China says Pearl Harbor visit won’t ‘clear’ Japan’s wartime role

[webfact]

China says Pearl Harbor visit won’t ‘clear’ Japan’s wartime role

 

 

Ahead of his landmark visit to the site of the Pearl Harbor bombing on Tuesday, Japan’s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has stopped at several memorials in Hawaii.

 

His presence is intended to show a strong alliance between his country and the United States, seven months after President Barack Obama’s historic trip to Hiroshima where the US dropped an atomic bomb at the end of World War Two.

 

And just as Obama did not apologise, nor will Abe. Both men, together, will pray for the dead.

 

“I am very much looking forward to sending out a strong message about the value of reconciliation as well as our sincere prayers for those who died in the war,” Abe told guests at a dinner reception held on the occasion of his visit, in Hawaii’s capital, Honolulu.

 

Abe is keen to boost ties with the US amid concerns about China’s expanding military capability.

 

But in Beijing, where the government has urged Japan to show greater repentance for the war and the Japanese invasion of China, a foreign ministry spokeswoman said on Tuesday that it was “wishful thinking” for Abe, if he hoped to use the visit to “settle the accounts” for the war.

 

It was on December 7, 1941, that Japan launched its surprise attack on the US naval base at Pearl Harbor. It left some 2,400 Americans dead and catapulted the United States into the Second World War.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-12-28

[phantomfiddler]

But isn,t China doing in the South China Sea exactly what Japan attempted to do 80 years ago ? ie take over a large area that did not belong to them ! Hypocrites !

[outsider]

Says a country that crushed unarmed students with tanks. However this does not mean I condone what Japan did during WWII.

[JAG]

At least he told them he was coming this time......

 

[IAMHERE]

I am betting that this trip was a hurry up and get it done before Trump becomes president. If Hilary had won Abe would have waited until she could show up at Pearl Harbor. He is two faced and the Chinese have him sussed.

[Yann55]

For once, I agree with the Chinese government.

 

Pearl Harbour was one thing, and the Nanking Massacre another.

 

What the Japanese did in Nanking is beyond horrific, there is no excuse whatsoever for such savagery and let's hope there will be no forgetting either, but I wouldn't bet on that.

 

'Praying for the dead' huh ? My, the level of hypocrisy in politics is mind-boggling.

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

But in Beijing, where the government has urged Japan to show greater repentance for the war and the Japanese invasion of China, a foreign ministry spokeswoman said on Tuesday that it was “wishful thinking” for Abe, if he hoped to use the visit to “settle the accounts” for the war.

When does the so called repentance stop and the healing start. The Chinese were no saints either. All countries in the world have baggage attached.  

[nausea]

Indeed. I'm not a big Bible guy but the take the beam out of your own eye seems appropriate here. No-one is innocent, back to the guys who probably wiped out the Neanderthals.

[bangon04]

22 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

But isn,t China doing in the South China Sea exactly what Japan attempted to do 80 years ago ? ie take over a large area that did not belong to them ! Hypocrites !

yes, and if they succeed in "isolating" Japan from its american protectors, they will be very happy to punish Japan heavily for all the historic insults and injuries which they will never forget or forgive.

[tigermoth]

Of course it won't 'clear' the atrocities in China and other parts of Asia and the world. These can never be 'cleared' but they will never be forgotton, just as Germany's role in the murder of millions of Jews can never be cleared.  We must all get on with the future and cooperation between all the worlds nations, although with the vast majority of the worlds nations governments now ruling for themselves and self profit instead of their people this is looking all the more difficult.

[ilostmypassword]

The difference between the Japanese and the Germans is that the Germans have apologized profusely and financially over their atrocities. The Japanese Prime Minister refuses to even acknowledge them.

[Briggsy]

The thing is China never apologises for its aggression towards others. Ever. It has two  personalities,

i) the justified suppressor/retaliator

ii) the indignant victim.

 

It never strays from these two roles in conflicts, past or present. By doing this, grudges are held for ever and ever and the reconciliation process never gets underway. (Until China has its eye on natural resources or strategic policy advantage) The very best China ever does is "forget the past" i.e. sweep previous conflicts under the carpet. This inability to admit wrongdoings holds back China.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I say put the Poppy on for Remembrance of our War Hero's and forget the rest. War is War! The US dropped the A-Bomb on Japan to, and China has done so many things in the past, and what China is known to do.

 

Pointing fingers now makes no sense at all. Also having some Government Official say they are sorry, and hold his hand over his heart, when he really doesn't mean it, and he could care less, means nothing at all either. Even the kids of the people killed at Pear Harbor and where old enough to remember them, would be 85 years old now.  

[geriatrickid]

China is correct. Westerners do not appreciate the tens of millions of Chinese who died because of the Japanese. Manchuria was one big slave operation.

The Europeans  also conveniently forget their rape and looting of China prior to the arrival of the Japanese. How many people know of the forcing of opium on the Chinese?This is what drives the Chinese attitude. They never intend to again be the victims of foreigners

[KNJ]

At cessation of WW2, China seized 20 Billion USD worth of assets.

