Trumps pick for ambassador to Israel sparks hot debate

[optad]

7 hours ago, dexterm said:

From the OP...[Friedman] "called the two-state solution a mere "narrative" that must end."

 

Well at least he is calling a spade a spade. Netanyahu's and the US charade that Israel wants to negotiate a two state solution is over. We can now forget his flip flops.

 

Looks like we will reach a one state solution much sooner than I anticipated.

When the choices will be:

 

Equal citizenship for occupied Palestinians, overt apartheid, or ethnic cleansing.

 

Interesting times ahead.

Exactly right. Thx dex because "the mere narrative" comment was welcomed for its honesty. If we are going to put all the diplomatic dirty laundry out there Israel is going get a soaking.

 

The issue is open now. Not going to stop with the Don.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[boomerangutang]

This will anger the Palestinian extremists and swell their ranks.  It's been moderately quiet there for several years, but now radicals will become prominent again.  Expect bombs to be tossed over fences and walls, with IDF responding with jet strikes.  Probably a good time to start a window replacement biz in Gaza and the West Bank.

[Ulysses G.]

36 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

This will anger the Palestinian extremists and swell their ranks. 

 

Same old. Same old. They never stop being angry and it never does them any good. They need to try being rational for a change and sign a peace treaty.

[up-country_sinclair]

It's Trumps right to choose who he wants and it appears he's going with a man who by some accounts puts Israel before the US.   It will be interesting to see what happens if/when Trump realizes that his ambassador is doing the bidding of another boss.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

yeah...like the kurds wanna rule Syria, right...the free syrian army has no meaning when jihadi organizations outgun them by a big margin...take the time to open yer eyes and see what's actually goin' on...

 

In Syria, the Kurds are more associated with the SDF,  rather than the FSA, and are essentially the main element. The Kurds do not aim to rule all of Syria, but would sure like to carve some of it as their own (and rightly so).

[Morch]

11 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 I have. the Kurds have died in the tens of thousands keeping the west safe so that you can mouth off simplistic justifications for wholesale destruction. All those "darkies" look the same to you don't they? Go Putin go. The Kurds have  been risking their lives for principle for 100+ years

 

The Kurds have enough reasons to die for without adding "to keep the west safe" to the list. No need to overdo it.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

hey, man...calm down...I ain't got nothin' against the kurds...yer mixin' up yer arguments here...the kurds ain't the syriam opposition and all they want is autonomy and to be left alone which I support...

 

now clean the froth offa yer mouth and make yerself a cuppa...

 

Syrian Democratic Forces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces

 

Islamic State, Kurdish battle for Raqqa key to Syria’s fate

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/islamic-state-kurdish-battle-for-raqqa-key-to-syrias-fate/news-story/5662bd6c519439ff439b76262851018a

[Morch]

10 hours ago, evadgib said:

As a non-septic I'll ask; Why are Ambassadors changed simply because there's a regime change in DC? Elsewhere career diplomats get on with it regardless.

 

In some countries (or even many) it is customary for a leader to appoint trusted persons as ambassadors to key allies, or alternatively, to potential flashpoint. This is aimed to assure that the views of the ambassador's home country leadership are properly represented and, in turn, the same goes for embassy briefings. The concept of "career diplomats" is a fine one, but does not always stand the test of reality, especially when there are wide gaps in views of leader and ambassador.

[Morch]

12 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

yeah...we all wanna see a bunch of jihadis take over in Syria...the israelis would love it...

 

Why on earth would Israel want a "Jihadi" ruled Syria next door? The minute they'll take a breather or the minute they'll need a diversion, rather obvious where they'll head. And please, if possible, without vague insinuations or conspiracy theories.

[Morch]

12 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

That didn't stop the Arab world from its attacks in 1967 or 1973 did it? It didn't help in Iran's proxy war in Lebanon did it? Pakistan and North Korea  had supplied Iran with nuclear dirty bombs decades ago, so go back and  review your history.

 

Pakistan and North Korea  had supplied Iran with nuclear dirty bombs decades ago

 

I suggest that you review your history. At least on this gem.

 

 

[Morch]

13 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Good news. Anyone planning to obliterate President Barack Obama's approach to Israel is alright by me.

 

Even if this is not how many of the Israelis feel about it?

