Israel to re-assess UN ties after settlement vote

[Naam]

13 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says his country will re-assess its ties with the United Nations, after the Security Council adopted a resolution demanding an end to Israeli settlement building on occupied Palestinian territory.

that will teach the UN a lesson!

[Ulysses G.]

27 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I think we're all getting a little tired of hearing Israel bleating on about things.....

 

Not nearly as tired as listening to the people who started the conflict in the first place - with a long history of Islamic terrorism -  whining about the consequences of their actions. The Palestinians bear plenty of responsibility for the situation they are in. 

Edited December 25, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Naam said:

that will teach the UN a lesson!

Easy to have a joke, but Israel cooperates with U.N. organizations in the west bank, so this could be more than a joke. 

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Not nearly as tired as listening to the people who started the conflict in the first place - with a long history of Islamic terrorism -  whining about the consequences of their actions. The Palestinians bear plenty of responsibility for the situation they are in. 

 

The Jews were given a state and did well building it up. But please do so peacefully and quietly. For 8M people we hear way to much moaning IMHO.

[Morch]

14 hours ago, pegman said:

It should be tossed out as a rogue state.  Economic sanctions  should be imposed.  South Africa's apartheid practices were overturned  by those methods and so too can Israel's apartheid regime  of Nutty Yahoo. 

 

Your in-depth knowledge and perception are impressive. Same goes for all  the luminaries who clicked "like" for this post.

 

Pray tell, how is Israel different than other UN members, many of which ignore relevant resolutions, or engage in questionable actions? Why should Israel be singled out? Apart from the irrational hatred many here often display, that is.

 

If Israel was anything like South Africa, it's Arab citizens would not have voting rights. If and when Israel will annex the West Bank and deny the Palestinians the same rights, then you'll have a point. This is pretty much the view expressed by South Africa's own former president, de Klerk. He was also also not overly impressed with the role the sanctions played in the changes he oversaw.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Morch

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

The Jews were given a state and did well building it up. But please do so peacefully and quietly. 

 

That is not an easy task when attacked by 5 Arab armies over and over again as well as being subjected to decades of Palestinian terrorism.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

13 hours ago, ezzra said:

He's echoing my post of yesterday that nothing will change, admittedly, it's an added headache for Israel having to deal with what the disappointed Of Israel in the voting preferences of courtiers known to be friendly to Israel, Israel has started with  reciprocal treatment of the above courtiers by cancelling high ranking diplomatic visits to Israel and withdrawing aid and assistance to some of the courtiers that while receiving aid are voting against it, It was also reported that Joe Biden has personally telephone some head of states to insure their vote in support of the resolution, if this is not dirty politics, I don't know what is.....

 

So it's ok to lobby only if it's for israel?

[Morch]

13 hours ago, Raymonddiaz said:

Israel is the only country on earth which can ignore UN resolution without any consequences. USA has never been a fair broker between Israel and Palestine. This conflict is one of the fuel of terrorism.

 

Hardly the only country. For one thing, many of the resolutions dealing with Israel apply also for the Palestinians. Somehow, their failures to abide by these resolutions are glossed over. And, of course, there's that resolution which started it all - and was promptly rejected by the Arabs. Don't let facts confuse you.

[Morch]

13 hours ago, stevenl said:

Boohoohoo, they are bad boys too. I dont accept that excuse from my boy. Israel should be better than this.

 

It is not an excuse. It's reality. The UN does invest an inordinate amount of energy producing resolutions dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Nothing which conforms to the magnitude or acuteness of the issues. On the other hand, it fails to even condemn certain other countries, never mind taking any concrete actions. There's an obvious lack of proportion, both when it comes to the UN and posters views.

 

[Morch]

7 hours ago, Dipterocarp said:

The official policy of the USA  is opposition to settlements. Even Bush. This however never would have happened under any other administration.

Obama the leftist radical joining the pack of Jackals to rhetorically throw Israel under the bus. A  gesture that will soon be negated.

Starting to warm to Trump.  Perhaps the people of NYC have had enough traffic jams, hotel maid rapes, "accredited diplomats" driving like animals and parking everywhere with diplomatic plates.

Trump should use his property development experience to arrange replacement with Condos. Then relocate the lot of them to a lower impact site,  perhaps Ottawa? Much better platform for wonderful supporters of Freedom the likes of Gaddafi, Chavez, and Achmedinejad to harangue America from.

