Economy healed under Obama, but unhappy voters chose Trump

[lannarebirth]

8 minutes ago, deathmule said:

Just giving a source on low labor participation

 

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/jun/13/dave-brat/dave-brat-us-labor-participation-rate-lowest-70s/

 

 

 

 

It is apparently pretty ugly out there for some people. Mostly undereducated middle aged white men, who "surprise" voted mostly for Trump. I hope he doesn't let them down.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYILMQ0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

[ThaiWest]

“You hatred of foreigners is simply unbelievable. Why the hate for foreign students?“

 

I have no ‘hatred’ for any foreigners. None whatsoever. I was just stating that American Citizens should have priority over foreign students. And that foreign students should have respect/regard for the country they are studying in and not become activist in politics of that country or that country’s government. They should as well have respect for the people of that country... And remember that they are guests of that country! Is that too much to ask? I think not.

 

For many years I worked with doctors who were in the US as guests. They were wonderful fellows to work with whom I most enjoyed and respected! However, they did not go out and demonstrate nor did they go out and take political positions in public. In private conversations, when asked, they freely expressed their feelings and those were most respected by those who were present. I will add, those feelings were considered long after the evening had ended! But, they understood that they were guest in the US and conducted themselves as such. Too many ‘foreign students‘ do not seem to understand that they too are guests... 

 

When I myself have been in a foreign country from mine, I have ever been mindful of the fact that I was a guest in that country and must respect the people and government of that country. My ‘rights’ were not the same as those of the citizens of that country and it would be over presumptive of me [not to say stepping outside legal bounds] to think that I had the same right as the citizens of that country!

[lannarebirth]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 Obama's fault was not that his stimulus program was too much but that it was too little.

 

Obama's fault was that his stimulus program went entirely to Wall Street and not to Main Street despite his promises to the contrary..

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Voters are never grateful for what you did for them yesterday. They want to know what you're going to do for them tomorrow.

Churchill is a good example of that. People are rainbow chasers looking for the leprechaun's pot of gold. The winner is the shovel seller. We have severely fallen into the debt trap so why should the political trap be any different. We have learned nothing since the days of the snake oil salesman. We want more for less enter China to give us a fix. 

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

2 minutes ago, ThaiWest said:

“You hatred of foreigners is simply unbelievable. Why the hate for foreign students?“

 

I have no ‘hatred’ for any foreigners. None whatsoever. I was just stating that American Citizens should have priority over foreign students. And that foreign students should have respect/regard for the country they are studying in and not become activist in politics of that country or that country’s government. They should as well have respect for the people of that country... And remember that they are guests of that country! Is that too much to ask? I think not.

 

For many years I worked with doctors who were in the US as guests. They were wonderful fellows to work with whom I most enjoyed and respected! However, they did not go out and demonstrate nor did they go out and take political positions in public. In private conversations, when asked, they freely expressed their feelings and those were most respected by those who were present. I will add, those feelings were considered long after the evening had ended! But, they understood that they were guest in the US and conducted themselves as such. Too many ‘foreign students‘ do not seem to understand that they too are guests... 

 

When I myself have been in a foreign country from mine, I have ever been mindful of the fact that I was a guest in that country and must respect the people and government of that country. My ‘rights’ were not the same as those of the citizens of that country and it would be over presumptive of me [not to say stepping outside legal bounds] to think that I had the same right as the citizens of that country!

 

Same rubbish as before but without all the silly formatting.

 

Have you ever read the Constitution?

 

Does this need to create groups of second class citizens to oppress and try and move Consitutionally endowed rights address some sort of inferiority complex?

 

I fully support any group who resists any attempt to deny them of their guaranteed rights. Fortunately, the US Court system does not hold with such fascism.

[mike324]

12 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Yes, you can apply for an OPT for a year, but I was speaking about a permanent status. Perhaps I could have been clearer.

 

I think its pretty much the same world wide, which countries give permanent status to students after graduation? Confused what you are trying to get to? That the US should decrease the number of foreign students because they can't contribute much after they graduate? If thats the case, I think its silly. You shouldn't limit the amount of education people can receive. I don't see how its hurting the US too.

[ThaiWest]

Rubbish... Are you in the US?

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, ThaiWest said:

Rubbish... Are you in the US?

Rubbish to what exactly? And whatever issue you were addressing, you got any facts to contribute or just calumny?

[lannarebirth]

Just now, mike324 said:

 

I think its pretty much the same world wide, which countries give permanent status to students after graduation? Confused what you are trying to get to? That the US should decrease the number of foreign students because they can't contribute much after they graduate? If thats the case, I think its silly. You shouldn't limit the amount of education people can receive. I don't see how its hurting the US too.