Japan continued with Overseas development, and continues to be one of the largest investors in China, without which China would unlikely be in the position it is today.

Chairman Mao on behalf of the Chinese waived the right to any reparation.

Just look at the way they are behaving in the  South China sea today, take a look at the way they are raping the resources of Africa today.

If you are going to have strong opinions, at least look at the context and facts, failing which you will only display an emotional argument which is flawed, and show yourself as an uneducated ranter

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

China is correct. Westerners do not appreciate the tens of millions of Chinese who died because of the Japanese. Manchuria was one big slave operation.

The Europeans  also conveniently forget their rape and looting of China prior to the arrival of the Japanese. How many people know of the forcing of opium on the Chinese?This is what drives the Chinese attitude. They never intend to again be the victims of foreigners

Not so much problem with being victimizers, though.

[geriatrickid]

7 hours ago, KNJ said:

At cessation of WW2, China seized 20 Billion USD worth of assets.

Japan continued with Overseas development, and continues to be one of the largest investors in China, without which China would unlikely be in the position it is today.

Chairman Mao on behalf of the Chinese waived the right to any reparation.

Just look at the way they are behaving in the  South China sea today, take a look at the way they are raping the resources of Africa today.

If you are going to have strong opinions, at least look at the context and facts, failing which you will only display an emotional argument which is flawed, and show yourself as an uneducated ranter

 

In what imaginary  universe did this seizure  of $US 20 billion occur? Ever  hear of the Treaty of San Francisco?  Mainland China was not a signatory at the time,  and was  intentionally excluded. The Treaty awarded compensation of $15.8 billion of assets to China, of which  a large portion were assets that the Japanese had taken from the Chinese dating back to 1901 and more specifically, the illegal occupation of Manchuria.  What do you think that works out to if you use the  Treaty of San Francisco's 14 million Chinese killed  by the Japanese? Works out to about  $1000 per fatality doesn't it? Hardly, big bucks.

 

The Japanese occupation of Manchuria was brutal and was on the same level of colonial occupation as the Portuguese in Angola and Namibia or the Belgians in the Congo. Absolute theft with no investment in anything. At least the French and British left schools, hospitals and other infrastructure behind in China.

The Japanese investments were intended to benefit Japan  through the use of cheap labour.

 

Yes, let's look at the  Chinese behaviour in their region. Are you aware that the  issue with the Spratleys and other territories goes back to the Treaty of San Francisco? Because the Chinese were intentionally excluded, the Chinese claims  for the return of the territories were never resolved. That's why they exist today. Thank the idiots of the 1950's who thought that they could marginalize  and isolate the Chinese.

 

Yes, the Chinese can be accused of exploiting Africa, but the reality is that unlike the westerners, the Chinese have not forced themselves on anyone. The Chinese have filled a vacuum created by the west. The Chinese haven't committed a genocide like the Belgians did in the Congo did they? How about a forced militarization of a country as the Germans did in Botswana?  Have the Chinese engineered the overthrow of any elected governments in Africa as the  USA did in Zaire?  Did they violently suppress any local government attempts in a brutal manner as was done  by the British in Kenya, or the French in Algeria?

 

I am no fan of the Chinese. My family lost  its Chinese assets, first to the Japanese and then to the communists, with the final insult, the family patriarch detained for being an anti revolutionary agent of a foreign power, aka a spy. He was only released  in the mid 1950's as the last of the foreigners were expelled. There were tens of thousands of westerners who had been born and raised in China, and all were mistreated and all lost everything. And yet,   because of the Japanese war crimes, the forced starvation and trauma of the Chinese that they had witnessed they understood why the Chinese were so angry and resentful. The horrors of the Japanese  occupation are worse than what the Germans did. It emotionally scarred and traumatized  generations of  Chinese.  

 

Our own countries helped  create the double standard. Look at how the  Commonwealth  & US POWs were abused by the Japanese, and the Japanese were never fully held accountable for it. The horrors inflicted on the POWS from Singapore and Hong Kong and the death marches like Bataan are unknown to the Japanese public. How can  one expect the Chinese to  care about western sensitivities, when the west gave a pass on the war crimes to the Japanese?

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 

 

Yes, the Chinese can be accused of exploiting Africa, but the reality is that unlike the westerners, the Chinese have not forced themselves on anyone. 

 

O

Tibet,anyone?

[Baerboxer]

On 12/28/2016 at 8:26 AM, phantomfiddler said:

But isn,t China doing in the South China Sea exactly what Japan attempted to do 80 years ago ? ie take over a large area that did not belong to them ! Hypocrites !

 

Hadn't notice the Chinese carry out mass rapes, tortures, killings - often in the most hideous ways imaginable of men, women and children. Often exterminating whole families for pleasure and entertainment. 

 

Even Nazis based in Nanking were horrified and repulsed. Read the book "The Rape of Nanking". That's before they got to exterminating Chinese in Singapore and their wonderful treatment of allied POW's.