 

 

Previous US administrations did abstain on such UNSC votes. In Obama's 8 years in office this is a first. Makes Obama very protective of Israel on this front, compared to other presidents. Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Jr. - all did, and more times than Obama.

 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, KenKadz said:

If Israel and Netanyahu get angry enough maybe they will stop taking the $6 billion from U.S. Taxpayers every year that the U.S. Government has been giving them for 70 years with no justification.

From here my thoughts digress into terms like terrorist state, founded by terrorists (sten gang), self-serving, manipulative, opportunists.

 

Israel doesn't receive US support for 70 years. And the military support it gets nowadays is about half of what you posted (spent on buying American, by the way). Netanyahu was not angry with the US as such, but with the Obama administration. A bit of a difference there.

 

Your thoughts digress indeed - Israel is not a "terrorist state", and the Stern Gang wasn't a major element in its foundation. Most countries are self-serving, manipulative and opportunist - it's called diplomacy and politics, that's how the world is run.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, dexterm said:

It would be helpful if you defined Zionism, other than in the vague terms "self determination for the Jewish people in a Jewish State", while hiding the real suffering of Palestinians that results from denial of their self determination too.

 

The reality is of course that this demographic superiority can only be achieved by unlimited Jewish immigration from all over the world by people who have never set eyes on the place before, while Palestinian refugees who still hold the keys to their ancestral homes just a few miles away are not allowed to return. (all contrary to the Geneva Convention mentioned in the OP UN resolution ..well worth a read http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761030)

 

But not content with that, the current Israeli government in the OP is repeating the process in the West Bank with illegal colonies (disguised with the feel good word "settlements" as though no-one is harmed in the process) of Jewish only communities, often on land not simply conquered in 1967 but for which the Palestinian landowners have the title deed stretching back generations. And if the Palestinians object they are moved on at the barrel of a gun, beaten up, imprisoned and sometimes murdered.

 

Do you deny that any of this happens under the aegis of Zionism?

 

That is why I object to Zionism, and that is why 14 brave nations voted for the current UN resolution and Obama (albeit bit late in the day) abstained. 

 

And that is why Israel is spitting the dummy threatening to re-assess its ties with the UN, because their illegal actions have been exposed.Their dirty linen has been aired.

 

The usual talking points, and the usual dishonesty. You pick and choose which UN resolutions you approve of, and then go off on one when others apply the same. An obvious example would be the revocation of the UN resolution 3379, or all the parts of UN resolutions dealing with the conflict and applying to the Palestinians.

 

The actions and policies you describe do occur, sans some of your trademark hyperbolic descriptions. They are not, however, done "under the aegis of Zionism", as you put it - but under the rule of mostly right wing political parties. As discussed and pointed out on many occasions - Zionism, by way of most -isms, is not a unified concept. What you choose to describe as the sole representation of Zionism is, in fact, one of its extreme manifestation. A blend of nationalistic, religious and messianic motivations. That there are other groups, other parties and other ways in which Zionism is perceived and practiced is a fact. That many on Israel's pro-peace opposition are Zionists is a fact too. And no, it is not required to get tangled in ideological definitions - it is enough to determine that alternatives do exist. To put it in another context, the same goes for people proclaiming this or that about other groups - say, Muslims. Somehow that's a big no no with you, eh?

[Morch]

And finally, something on the OP rather than the enlightened comments peppering this topic.

 

Netanyahu is in damage control mode, domestically that is. After all he was warned (and warned himself) that carrying on expansion of settlements, supporting the new related bill, delaying the Amona eviction, celebrating Trump's supposed effects on relations with the US would all come to bite him in the a$$. Even worse, a day before the vote he thought he had it covered (what with al-Sisi almost caving in to pressure) and let it be known. Fail. Now he's simply trying to spin it and direct blame to others.

 

The obvious target would have been his rightmost coalition partner party - but going this way would involve explaining how and why he didn't rein them in, but rather jumped on their train. Blaming the "leftists" usually works, but in this case, there wasn't any specific party or group this could be pinned on. Hence, it's the-world-against-us card, usually helpful to steer some faux nationalistic unity and shut up any objections as being "unpatriotic".