 

No, what I am trying to get to is that it is a bogus argument that companies must hire H1B students because there are not enough graduates in America to fill those jobs. Obviously, had they not given the school spot in the desired major to a foreigner an additional American would have graduated in his place and been available to take the same job.

[mike324]

13 minutes ago, ThaiWest said:

“You hatred of foreigners is simply unbelievable. Why the hate for foreign students?“

 

I have no ‘hatred’ for any foreigners. None whatsoever. I was just stating that American Citizens should have priority over foreign students. And that foreign students should have respect/regard for the country they are studying in and not become activist in politics of that country or that country’s government. They should as well have respect for the people of that country... And remember that they are guests of that country! Is that too much to ask? I think not.

 

For many years I worked with doctors who were in the US as guests. They were wonderful fellows to work with whom I most enjoyed and respected! However, they did not go out and demonstrate nor did they go out and take political positions in public. In private conversations, when asked, they freely expressed their feelings and those were most respected by those who were present. I will add, those feelings were considered long after the evening had ended! But, they understood that they were guest in the US and conducted themselves as such. Too many ‘foreign students‘ do not seem to understand that they too are guests... 

 

When I myself have been in a foreign country from mine, I have ever been mindful of the fact that I was a guest in that country and must respect the people and government of that country. My ‘rights’ were not the same as those of the citizens of that country and it would be over presumptive of me [not to say stepping outside legal bounds] to think that I had the same right as the citizens of that country!

 

What makes you think that American Citizens don't have priority now? And what makes you think majority of the foreign students don't have respect for the country they are studying in? Based on my experience being surrounded by foreign students back in college, most love being in the US and respect the place. But to each of your own opinion if you don't think so.

Me thinks you are being too sensitive over a non important issue.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

No, what I am trying to get to is that it is a bogus argument that companies must hire H1B students because there are not enough graduates in America to fill those jobs. Obviously, had they not given the school spot in the desired major to a foreigner an additional American would have graduated in his place and been available to take the same job.

 

Just now, mike324 said:

 

What makes you think that American Citizens don't have priority now? And what makes you think majority of the foreign students don't have respect for the country they are studying in? Based on my experience being surrounded by foreign students back in college, most love being in the US and respect the place. But to each of your own opinion if you don't think so.

Me thinks you are being too sensitive over a non important issue.

Actually, there is evidence as in the recent case of Disney, the American employers hire foreign workers under the HB1 program when plenty of American workers are available.  The HB1 visa system is being systematically abused.

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Actually, there is evidence as in the recent case of Disney, the American employers hire foreign workers under the HB1 program when plenty of American workers are available.  The HB1 visa system is being systematically abused.

 

We had a Thai girl visit us last year after a Summer working at Disneyworld. She paid to get hired there and was paid less than the prevailing wage to work there.

[deathmule]

23 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It is apparently pretty ugly out there for some people. Mostly undereducated middle aged white men, who "surprise" voted mostly for Trump. I hope he doesn't let them down.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYILMQ0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

 

Why you portray it like it's bad? Undereducated middle aged white men voted for Trump, undereducated middle aged Africans/Hispanics/LGBTQ+ community members voted for "surprise" Hillary. So?

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, deathmule said:

 

Why you portray it like it's bad? Undereducated middle aged white men voted for Trump, undereducated middle aged Africans/Hispanics/LGBTQ+ community members voted for "surprise" Hillary. So?

 

I'm not portraying their voting as bad or good either, I was pointing out the situation they find themselves in, employment wise, seems to be pretty bad.

[mike324]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

No, what I am trying to get to is that it is a bogus argument that companies must hire H1B students because there are not enough graduates in America to fill those jobs. Obviously, had they not given the school spot in the desired major to a foreigner an additional American would have graduated in his place and been available to take the same job.

 

 

Its not the students stealing jobs, they make a a very small portion of the H1B applicants and are stealing very little of their school mates jobs. It is outsourcing companies that bring in jobs for companies such as Disney, and likes of Trumps vast real estate empire that makes the most impact. These outsourcing companies are replacing local jobs with low salary alternatives under H1B which they disguise as requiring "special" skills. That is the bigger concern and bigger impact on loss of american jobs.

 

Yes I agree the H1B is being misused, but mainly by large corporations and companies looking to pay lower salaries.

 

To add to that, there is no shortage of jobs on the market. It is shortage of skilled labor. Americans want manufacturing back in the US, but how many are actually willing to work in the manufacturing sector? Most young graduates don't want to work in the manufacturing sector. Average age of those in manufacturing sector is around 40 years, so in the future there are more and more jobs in this field, but no job takers or those that can filled these skilled labor.