[Morch]

12 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Jared Kushner and his gang do not represent the US jewish community and this will backfire. The orthodox community  think they know everything, but they will only spark resentment and a reticence amongst  the jewish community to support Israel.  The settlers are disliked in Israel and seen as pushy moochers who cost the country  because of the need to provide for their security. Although vocal, they are a minority. Israelis may soon  be cursing their blessing soon enough.

 

Such decisive views, pity reality doesn't offer much support.

 

As the OP itself states, even in Friedman father's synagogue, opinions are divided. Doubt Friedman is representative of all Orthodox Jews in the US.

 

Settlers are disliked in Israel? By some, certainly, even by many. But an all encompassing view such as presented, no. There are many right wing voters who support them without living in the West Bank. A minority? Sure, but then Israel is made of sectarian minorities, and as such go, the illegal settlers are pretty good at leveraging and promoting their views. There are currently three parties on the Netanyahu coalition which fully or partially represent their position.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by Morch

[Morch]

12 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Whatever, the choices will be, you can be sure that Israel and the Israelis will win. They have been winning for 7 decades already.

 

That would very much depend on what one considers a "win".

[tutsiwarrior]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Why on earth would Israel want a "Jihadi" ruled Syria next door? The minute they'll take a breather or the minute they'll need a diversion, rather obvious where they'll head. And please, if possible, without vague insinuations or conspiracy theories.

 

I was bein' facetious...but, come to think of it, the Israelis would love an excuse to bomb their hostile arab neighbor into the stone age...with Trump's blessing and assistance of course...dem ragheads are all a buncha goddam muslims...

[Morch]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

This will anger the Palestinian extremists and swell their ranks.  It's been moderately quiet there for several years, but now radicals will become prominent again.  Expect bombs to be tossed over fences and walls, with IDF responding with jet strikes.  Probably a good time to start a window replacement biz in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

 It's been moderately quiet there for several years, but now radicals will become prominent again.

 

Come again? There was that war in Gaza in 2014, and an ongoing stream of violent attacks (mostly not including Gaza) since 2015.

The "radicals" never really lost their prominence, though. The recent expression of this was when elections were cancelled yet again - at least in part due to a projected victory by Hamas.

 

But yes, this move will no doubt play into the hands of extremists on both sides.

 

 

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

I was bein' facetious...but, come to think of it, the Israelis would love an excuse to bomb their hostile arab neighbor into the stone age...with Trump's blessing and assistance of course...dem ragheads are all a buncha goddam muslims...

 

So according to the new nonsense on top of the old nonsense, the only justification needed is the neighbors being Muslim? Funny how that doesn't happen with countries like Egypt or Jordan, eh?

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Same old. Same old. They never stop being angry and it never does them any good. They need to try being rational for a change and sign a peace treaty.

 

If the new ambassador's appointment is an indication of what will be on offer, then that's can hardly be called a peace treaty.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, up-country_sinclair said:

It's Trumps right to choose who he wants and it appears he's going with a man who by some accounts puts Israel before the US.   It will be interesting to see what happens if/when Trump realizes that his ambassador is doing the bidding of another boss.

 

It's interesting that you push them same idea no matter what the circumstances. Friedman does not put Israel before the US, but what he and others believe to be the interests of Israel (and as far as I know, they could see it as conforming to US interests as well - not that I agree). By all accounts, Friedman's own view are more extreme than Netanyahu's. If anything, it might be a case of Netanyahu discovering that he is working for another boss.

[tutsiwarrior]

 

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

So according to the new nonsense on top of the old nonsense, the only justification needed is the neighbors being Muslim? Funny how that doesn't happen with countries like Egypt or Jordan, eh?

 

Egypt and Jordan are 'good muslims' as they agreed to non aggression toward Israel...it got Anwar Sadat assassinated and the jihadis are gunnin' fer the king of Jordan...

[Morch]

1 minute ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

 

Egypt and Jordan are 'good muslims' as they agreed to non aggression toward Israel...it got Anwar Sadat assassinated and the jihadis are gunnin' fer the king of Jordan...

 

So the issue is aggression against a country, not the religion of the neighbors. Kinda puts it in a different light.

[tutsiwarrior]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

So the issue is aggression against a country, not the religion of the neighbors. Kinda puts it in a different light.

 

mix and match...Netanyahu and Trump ain't gonna give a shit...full speed ahead towards the Apocalypse, just what the jihadis ordered...