 

If the past is any indication, most of the steps announced or "contemplated" will remain on paper (or rather dissipate as hot air does), and those that will be implemented reversed within three months tops. Those wising to view the last time this happened can google Israel cutting relations with the EU. or something like that.

 

This threats read more like a spoiled child's tantrum, and rather than making anyone take heed, they just put Israel (never mind Netanyahu) in an even worse light. Granted, there are many, way too many even, resolutions and whatnot unfairly targeting Israel.  Practically a given by now, why throw a fit over something like that? Yeah, ok...blame need to placed on someone, but still seems rather excessive. And leaving the UN? What good would that do? And just before Trump's inauguration? Thought the whole point was to wait Obama out. But the real reason I think this isn't in the cards is this - that imbecile of an ambassador, Danon, is actually a player within Netanyahu's own party, and a wannabee challenger, was basically sent out of the way to the UN. Doubt Netanyahu wants him back.

[Thorgal]

I would not be surprised to see other UN nations also leave the UN out of solidarity to what happened to Israel.

Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, Palau and Nauru are just a few of them...

A well organised BDS and strong UN embargo campaign would make a prompt change in the region for peace.

The latest UNSC resolution condemned all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation, incitement and destruction.

This should be extended to all Israeli illegal occupied territories.

Palestinian refugees should be given right to return, and the Golan heights should be released to Syria for their refugees.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[hawker9000]

20 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

“Nothing will change,” said Khalil Jemzawi, a resident of Ramallah in the West Bank."

 

He is right. It is a toothless resolution and - rightly so - Trump will completely ignore it..

 

Whispering in the backrooms to get others supporting it, and then having the U.S. itself abstain, is precisely the sort of limp, cowardly, cockroach-in-the-woodword conniving anyone would expect from Obama.  How other world leaders must absolutely despise the guy and scorn & ridicule him behind his back.  I strongly suspect Rodrigo Duterte in his rants is actually just voicing out loud what most other leaders are thinking.  Yeap - Trump will definitely ignore it and hopefully go on to "re-assess" U.S. "ties to the UN" as well...  

 

[bandito]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Another one that seems to think Zionist is a dirty word.

Dude, if you want to criticize Israeli government policies, just say so.

Demonizing insinuations about Zionism in general are just hateful. 

Specific Israeli government policies are not the same thing as Zionism.

As far as the word fascist, yes there have been some fascist elements in Israeli government policies. 

See, it's not that hard to say what you mean without bleeding into hate rhetoric. 

 

Go for it, Jingthing, go for it.

Tell these aggenebbes lou tov goyim where to stick it.

Happy Hanukah.

Israel forever.

[optad]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Easy to have a joke, but Israel cooperates with U.N. organizations in the west bank, so this could be more than a joke. 

The fact that Israel rejected the 4th Geneva Convention, largely drafted after the atrocities of WWII to protect occupied peoples such as the the European Jewry, proves Israel does not. 

 

A resolution was passed in 1999 applying this convention directly to Israel and the occupied palestinian Arabs and Israel rejected it saying palestine was not a 'recognised' country. 

 

Here we are today will a full resolution again on topic. 

 

Will add relevant article from  JP on topic. 

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/The-settlements-are-illegal-under-international-law-336507

Edited December 25, 2016 by optad
link

[Scott]

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

I think we're all getting a little tired of hearing Israel bleating on about things.....

I suggest you not read or comment on these threads.   If you notice, it is only a handful of members who take much interest in them.   A few are knowledgeable, a few are anti-Semitic and few are here to learn.  

 

The majority come along to troll and get suspended.   That's very easy to avoid.   Just move along.  

 

 

[Dipterocarp]

7 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Previous US administrations did abstain on such UNSC votes. In Obama's 8 years in office this is a first. Makes Obama very protective of Israel on this front, compared to other presidents. Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Jr. - all did, and more times than Obama.

 

Previous administrations did abstain, the content of the resolution and the timing making it unprecedented. US policy is already clear. What forced Obama at this time,  to take an action that has immediately won the praise of Hamas (recognized by the US as a terrorist organization)?  Clear where Obama stands on this issue, Krauthammer wasn't lying when he said the US joined a pack of "jackals". The UN is good for very few things, one being a platform for criticism of Israel that goes well beyond rational debate and into anti-semitism. Like many of the predictable responses on this forum.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Dipterocarp

[naruk86]

Israel are very lucky they have family in the US
Otherwise, they would have been wiped off the map a long time ago. Disgusting regime

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Ulysses G.]