 

Some high qualified grads can't find jobs, it is because the job market is also very competitive, for some engineering field that once payed $80k, they can find the same skilled workers for $40-50k (not talking about foreign workers). Hence some highly qualified grads complain they can't find a job, because $40-50k is too low for them.

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by mike324

[Kiwiken]

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Actually, there is evidence as in the recent case of Disney, the American employers hire foreign workers under the HB1 program when plenty of American workers are available.  The HB1 visa system is being systematically abused.

It is my opinion here in New Zealand that Employers prefer and hire Foreign workers over Locals because Foreigners are easier to control and bully and generally do not gripe about their wages. By this method they also keep the Domestic wage lower. I would think US Employers would do the same to keep labour cost down.

[Johpa]

The local tech companies in my region do pay the H1B workers less, but still pay them decent wages. The big carrot is the chance to be sent back home to someplace like Bangalore on the US salary, live like a king, and replace an entire unit in the US with really low wages.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Grubster]

7 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

 

I think they will now remain unhappy for the foreseeable future, perhaps even very unhappy. You reap what you sow!

The problem is not the economy, it is the plight of the working class people who earn less and less regardless of the economy.  This has been working its way up the ladder of labor, even software jobs that used to be upper middle class jobs are going down in pay dramatically, the american dream is far out of reach for a high percentage of workers in the US now and the past five administrations have done nothing but send jobs out and bring immigrants legal and illegal in.  Make no mistake the rich have encouraged illegal immigration to beat labor down, and the government has been working hand in hand with the rich on both sides of the isle.

        As Trump said " what do you have to lose".  I think that statement hit home across all races, religions, ethnicities, and genders. I know many hard working people who struggle just to survive in the land of plenty.

         I always tell people to be careful who you look down at as you may be down there with them some day.

[impulse]

Give the guy credit.  He was able to close the gate after all the horses bolted from the mess Bush left in his wake.

 

But he didn't fix the latch, pretty much guarantying that we'll see horses all over the highway again, and probably sooner than later.

[Ulysses G.]

43 minutes ago, Grubster said:

 

        As Trump said " what do you have to lose".  I think that statement hit home across all races, religions, ethnicities, and genders. I know many hard working people who struggle just to survive in the land of plenty.

         I always tell people to be careful who you look down at as you may be down there with them some day.

 

Wise words indeed!

[ilostmypassword]

59 minutes ago, impulse said:

Give the guy credit.  He was able to close the gate after all the horses bolted from the mess Bush left in his wake.

 

But he didn't fix the latch, pretty much guarantying that we'll see horses all over the highway again, and probably sooner than later.

Actually he did fix the latch. Ever hear of Dodd Frank? Why do you think Wall Street fought so hard against it? And the Consumer Protection Bureau? I'm sure Well Fargo Bank has a few unpleasant words to say about that. But guess what? The Republicans plan to undo Dodd Frank and the Consumer Protection Bureau?

[impulse]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually he did fix the latch. Ever hear of Dodd Frank? Why do you think Wall Street fought so hard against it? And the Consumer Protection Bureau? I'm sure Well Fargo Bank has a few unpleasant words to say about that. But guess what? The Republicans plan to undo Dodd Frank and the Consumer Protection Bureau?

 

I'll believe it's fixed when one of the banksters goes to jail.  Or when they retroactively claw back the bonuses (with interest) of all managers in any company that requires a government bailout, or stiffs their creditors and shareholders.

[Silurian]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

"Historians will remember President Obama for his rational, evidence-based approach," said Alan Krueger, a former economic adviser, "as opposed to the emotional, visceral style of the two presidents who will bookend his time in office."

 

"A lesser president," Krueger added, would have "upended our economic system for short-term political gain."

 

Yeah, can't have that rational, evidence-based approach messing things up. Now for some "shoot from the hip" and "I know more than any economist" approach to really make the economy boom. Yep, should see maybe 2 to 3 years of full on "pedal to the metal" economic growth until the tank empties out and the whole thing grinds to a halt. Hang on!

[impulse]

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually he did fix the latch. Ever hear of Dodd Frank? Why do you think Wall Street fought so hard against it? And the Consumer Protection Bureau? I'm sure Well Fargo Bank has a few unpleasant words to say about that. But guess what? The Republicans plan to undo Dodd Frank and the Consumer Protection Bureau?

  

I'll believe it's fixed when one of the banksters goes to jail.  Or when they retroactively claw back the bonuses (with interest) of all managers in any company that requires a government bailout, or stiffs their creditors and shareholders.

