Ministry of Transport responds to tragic van crash

[Gold Star]

3 hours ago, z42 said:

A speed limiter that is attached to the engine, and that is fully tamper proof is the only way these foolish ape drivers will slow down.

Speed limiters will cause even more deaths as passing will become longer and more deadly as the vehicle sputters reaching it's limit, and can't complete the pass. Don't think they will stop trying to pass vehicles because of a speed limiter.

[rott]

Mr budgen I ihought I was commenting on a post by JAFO. Yes I am right. 

 

But in answer to you, nobody does expect anything different but that does not mean people should not comment on the problem. Can't walk around all the time hearing no evil, seeing no evil and speaking no logic and common sense.

[electric]

Couple of comments about this horrible smash.

 

1 - I still find it absolutely bizarre that seatbelts are required for the front passengers of pickups, yet it's ok for 10 people to sit unrestrained in the back tray. Even in a low speed crash, these people become missiles, then statistics. A simple change of law could fix this. No doubt it would be hugely unpopular, but junta's can easily enact such laws without any voter backlash.

 

Yes, I know ... probably seatbelts would not have saved anybody in this tragedy, but outlawing people in the back tray may save some lives next time.

 

2 - My entire working career was in public road transport in Oz before coming to Thailand. As a direct result of several tragic coach collisions during the 90's, a sweeping overhaul of passenger transport regulations Nationally was enacted. The industry hated it, but as with all things, we got used to it over time.

 

Transport companies nationally were forced by legislation to shoulder ALL the responsibility for the safety of their operations. Individual drivers were seen as just a small cog in the big wheel. It was a monumental change for the industry, which had previously been "self regulating" to a point. A nationwide Accreditation Scheme was mandatory if your company wanted to carry paying passengers.

 

Vehicle maintenance, depot facilities, driver training and licencing, route scheduling, financial viability of the company, etc etc  all required very detailed and extensive auditable paperwork trails. If the paperwork failed a random audit by Transport Dept, your Accreditation was revoked, vehicles parked up, drivers told "don't come Monday"

 

It cleaned out the "cowboy operators" quite quickly. A lot of dodgy operations were dobbed in by legit operators.

 

So .... basically I'm saying here .... it really should start with the management of the van companies. There is no excuse to send out a vehicle with a tired, inexperienced or cowboy driver ... or a vehicle that "the brakes failed Boss."

 

Some form of Accreditation and enforcement is required in LOS. Sadly nothing will really improve without it, and perhaps even more sadder, I guess it'll never happen.

 

I confess that I don't know too much about the industry here in Thailand. I'd like to know how it works, as it's in my blood, but the language thing is an insurmountable obstacle for me.

 

I don't know how many more horrible van and coach crashes occur before the Authorities react, but it's clear to all of us, something really does have to change. This is ridiculous carnage on an industrial scale, and the "policy makers" really have to step up to the plate here and make a difference.

 

My apologies this post is so long, but this topic saddens me to see an industry seemingly unable to acknowledge that customer safety is their prime responsibility.

 

 

[Don Mega]

So a GPS tracker would have prevented this ?

[Rc2702]

3 hours ago, fruitman said:

 

They sit in tents right next to the roads...only problem is they never come out, even not during cool temperatures. But why should they come out? They get paid anyway......

How true is that. It's ridiculous and yet so true. 

[catinthehat]

4 hours ago, clockman said:

Sack the transport minister and transport police officer. Start at the top! The only way to change things in Thailand.

Best we can ever hope for is a brief visit to the land of inactive posts. Totally irresponsible and unaccountable government.

 

But what if their family members were involved? Oh silly me they would never travel with the unwashed.

[David Walden]

I'm sure there are many experiences like my recent shopping trip from Cha-am to Hue Hin.  When will they ever learn,  when will they ever learn (Peter Paul and Mary)...la,la,la

I'm very much enjoying my stay in Thailand and for the last 6 weeks but I have made the motorbike journey on a Monday Cha-am to Hue Hin and return. This week I handed my motor bike back and decided the catch the mini bus too and from Hue Hin.

The Cha-am to Hue Hin leg had its moments like one passenger with child next to me they wanted to get off about half way. So from the middle lane travelling about 120kph she calls stop!!! So across 3 lanes we stop in the motorbike lane (far left), smoke coming from the tyres we stop. Me being polite and having the middle seat, I stand up so the lady can get by me to get OFF only to find I am on my head upside down in the seat in front. As the driver had gone past the bus stop, after stopping he suddenly reversed at full throttle about 50kph for about 300 metres. A bit of pride lost managed to smile. This apparently normal in Thailand.

