, pay above average wage and still one day they just don't show up...

That's why I have my own tools and get things done, as soon as they need doing :)

Well that may be your take or experiance certainly not mine we have a handy man and wife who come as we ask them too. Never been let down by them they get a well above minimum wage and dinner to boot. So again I would say you are not a tracing the right people.

[cyberfarang]

5 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

Then you need to source a good odd job man. Pay a decent wage and when you find a good one look after him/her

Exactly. My girlfriend told me the going rate for someone to cut down a garden where I live is 300 baht. I pay our guy 700 baht for about two and a half hours work, that is peanuts for me and the man has been available to us for years. He always does a good job and no worries.

 

I have a reputation where I live for paying over the top and treating those who do jobs for me with courtesy and respect. Now whenever we need something done we have good people that are only too willing to do the jobs for us. It`s all down to attitude and realising we are not in our own countries, lowering our expectations and tolerance.

[impulse]

5 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Do you think that Thais ever feel any remorse or guilt for anything? I dont.

 

One of the first lessons I learned in China is that they never say "no".  They send out all kinds of signals to indicate that they have no intention of doing what you've requested, but they won't say no. 

 

If I push them hard enough to agree to what I've requested, the only person to blame when they don't follow through is myself.  Because I was too insensitive to catch on to their signals.

 

Edit:  And no.  That's not me being sarcastic.  That's me learning to live in a foreign culture.  Not good.  Not bad.  Foreign.  It's worked for them for thousands of years, and they aren't going to change for me.

Edited December 18, 2016 by impulse

[stevenl]

 
I never understood why people say things like these two ^ I mean I get it, they are unwilling to see things for what they are because they love it, but, no, not like "most of the civilized world" unless you guys are from a 3rd world country. 
 
Nobody says that frustrating shit doesn't happen everywhere else in the world. The issue is the concentration in witch it happens here and how its completely accepted & expected. 

Yes, I am not willing to see things the same as you. But no, things are not what you think them to be.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Strange]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

Live in the UK then let down all the time by so called trades. Everywhere you look there's fly tipping and the streets are filthy. Schools don't teach kids how to be clean nor do most patents so please stop the Thai this thai that really a well used  phrase if you really don't like the place you call home move to another home.

 

Ah yes, of you don't like it, leave. How original. So Thai. 

 

Just because you find some things aggravating does not mean you can't talk about it or complain, or in your case, act like it does not exist. 

 

Doesn't mean you have to pack up and leave.