1FinickyOne Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 50 minutes ago, smotherb said: I rail against sin sot. In my culture the bride's parents fork-over the assets to the groom; it's called a dowry. So, why should I have to play Thai custom, why can’t the bride’s parents abide by my custom and pay me? Or better yet, why don’t we simply allow the two cultures to cancel each other out? Cultural difference is not my real problem with sin sot. I see a logical problem. To me, sin sot is no different than a bar fine. You pay papasan or mamasan for the girl in a bar fine and you pay papa and mama for the girl in sin sot. Both actions allow you to take the girl home and have sex with her. Of course, sin sot is intended to be permanent. If the bar fine customer wants to keep the girl longer; he needs to pay a permanent bar fine. The permanent bar fine costs more and increases if the girl is especially gifted in looks, body, age or capabilities--quite similar to education, social status, age and looks in sin sot pricing. However, as you know the dowry has lost Western cultural acceptance due to modern societal changes. I think the Thais have begun to realize that societal change. It is quite common for the bride's parents to just give the sin sot back to the groom or to only make a statement that the groom paid sin-sot without any actual transfer of assets. Of course, it helps if the groom gives the bride some jewelry as a showpiece--sound familiar guys, like an engagement ring in Western society. Well, as I keep saying, if you meet and marry in your country or just marry there, then your customs should be observed - if here, then the other way. I think you and your lovely bride have a choice of what culture you would like to adopt. There is choice. I hope nobody has a gun to either of your heads... It is interesting that you and others make comparisons using bar girls. Maybe you are starting out with a lack of respect for someone who is not a bar girl. And yes, as you mentioned, guys buy expensive rocks for a Western lady and seem to hold pride in giving a big one [compensating for?]... and they do buy houses for their Western wives [and them] to live in and give them monthly money to let them run the household and many will tell you at the end that they got hosed in a divorce settlement - - but when it comes to taking care of their Thai wives, it seems that some of these people on the forum fall into a total cheapness that is truly unkind... I can't help but think that if people treated their Thai wives w/more kindness, they might have a better experience... I get pretty tired of these "accusations" - Thai ladies like money!!! - as if other people don't? Even Bill gates and Warren Buffett want more money than they have... not quite universal, but near everyone wants more money... and if a 60 yr old guy is lucky enough to have a wife half his age, of course there is going to be a financial security aspect. This is no secret... is it? But what does bother me, is the meanness. Some of the guys on this forum are filled with hatred for Thai ladies.. Do you think they don't notice? Do you think they don't respond accordingly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dentonian Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 In the words of Forest Gump 'Stupid is as stupid does' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optad Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Split with a girl ten years ago, over other issues. we are still good friends today. However she quickly met and married a Danish fellow. Nice guy > big lump of a bloke but good hearted. Nungnoo rang to say she wanted to catch up, which we did and she proceeded to let the sin sod arrangements fly. 300,000 cash and 10 baht gold. She was embarrassed but excited at the same time. Telling me mind you. All this directly came from her mother and she had no choice. Asked her mother to drop the price but ma said no dice. Did not get it from me, the mother was going to get it from the dane. Bride just wanted the Denmark ticket. No feeling about this. It was business. That money did not come back to the groom/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 52 minutes ago, kenk24 said: Well, as I keep saying, if you meet and marry in your country or just marry there, then your customs should be observed - if here, then the other way. I think you and your lovely bride have a choice of what culture you would like to adopt. There is choice. I hope nobody has a gun to either of your heads... It is interesting that you and others make comparisons using bar girls. Maybe you are starting out with a lack of respect for someone who is not a bar girl. And yes, as you mentioned, guys buy expensive rocks for a Western lady and seem to hold pride in giving a big one [compensating for?]... and they do buy houses for their Western wives [and them] to live in and give them monthly money to let them run the household and many will tell you at the end that they got hosed in a divorce settlement - - but when it comes to taking care of their Thai wives, it seems that some of these people on the forum fall into a total cheapness that is truly unkind... I can't help but think that if people treated their Thai wives w/more kindness, they might have a better experience... I get pretty tired of these "accusations" - Thai ladies like money!!! - as if other people don't? Even Bill gates and Warren Buffett want more money than they have... not quite universal, but near everyone wants more money... and if a 60 yr old guy is lucky enough to have a wife half his age, of course there is going to be a financial security aspect. This is no secret... is it? But what does bother me, is the meanness. Some of the guys on this forum are filled with hatred for Thai ladies.. Do you think they don't notice? Do you think they don't respond accordingly? Not sure if you were addressing just my post or every other post on this thread; you ramble on so. You did say, "It is interesting that you and others make comparisons using