 

To be clear, I'm talking about the banksters who committed atrocities for which their shareholders have paid over $200 Billion in penalties with none of them going to jail.  A few salient quotes:

 

“These fines, as big as they are, don’t begin to compare to the amount of monetary damage that the banks did to the economy,”  Phil Mattera, research director at GJF and lead author of the report, told International Business Times. “The damage they did was probably in the trillions, so even if they’re fined a couple hundred billion, it doesn’t make up for everything that was done.”

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/how-much-did-banks-pay-2008-financial-crisis-fines-settlements-over-160-billion

 

Taylor, a former FX trader and an adviser for the Bank of England's Fair and Effective Markets Review, said bonuses are too high, there is little threat of jail for wrongdoers and bosses are not held responsible.

"The problem is the incentives for cheating markets is massive. If you can shift a rate fractionally you can make millions and millions of dollars for your bank and then for bonuses.

"Once senior executives feel they are personally at risk if the culture doesn't change, and individual traders feel they are at risk of being put in prison, then you'll get a culture change," he said.

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/20-global-banks-have-paid-235bn-fines-since-2008-financial-crisis-1502794

 

The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), together with regulators in the US and Switzerland, fined six banks $4.3bn after they found that traders had colluded in chat rooms to manipulate foreign exchange benchmarks.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11228773/The-banking-industrys-bill-for-bad-behaviour-300bn.html

 

Banks don't commit these atrocities.  People working at the banks do.  Then they walk off with huge bonuses, while the shareholders pay billions in penalties, the rank and file lose their jobs, people lose their homes and others can't borrow money to start businesses.  If you or I pulled crap like that, we'd never see the light of day again.  Banksters?  They get off scot free, even paying the fines with OPM.

Edited December 22, 2016 by impulse

[ilostmypassword]

Here's a link to a brief interview with Michael Lewis the author of Moneyball and The Big Short

http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-lewis-reveals-what-scares-him-about-president-trump-2016-12

[lannarebirth]

7 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually he did fix the latch. Ever hear of Dodd Frank? Why do you think Wall Street fought so hard against it? And the Consumer Protection Bureau? I'm sure Well Fargo Bank has a few unpleasant words to say about that. But guess what? The Republicans plan to undo Dodd Frank and the Consumer Protection Bureau?

 

Why are the Democrats so averse to reintroducing Glass-Steagal? Because half of them are Republicans now. Re-introduce Glass-Steagal and a good portion of Dodd-Frank goes away. Breaking up TBTF banks is a Win/Win for the people but Wall Street bonuses might be a tad smaller for a couple of years. Another reason Hillary lost. She couldn't even commit to that, because of course she was being paid not to.

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Why are the Democrats so averse to reintroducing Glass-Steagal? Because half of them are Republicans now. Re-introduce Glass-Steagal and a good portion of Dodd-Frank goes away. Breaking up TBTF banks is a Win/Win for the people but Wall Street bonuses might be a tad smaller for a couple of years. Another reason Hillary lost. She couldn't even commit to that, because of course she was being paid not to.

The thing about Glass Steagall is that it wouldn't have stopped the crash.  That was due to shadow banks like Lehman.  These are financial institutions that functioned like banks but legally weren't.  Dodd Frank actually did handcuff the shadow banks. Particlary the too big too fail banks. Not only did it make it unlikely that they could have cheap funds, but it imposed stricter regulations on those banks - than it did on smaller banks. to make sure that they had the capital on hand necessary to withstand a major run by depositors. Clinton actually had an explicit program to further rein in shadow banking.  As far as I know, Bernie Sanders didn't. 

[ilostmypassword]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lets-shatter-the-myth-on-glass-steagall/2012/07/27/gJQASaOAGX_story.html?utm_term=.6878aa081101

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lets-shatter-the-myth-on-glass-steagall/2012/07/27/gJQASaOAGX_story.html?utm_term=.6878aa081101

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/business/dealbook/after-147-years-goldman-sachs-hangs-a-shingle-on-main-street.html

 

Which begs the question; will Goldman be shorting tranches of mortgages that include the one they sold you in the previous year and will they be doing it with the money from your savings account?

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/business/dealbook/after-147-years-goldman-sachs-hangs-a-shingle-on-main-street.html

 

Which begs the question; will Goldman be shorting tranches of mortgages that include the one they sold you in the previous year and will they be doing it with the money from your savings account?

Well, if you mean the tiny little retail bank that Goldman opened, so what?  If it fails, the depositors are protected by Federal Deposit Insurance.  It certainly poses no threat to economy as a whole. And if the day ever comes when Goldman gets so big that it is a threat, it will be subject to Dodd Frank. Oh wait, the Republicans plan on abolishing Dodd Frank.