 

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by tutsiwarrior

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

mix and match...Netanyahu and Trump ain't gonna give a shit...full speed ahead towards the Apocalypse, just what the jihadis ordered...

 

 

 

And you base this on the two nonsense posts you posted earlier?

[tutsiwarrior]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And you base this on the two nonsense posts you posted earlier?

 

nonsense?...whatever you say, dude...

[cncltd1973]

Wow, nothing like some middle east politics to bring out the ugly. I can only imagine getting some posters in the same room and watching the blood fly. Clearly religion has been the leading cause of death throughout history. Let's just outlaw these outdated  legends and myths of afterlife associations and let humanity and science reign for a few thousand years. It's been a stumbling block for progress for far too long.

[cncltd1973]

6 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

This will anger the Palestinian extremists and swell their ranks.  It's been moderately quiet there for several years, but now radicals will become prominent again.  Expect bombs to be tossed over fences and walls, with IDF responding with jet strikes.  Probably a good time to start a window replacement biz in Gaza and the West Bank.

Fully agree. Balance there is made from an eye for an eye. An extremist on one side will see extremist action from the other. I wonder if it's coincidence that Trump is filling an ambassadorship with his bankruptcy lawyer, or if he thinks his pick is the best to represent America in Israel. Or maybe Trump really thinks he can do what no other president before him has done, and finally bring peace to the middle east. Can't underestimate Trump's ego and opinion in his own ability, Hopefully we won't have too much retribution on our own soil for overly favoring one side at the expense of the other.

[bandito]

21 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Whatever, the choices will be, you can be sure that Israel and the Israelis will win. They have been winning for 7 decades already.

 

Indeed, I was a sailor on an Israel cargo ship, in 1967 during the Yom Kippur war, and in the Mediteranean Sea.

General Moshe Dayan, and his army, was 60 km from Cairo on his way to occupy the town but was ordered by his Government to retreat, under his protest.

The Egyptians are still sh.....g their pants over this.

Israel has been fighting at 3 or 4 fronts, at one time, to stop would be invaders from pushing them in the sea and won all of them and stopped the invaders.

Nobody and no one is ever going to occupy Israel, never ever.

 

[Ulysses G.]

4 minutes ago, bandito said:

 

Indeed, I was a sailor on an Israel cargo ship, in 1967 during the Yom Kippur war, and in the Mediteranean Sea.

General Moshe Dayan, and his army, was 60 km from Cairo on his way to occupy the town but was ordered by his Government to retreat, under his protest.

The Egyptians are still sh.....g their pants over this.

Israel has been fighting at 3 or 4 fronts, at one time, to stop would be invaders from pushing them in the sea and won all of them and stopped the invaders.

Nobody and no one is ever going to occupy Israel, never ever.

 

 

Indeed. Thanks for the first-hand info.

[Morch]

16 hours ago, cncltd1973 said:

Wow, nothing like some middle east politics to bring out the ugly. I can only imagine getting some posters in the same room and watching the blood fly. Clearly religion has been the leading cause of death throughout history. Let's just outlaw these outdated  legends and myths of afterlife associations and let humanity and science reign for a few thousand years. It's been a stumbling block for progress for far too long.

 

Who are "we", in this case? And how can a religion be outlawed in a pluralistic society?

[Morch]

9 hours ago, bandito said:

 

Indeed, I was a sailor on an Israel cargo ship, in 1967 during the Yom Kippur war, and in the Mediteranean Sea.

General Moshe Dayan, and his army, was 60 km from Cairo on his way to occupy the town but was ordered by his Government to retreat, under his protest.

The Egyptians are still sh.....g their pants over this.

Israel has been fighting at 3 or 4 fronts, at one time, to stop would be invaders from pushing them in the sea and won all of them and stopped the invaders.

Nobody and no one is ever going to occupy Israel, never ever.

 

 

The Yom Kippur war took place in 1973. The 1967 war is also known as the six-days war. In the latter Israel conquered all of the Sinai Peninsula, but did not make much of a headway into Egypt proper. It was in the 1973 war that Israeli forces crossed the Suez Canal, and were about a 100 km from Cairo. On both occasions, Dayan was the Minister of Defense, rather than the general at the front.

 

If present day warfare was as straightforward as these wars were, then yes - Israel could handle pretty much most existing threats. The thing is that warfare changed since then - and the distinction between front and home front is murkier. That's without getting into the diplomatic and economic costs of war.