bar girls." I use that comparison and see it as quite obvious. In sin sot, the parents are asking for money so you can have one of their daughters. In bar fine, the bar owners are asking for money so you can have one of their girls. I reiterate, the comparison is quite obvious to me. Then you say, "Maybe you are starting out with a lack of respect for someone who is not a bar girl." How do you read that I have a lack of respect for someone NOT a bar girl? Furthermore, your correlation to buying a house in the Western world makes little sense; that purchase can be in your name; here it cannot. Even though the female is often favored in the West, it is nowhere near the favoritism the Thai receives in such altercations here. I see nowhere I insinuated that one should not treat their wife with kindness or to support them well. I made no mention of Thai ladies liking money or that there was or was not a financial relationship involved. I simply explained why I would not pay sin sot for a bar girl or a hi-so girl. I also offered my opinion that sin sot was waning in Thai society. I know of two weddings in the last three years in which no sin sot was paid. Both ladies were young, attractive, no kids, never before married, college educated, from middle-class families and neither were nor ever had been bar girls. One of the grooms was a Thai friend of mine; the other was my son. Consequently, I know both brides and grooms well. In fact, the father of my daughter-in-law and I are good friends. He and I discussed sin sot prior to the wedding. I am sure it helped because he liked my son, but more important to him; his daughter and my son were in love. He wanted her to be happy more than he wanted some money. Sounds like a good father to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surangw Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 you always pay in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordguy61mi Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 When I got engaged she never mentioned sinsod. I didn't find out about it until I started researching thai marriage online. I asked her and she said she'd talk to her mom about it because her father had passed away. She told me her mom said she doesn't need any sinsod, just for her daughter to be happy. I think it varies family to family. My girl is 37 so maybe a young girl in her 20s might command something but either way I'd be wary about a girl that came right out of the gate like that talking about money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotheruser Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 2 hours ago, smotherb said: I rail against sin sot. In my culture the bride's parents fork-over the assets to the groom; it's called a dowry. So, why should I have to play Thai custom, why can’t the bride’s parents abide by my custom and pay me? Or better yet, why don’t we simply allow the two cultures to cancel each other out? Cultural difference is not my real problem with sin sot. I see a logical problem. To me, sin sot is no different than a bar fine. You pay papasan or mamasan for the girl in a bar fine and you pay papa and mama for the girl in sin sot. Both actions allow you to take the girl home and have sex with her. Of course, sin sot is intended to be permanent. If the bar fine customer wants to keep the girl longer; he needs to pay a permanent bar fine. The permanent bar fine costs more and increases if the girl is especially gifted in looks, body, age or capabilities--quite similar to education, social status, age and looks in sin sot pricing. However, as you know the dowry has lost Western cultural acceptance due to modern societal changes. I think the Thais have begun to realize that societal change. It is quite common for the bride's parents to just give the sin sot back to the groom or to only make a statement that the groom paid sin-sot without any actual transfer of assets. Of course, it helps if the groom gives the bride some jewelry as a showpiece--sound familiar guys, like an engagement ring in Western society. customs change when you are most likely marrying a hooker. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapskatesam Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Wow so many replies and opinions.. i'll need some time to process them all hahah Anyways i've dodged a bullet with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 13 hours ago, cheapskatesam said: no it was just a half hearted joke.. "i'll do that when i marry ya :P" thing and she got all serious about money out of the blue... Other than you BS-ing her, I don't think she was being unfair or greedy, telling you things about Thailand she knew you did not know before. It can be this way here so she told you the truth. She did not say she would marry you either, for any amount of money, so I guess she was playing with you to a little bit to. Yes! Sin Sod is still common in Thailand, and paying for the Thai Girl thus is to. For about the same reason she told you as well. It is generally this way. You are not being picked on because you come from a different country.. Thai Men generally pay Sin Sod to. The price is negotiable, but the price she quoted you is not sky high and out of the picture. I wouldn't worry about this at this point in time. If things develop between you in a normal, or even not so normal way, there is plenty of time to deal with that. Sin Sod in most cases is just a sign of respect and pride for the parents, and extra cash if they need it. If you decide to live together that is okay, but realize your Girl Friend will soon suffer a lot of internal pressure from family, to get married or move out. If you are new to Thailand and Thai Girls, the best advice I can give you is keep an open mind, and first throw out all your Western Ideals as how things should work here. As very few do. It makes me wonder how a Western Man see nothing special about spending $10,000 on a Wedding, and maybe more for a Wedding Dress his daughter will wear for only one day, then go in utter shock