17 minutes ago, naruk86 said:

Israel are very lucky they have family in the US
Otherwise, they would have been wiped off the map a long time ago.
 

 

Don't think so. They defeated 5 Arab armies a number of times with little help and they are way more powerful now.

 

The latest UN vote is not helpful, but not legally binding anyway.

[Morch]

19 hours ago, Thorgal said:

I would not be surprised to see other UN nations also leave the UN out of solidarity to what happened to Israel.

Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, Palau and Nauru are just a few of them...

A well organised BDS and strong UN embargo campaign would make a prompt change in the region for peace.

The latest UNSC resolution condemned all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation, incitement and destruction.

This should be extended to all Israeli illegal occupied territories.

Palestinian refugees should be given right to return, and the Golan heights should be released to Syria for their refugees.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

Still fantasizing?

 

There are no international sanctions as you suggest, and there are no signs that there will be such, anytime soon. The only reason this resolution was passed is precisely because it does not incorporate such elements. The BDS is, by and large, ineffectual - other than giving some people a hard on, and playing as a convenient bogeyman for Netanyahu.

 

The latest UNSC resolution condemned violence by both sides, nicely glossed over as usual. And it does not apply much to other areas - no such violence in the Golan Heights, for example. And no, no one really things it's reasonable that Israel will return that to Syria under current conditions, even if Syria (read Assad) had any interest in the welfare of Syrian refugees.

[Morch]

12 hours ago, Dipterocarp said:

Previous administrations did abstain, the content of the resolution and the timing making it unprecedented. US policy is already clear. What forced Obama at this time,  to take an action that has immediately won the praise of Hamas (recognized by the US as a terrorist organization)?  Clear where Obama stands on this issue, Krauthammer wasn't lying when he said the US joined a pack of "jackals". The UN is good for very few things, one being a platform for criticism of Israel that goes well beyond rational debate and into anti-semitism. Like many of the predictable responses on this forum.

 

Previous administrations actually did abstain when it came to similar resolutions. The US policy may be clear, but apparently Netanyahu's government had repeated issues of comprehension. There were at least a couple of previous topics which dealt with the recent attempts by the Israeli government to pass legislation relating to the illegal settlements in the West Bank. The proposed legislation will retroactively give illegal (even by Israeli law) settlements official recognition and at the same time, retroactively approve land theft. Not land theft in the anti-Israel sense applied by many posters, but plain theft - as in takeover of private lands owned by Palestinians by illegal settlers.

 

The US action (or rather lack of), was on the cards for months, and ample warnings were given. Netanyahu himself addressed these worries, but chose the domestic politics angle and popularity consideration over national interest.

 

As far as I am aware, Hamas did not praise Obama, but the UNSC resolution in general. To remind some, this was voted in by 14 countries, perhaps direct some of the angst at them, a-la Netanyahu?

 

May want to read ambassador Power's speech at the UNSC, which includes the reason for the US decision:

 

READ: U.S. Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power's Full Speech at the Security Council
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761017

 

 

Quote

The UN is good for very few things, one being a platform for criticism of Israel that goes well beyond rational debate and into anti-semitism. Like many of the predictable responses on this forum.

 

We are in agreement on this part.

 

[Morch]

11 hours ago, naruk86 said:

Israel are very lucky they have family in the US
Otherwise, they would have been wiped off the map a long time ago. Disgusting regime

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

Israel did without US support for quite a while, may want to check your facts. You may also discover that most of Israel's opponents enjoyed massive support from the former USSR. Don't let that mess your narrative, though.

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Still fantasizing?

 

There are no international sanctions as you suggest, and there are no signs that there will be such, anytime soon. The only reason this resolution was passed is precisely because it does not incorporate such elements. The BDS is, by and large, ineffectual - other than giving some people a hard on, and playing as a convenient bogeyman for Netanyahu.

 

The latest UNSC resolution condemned violence by both sides, nicely glossed over as usual. And it does not apply much to other areas - no such violence in the Golan Heights, for example. And no, no one really things it's reasonable that Israel will return that to Syria under current conditions, even if Syria (read Assad) had any interest in the welfare of Syrian refugees.