 

When has China ever carried out such barbarism.

 

What's worse, they've never apologized, atoned, or even admitted it.

[Baerboxer]

On 12/29/2016 at 2:27 PM, KNJ said:

At cessation of WW2, China seized 20 Billion USD worth of assets.

Japan continued with Overseas development, and continues to be one of the largest investors in China, without which China would unlikely be in the position it is today.

Chairman Mao on behalf of the Chinese waived the right to any reparation.

Just look at the way they are behaving in the  South China sea today, take a look at the way they are raping the resources of Africa today.

If you are going to have strong opinions, at least look at the context and facts, failing which you will only display an emotional argument which is flawed, and show yourself as an uneducated ranter

 

At cessation of WW2, the vast amounts of gold, jewels, valuables, treasures, looted by the Japanese from the countries they invaded "disappeared". Some say MacArthur's keen protection of Japan might have had something to do with that. 

 

Do some research. 

[Cook my sock]

 

At cessation of WW2, the vast amounts of gold, jewels, valuables, treasures, looted by the Japanese from the countries they invaded "disappeared". Some say MacArthur's keen protection of Japan might have had something to do with that. 

 

Do some research. 

And the yanks helped themselves to a lot of Japanese goodies too.

Chinese love using the past as an excuse for the present

[nottocus]

Get over it.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Hadn't notice the Chinese carry out mass rapes, tortures, killings - often in the most hideous ways imaginable of men, women and children. Often exterminating whole families for pleasure and entertainment. 

 

Even Nazis based in Nanking were horrified and repulsed. Read the book "The Rape of Nanking". That's before they got to exterminating Chinese in Singapore and their wonderful treatment of allied POW's.

 

When has China ever carried out such barbarism.

 

What's worse, they've never apologized, atoned, or even admitted it.

 

Under Mao 30 million died in the most hideous ways and some even turned to cannibalism to survive. The Chinese should be more honest about their own history.

[Grouse]

On 29/12/2016 at 2:08 PM, geriatrickid said:

China is correct. Westerners do not appreciate the tens of millions of Chinese who died because of the Japanese. Manchuria was one big slave operation.

The Europeans  also conveniently forget their rape and looting of China prior to the arrival of the Japanese. How many people know of the forcing of opium on the Chinese?This is what drives the Chinese attitude. They never intend to again be the victims of foreigners

 

Always a mistake to apply 21st century morals to a situation 200 years previously. The British were buying Chinese tea, ceramics and silk and selling opium. All sorts of appalling things were going on at the time including slavery and tobacco production. How far do you want to go back?

[Baerboxer]

20 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Under Mao 30 million died in the most hideous ways and some even turned to cannibalism to survive. The Chinese should be more honest about their own history.

 

Moa, Stalin, and all those other communist "men of the people" murdered, tortured and used all sorts of economic and social controls to keep their people enslaved. History should reflect that. 

 

Doesn't excuse the appalling Japanese crimes nor their failure to repent though.

[Baerboxer]

20 hours ago, Cook my sock said:

And the yanks helped themselves to a lot of Japanese goodies too.

Chinese love using the past as an excuse for the present

 

Er, the yanks helped themselves to the goodies the Japs thieved off the countries they ravaged. Or so the rumor goes.

[Cook my sock]

 
Er, the yanks helped themselves to the goodies the Japs thieved off the countries they ravaged. Or so the rumor goes.

A few Japanese friends have told me what happened to their grandparents possessions after the war. Anything of value that wasn't hidden was taken basically

[Baerboxer]

Just now, Cook my sock said:

A few Japanese friends have told me what happened to their grandparents possessions after the war. Anything of value that wasn't hidden was taken basically

 

Interesting as more papers become declassified and more information becomes available. I saw an article recently on how Paris, after liberation, was suffering from gangs of American deserters who acted like gangsters taking over areas and crime. 

 

Interesting when information from other allies gets declassified.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 28/12/2016 at 8:26 AM, phantomfiddler said:

But isn,t China doing in the South China Sea exactly what Japan attempted to do 80 years ago ? ie take over a large area that did not belong to them ! Hypocrites !

You do realise that Japan carried out mass murder in the Far East during World War Two ?  Japan might have killed even more people than Germany did in Europe during World War Two.

How many British servicemen died fighting against Japan ?  How many died fighting against Germany ? What about the Americans who died fighting against Japan ?


And what is China doing today ?  Have they killed anybody by doing their claim to owning the South China Sea ? No.
Has China killed anybody in South East Asia ?  Countries like Thailand and the Philipinnes are well in with China. They're actually hoping to get flooded by even more Chinese tourists.

How can anybody say that China is doing what Japan did, eighty years ago ????

 

[Cook my sock]

Countries like Thailand actually hoping to get flooded by even more Chinese tourists.

How can anybody say that China is doing what Japan did, eighty years ago ????

 

To answer both

If you read the news..they certainly do not

Yes, what the Chinese leaders did 20 yrs later