when he is asked to spend half this for a Sin Sod, and wedding included. Be honest with her at all times. She will highly respect that no matter what you do. Play games with her and you will learn this girl is not as stupid as you may think. That is not to say she is a Keeper, as many women all over the world are not. But by being honest you will soon learn if she is to. Your not stupid either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 14 hours ago, beachproperty said: Just tell her its farlang's custom that the wife come with a dowry. Reason being is that you will have the responsibility of taking care of her for the rest of her life. Better yet, don't meet and fall into love with a Thai Girl and just tell her you are a Cheap Charlie and you don't respect her or her customs. Then stay at home and live with that 50 year old Bitch you have been try to escape from for the past 20 years. Like the rest of the guys that like this idea so much. You may not like this idea very much, or be happy. But at least now you can be one of the Boys then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericthai Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 9 hours ago, whatproblem said: I don't need or want your advise ,I am a grown man .ive lived here 12 years ,I know the "Thai culture" bs ,it ever changing to the wants of the person ,its mostly about money ,marriage should be between 2 people and if parents wanted what's best for their daughters they would stay out of the money grabbing ,I asked what's the policy / culture when a lady marries multiple times in a village ceremony or is that a mai pen rai moment If the girl has been married before or has kids from another guy then no sid sod should be paid. I paid sin sod and it was given back to us the next day. Also after a few months her dad split up his land and gave my wife and her sisters some land. My wife was the youngest and last to get married so I guess her dad was waiting for her to get married to distribute the land. I have a few other expat friends, some paid Sin sod some didn't. My one friend didn't get any Sin Sod back. All depends on the parents. OP take your time you have so much to learn about Thailand before you start talking about marriage. Good luck and hope you have a great trip!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotheruser Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 20 minutes ago, ericthai said: If the girl has been married before or has kids from another guy then no sid sod should be paid. I paid sin sod and it was given back to us the next day. Also after a few months her dad split up his land and gave my wife and her sisters some land. My wife was the youngest and last to get married so I guess her dad was waiting for her to get married to distribute the land. I have a few other expat friends, some paid Sin sod some didn't. My one friend didn't get any Sin Sod back. All depends on the parents. OP take your time you have so much to learn about Thailand before you start talking about marriage. Good luck and hope you have a great trip!! You gave sin sod and the next day it was given back? Nobody told you it wasn't necessary? They took it to save face? Your entire post makes no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericthai Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, anotheruser said: You gave sin sod and the next day it was given back? Nobody told you it wasn't necessary? They took it to save face? Your entire post makes no sense at all. what is it that makes no sense? I got married paid Sin Sod and like in many cases it was given back the next day, which I knew we were getting it back, Yes, it was just for show to save face, like just about everything else in Thailand. The parents keeping the sin sod does happen as I stated, but in most cases it's just for show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotheruser Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) If you are okay giving large amounts of money to save face that is your choice. Sounds like a run around piece of nonsense to me.Next thing you know you will be calling an exorcist to get ghosts out of your toaster. Edited January 9, 2017 by anotheruser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 8 hours ago, kenk24 said: I have been to enough Thai/Thai weddings and there is Sin Sot as part of the ceremony. It is definitely not just for the farang. If you marry in your home country to a Thai lady that you met in your home country, then I would agree, it would be kindly to offer something to her family, but not necessary. If you marry here in Thailand, then you should pay because it is their culture and their custom. I have known Thai who needed to pay 15MM baht to marry into a wealthy family. so, not just for farang. Locally, a Thai just paid 1MM baht. I agree with JAFO in saying it should not get out of hand. I paid gladly but it was a modest amount. Yes ok but if she is ex bar no way and if she has been married before no way . i know Thais pay it , but the money you are talking about 15 mm is for hi so Thais not ex bar or poor thai family's . you see I have seen were the thai gets it 3 times because she dose not tell the new thai man she has been married before this is village Thais in issan. i for one will not get married to one and if I did I would not pay that bs just live with them no need to marry them at all to many of them to go around to think of marriage .