THE RETURN TRIP TO CHA-AM...I believe it is one of the silliest things I have ever done in my life is to take this trip. it's about 25km. The forward trip bad enough but the return trip for this Toyota Mini Bus even in heavy traffic going from inside to outside lane repeatedly was always at full throttle. Starting in 2nd gear, gear changers were only made at maximum revs, motor screaming!  Not a single vehicle passed us on this trip every vehicle in front of us we passed like they were standing still. There was one moment when a group of young lads in a large pickup played a game with us but gave up when we hit 140kph. On the straight sections once out of town the vehicle was on maximum revs and sat on 140kph. On approaching Cha-am the bus changed lanes at least 10 times at high speed until a great moment in my life when I arrived at the Cha-am bus stop ALIVE.

BUT THIS IS THAILAND

Edited January 3, 2017 by David Walden
selling mistake

[quadperfect]

Sad sight.

Anyone can see the minivans are death mobiles. I hate these things.

I think its about 4 mini vans to 1 car in in phuket.

Do something about it thailand.

[masuk]

5 hours ago, clockman said:

Sack the transport minister and transport police officer. Start at the top! The only way to change things in Thailand.

Well, it certainly made the international news.   ABC TV news Australia even mentioned the fact that Thailand is the 2nd most hazardous country in the world to drive in.

[David Walden]

1 hour ago, Don Mega said:

So a GPS tracker would have prevented this ?

Perhaps yes, it may be a start? as it is all is hopeless.

[JAFO]

1 hour ago, rott said:

But in answer to you, nobody does expect anything different but that does not mean people should not comment on the problem. Can't walk around all the time hearing no evil, seeing no evil and speaking no logic and common sense.

 

Its one thing to comment constructively but another with silly one liner diatribe. Does that make people feel better?  If you just start at the beginning of any accident thread posted on this site and read the comments quickly one right after another its pretty pathetic what many people come up with.

 

But Hey, its forum life on Soap Opera TVF.  

[metisdead]

A post with and overly derogatory comment toward Thailand has been removed. 

[Don Mega]

21 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Perhaps yes, it may be a start? as it is all is hopeless.

how would it have prevented this ?

[paulchiangmai]

4 hours ago, JAFO said:

I have a question to the posters in these Thailand accident threads, do you all go on and on like this with cynical one-liners about the tragic deaths in your home countries as well or does Thailand get your exclusive comments on how terrible it is here? 

 

Sadly and tragically automobile deaths happen every day everywhere in the world due to either poor drivers or drunks(especially around this time of year). The US has these types of senseless deaths even with steep fines, jail time etc. It is extremely difficult to police. I used to be a volunteer fireman/EMS and would see wrecks like these and I always wondered how but you add alcohol and those individuals better judgment got worse and worse with every sip.  

The difference is other countries do something unlike here where nothing is ever done to ease the problem. Over xmas / new year I drove over 2,000 k's to Se Saket from Chiang Mai seeing only two manned check points, neither of whom were stopping anyone. I expected nothing else and was not disapointed.

[rott]

JAFO you spoke of people complaining about senseless events here, blaming the PM etc., but ignoring similar events at home.

 

You are ignoring the fact that there are more senseless events here, which is directly due to lack of respect for the laws and lack of law enforcement. The responsibility for this lies at the top.

[Jim walker]

Only 25 killed in one crash so nothing need change its business as usual stroll on the Songkran  and a few more crashes like this will smash all the fatalities records of previous years, it’s the mind-set and skill levels that kill all these people on the roads in Thailand or dare I say it stupidity of most Thai drivers, who have so little self-control of their actions me in the front must pass regardless of consequence’s.  

[electric]

2 hours ago, Don Mega said:

So a GPS tracker would have prevented this ?

 

47 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

how would it have prevented this ?

 

Don .... I think some readers are possibly misunderstanding the reference to GPS here, and how it could be utilised to improve safety in vans, coaches and trucks.

 

Very sophisticated in-vehicle digital log books are quite common now in reputable transport companies. The vehicle data is transmitted via satellite in real time to the company HQ. The scope of vehicle info collected is quite staggering.

 

GPS location, vehicle speed at any given time (hence useful for determining how many rest stops), engine RPM, gear changes, oil pressures, fuel economy, brake applications,  etc etc. It's pretty awesome info really.

 

Operations Managers at the depot use this printed info when debriefing drivers, either to give them a pat on the back for a "good read out" , or a tongue lashing if the info has indicated speeding, over revving, not enough rest stops etc.

 

I know many drivers who have been sacked back at the depot because they displayed ongoing poor driving habits that were only truly revealed after downloading the GPS digital vehicle log. My transport company in Oz operated on the "2 strikes, and you're out" system.