 

Maybe not such a fantasy. Israeli authorities apparently disagree with you.

 

"However, despite enjoying support from the incoming US administration of President-elect Donald Trump, the Israeli authorities are worried that it [UN resolution]  could pave the way to other coordinated international action against settlements, such as economic sanctions."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-settelements-west-bank-illegal-un-vote-netanyahu-obama-trump-ambassadors-summoned-a7495126.html

"While the resolution contains no sanctions, Israeli officials are concerned it could widen the possibility of prosecution at the international criminal court. They are also worried it could encourage some countries to impose sanctions against Israeli settlers and goods produced in the settlements."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/israel-summons-ambassadors-un-resolution-benjamin-netanyahu

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by dexterm

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, dexterm said:

 

Maybe not such a fantasy. Israeli authorities apparently disagree with you.

 

"However, despite enjoying support from the incoming US administration of President-elect Donald Trump, the Israeli authorities are worried that it [UN resolution]  could pave the way to other coordinated international action against settlements, such as economic sanctions."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-settelements-west-bank-illegal-un-vote-netanyahu-obama-trump-ambassadors-summoned-a7495126.html

"While the resolution contains no sanctions, Israeli officials are concerned it could widen the possibility of prosecution at the international criminal court. They are also worried it could encourage some countries to impose sanctions against Israeli settlers and goods produced in the settlements."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/israel-summons-ambassadors-un-resolution-benjamin-netanyahu

 

 

Which "Israeli authorities" would these be? Neither report mentions. Yet, you cite it as "facts". I wouldn't be surprised if officials are, indeed, preparing for any eventuality, that's sort of standard.

 

Sanctions against Israel? Need a wide participation, and without the US, it's pretty much a no go proposition, despite your fantasies. Sanctions against goods produced in the West Bank or against settlers is a possibility, but again - hard to implement, and still requires wide participation.

 

And once more - even if successful, these will hurt the Palestinians as well. From previous posts, I'm aware this matters little for you, keyboard warriors and SJW aren't usually the ones facing the hardship for the cause, that they preach.

Sanctions against settlers?  

 

 

 

[naruk86]

 
Israel did without US support for quite a while, may want to check your facts. You may also discover that most of Israel's opponents enjoyed massive support from the former USSR. Don't let that mess your narrative, though.

It won't don't worry
Biggest group of terrorists those Israelis.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Thorgal]

 
Maybe not such a fantasy. Israeli authorities apparently disagree with you.
 
"However, despite enjoying support from the incoming US administration of President-elect Donald Trump, the Israeli authorities are worried that it [UN resolution]  could pave the way to other coordinated international action against settlements, such as economic sanctions."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-settelements-west-bank-illegal-un-vote-netanyahu-obama-trump-ambassadors-summoned-a7495126.html

"While the resolution contains no sanctions, Israeli officials are concerned it could widen the possibility of prosecution at the international criminal court. They are also worried it could encourage some countries to impose sanctions against Israeli settlers and goods produced in the settlements."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/israel-summons-ambassadors-un-resolution-benjamin-netanyahu
 

Thanks for your feedback and the links.

Really appreciated !


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Thorgal]

 
Which "Israeli authorities" would these be? Neither report mentions. Yet, you cite it as "facts". I wouldn't be surprised if officials are, indeed, preparing for any eventuality, that's sort of standard.
 
Sanctions against Israel? Need a wide participation, and without the US, it's pretty much a no go proposition, despite your fantasies. Sanctions against goods produced in the West Bank or against settlers is a possibility, but again - hard to implement, and still requires wide participation.
 
And once more - even if successful, these will hurt the Palestinians as well. From previous posts, I'm aware this matters little for you, keyboard warriors and SJW aren't usually the ones facing the hardship for the cause, that they preach.
Sanctions against settlers?  
 

I think it's all too clear if the Israeli government is refusing cooperation to stop future settlements and refuse future evictions from occupied territories. Remembering Gaza evictions. No blame to the people, but rather the blame to pertinent and inconsistent colonial policies of Israel in that region : see picture below. That's not a fantasy.

Just a sanction or embargo on oil and gas imports would be devastating for the military high tec apparatus of Israel.






Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Morch]

46 minutes ago, naruk86 said:

It won't don't worry
Biggest group of terrorists those Israelis.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

Troll on.