 

If van companies here used similiar technology, ie. weeding out habitual bad drivers before they become statistics, then that's a very positive step forward.

 

So .... I'm hoping Thai Transport guys are meaning GPS digital vehicle log, rather than just a simple GPS plotter, which I agree would be fairly useless. See my Post#63

 

[JAFO]

1 hour ago, paulchiangmai said:

The difference is other countries do something unlike here where nothing is ever done to ease the problem. Over xmas / new year I drove over 2,000 k's to Se Saket from Chiang Mai seeing only two manned check points, neither of whom were stopping anyone. I expected nothing else and was not disapointed.

 

Interesting. I went through 6 check points on Jan 1 from Lampang to Korat. In fact I was telling my wife I was surprised how many there were. She said they were checking for all sorts of stuff.

 

I do not think Thailand is not attempting to do anything, If they were not doing anything they wouldn't have drunk check points which I see in many major cities. They are publicly making people aware by posting and reminding people to avoid the 7 days just like the US does with the Avoid the 13 (Even now in the US they still arrest thousands even with all the heavy fines, jail time and insurance rate tripling).Thailand does have fines and they do make people stay in jail for 48 hours. These kinds of society paradigm shifts do not happen over night. I remember as a kid in late 70's and through the 80's loads of drunk driving deaths where I lived in the US. In fact I remember a few incidents when I was very young and my dad was flat plastered and he got pulled over and the cop just said "Go straight home". Later came MADD and then it took off with further activities in the government. This process will take time. Whinging westerners on TVF aren't going to make a bit of difference. 

 

 

[elgordo38]

6 hours ago, farcanell said:

 

And I'm wondering why they bother having a ministry for transport, at all.

Its a facadial society one notch past the feudal system. 

[Classic Ray]

Hierarchical importance. Van passengers and pick up passengers rank only slightly above pedestrians and motorcyclists who rank far below cars, luxury cars, trucks and  buses (in order of size).

 

Until several general's children are fatally involved in one of these collisions there will be no interest from the government in spending any money to reduce the carnage. But meanwhile they will bleat about crackdowns and campaigns and call press conferences to maintain face.

[elliss]

5 hours ago, Don Mega said:

So a GPS tracker would have prevented this ?

 

    NO ,   Speeding to  be  number  one fastest  driver,

gaining  peer credit , and  favour from big boss .

     Thai macho , lives on . 

[Basil B]

11 hours ago, steve187 said:

is it that hard to police one group of public service vehicles,  so so easy a police car/man sees a mini bus doing something that draws his attention to it, so he stops the vehicle and checks it out, amount of passengers, gps, etc etc, happens all the time in other countries.

 

Others countries is not Thailand...

 

My thoughts are every company that runs busses and lorries should have to have a transport manager responsible for ensuring the fleet of vehicles is legal, and the drivers do not exceed safe working hours.

thus they could be held criminally responsible for accidents where the vehicles are poorly maintained or the drivers over worked, etc. they should be fined &/or loose their operators licences for problems with vehicles under their charge. 

[Tonawatchee]

That's right, check to see if the GPS is working. No doubt the Minister of Transportation sees an important link there to the cause of the crash. Never mind whether or not traffic laws are in place or being enforced.  

[FredNL]

The only way to prevent these deaths is that Thailand stops selling petrol, diesel, LPG and NGV.

Back to the buffalo !!!

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by FredNL

[maoro2013]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

The incident has also prompted the Ministry of Transport to order an inspection of every public transport vehicle before departure and for strict watch over the driving behavior of operators. 

How will they manage this?? Will need to recruit thousands of checkers, and departure from where?

[ocddave]

The only response I have seen is that the government seems to be censoring cable TV channels (nhk) that have any mention of this accident. Now that's action!

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[Michael8511]

It's a very tragic accident, don't know if it could have been prevented?

the police should pay more attention to all minivans speeding on the roads, give heafty fines or reworked their licenses so they learn once for all. Today it's do easy for them to just give a few bills and they can do what they want. I think it's time for the police to enforse all traffic rules from motorbikes on side walks, helmuts, speeding. The only time you see them is when they run out of coffee money and take a few bikes. 

[tominbkk]

The only police I saw out this last week were at the bribe generating roadblocks.  That was the few days leading up to NY.  Making money for the boss I guess, plus a little cut for themselves.  Then from NY on they all disappeared.  Just saw a cop this morning.  Horrible little mafia they are, don't give a damn about citizens.

[kiwikeith]

21 hours ago, Clamhua said:

That's a pretty pathetic response to 25 deaths telling the authorities to do their job...

 

Vans should also be equipped with fire extinguishers and a good driver.