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 8 hours ago, kovaltech said: I agree with respect ;-) , respecting does not mean that you have to agree... Yes, we can disagree with the culture from our partner in love, but if we start to disrespect it, we better go home... Not agree with the thai culture at all and the respect, well up to you but why should I respect it if I not agree with it . why do I have to go home if I don't respect it , bs I will , the same in my country lots of Muslims disrespect my culture but I don't tell them to go home up to them . we are free to do what we what in this world, it is called freedom of speech . and when you have to respect something you don't agree with then that is not freedom of speech is it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 8 hours ago, retarius said: Why on earth bother getting married? I've been with my girl 12 years and we are not married. I am the f????? Same why get married to them or any woman in the world . thai woman see it as security and free money not all but most of them like 99% of them . the sin son bs is a joke not my culture and would not pay it . the new partner now knows the rules no free money no home no land no car and if she wants that she has to work for it been told , not happy the door is open for her any time . i do take good care of her I am not a tight ass at all but not going to get married to her or pay that bs sin son NO WAY . tell me if the shoe was on the other foot and Thais had shit loads of money would a thai pay you sin son or be with a man from the west no way , all of us are joking our selfs if we believe Thais go with us because of love . it is a game to them but you have to play the game a lot better then them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepinthailand Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I see no problem in observing the customs of another country. Having been started as I belive as a bit of a tounge in cheek let's get the Thai girl hate brigade out in force post. It seems it has had the desired effect and the ever present Faithfull have yet again not disappointed with thete biased on sided views of there so called experiance. Good job really that tv only accounts for a very small % of the real expats in thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 13 hours ago, mikiea said: huh ?..... man up a lttle would ya fritz ? Read his other posts boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roo860 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 The skin-tones of those pictured do not appear to be hi-so.Perhaps they've just been on holiday.[emoji102] Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovaltech Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 11 hours ago, smotherb said: I know Thais who dislike sin sot and do not pay it. Should they go to? The first part was addressed to the writer, the second part to those who disrespect Thai culture, so ... whoever fits the shoe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovaltech Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 6 hours ago, georgemandm said: we are free to do what we what in this world, it is called freedom of speech . and when you have to respect something you don't agree with then that is not freedom of speech is it . Respectfully but that is BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwinfc Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 14 hours ago, amykat said: Why would you even talk about it at all? Do you discuss your wedding plans with any dates at this point? How you will raise your children? What diaper brands you prefer? If you don't agree at this point, she will simply LIE her ass off , duh, have you ever been in Thailand?? quit being hysterical. no man talks about diapers and raising children while dating or even right after getting married. my point is for the OP to simply test the woman by sharing his thoughts on dowry. true, she may lie her ass off. if the OP can't (or won't) see through it, then it's his choice. he has been warned. and yes, i have been to thailand - at least 30 times in the past 15 years. so yes, i know a thing or two about thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LannaGuy Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Just now, kovaltech said: Respectfully but that is BS Respectfully you are more 'Thai' than most Thais I know. Nothing worse than a farang neo-Thai who just views it all through their rose-coloured 'Farang-rak-Thai' glasses. Reality is Thailand is a great but immature country run on superstition and greed decorated as 'culture' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwinfc Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 7 hours ago, anotheruser said: If you are okay giving large amounts of money to save face that is your choice. Sounds like a run around piece of nonsense to me.Next thing you know you will be calling an exorcist to get ghosts out of your toaster. in the end, it's none of your business what ericthai and his parents-in-law did. it may not make sense to you, but believe it or not returning/not taking the sinsod is as common as padthai and tomyum. what you often hear are rants from farangs who got ripped off because they got their "high quality" brides from all the "right places". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovaltech Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, LannaGuy said: Respectfully you are more 'Thai' than most Thais I know. Nothing worse than a farang neo-Thai who just views it all through their rose-coloured 'Farang-rak-Thai' glasses. Reality is Thailand is a great but immature country run on superstition and greed decorated as 'culture' "Nothing worse than a farang neo-Thai" ? "Thailand is a great but immature country run on superstition and greed decorated as 'culture'" ? Respect... but i slightly differ from your opinion ... immature ? imo the best example for immature would be the new pres- elect from the imo most fantastic country in the world ( But thats my opinion, those are not facts ) greed ? Look outside Thailand... plenty more Those comparing lists and stereotyping of people... Lets all live happy and.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Well...you can also get her knocked up. That has a way of tipping the scales in your favor sometimes. Not always. But it is near impossible to get out of sin sod entirely. Especially if it's her first marriage. Lots has been written about people experiences with it. Not hard to find some essays about it on line. It is a tradition. But it has been bastaridizzed to death and has captured many morons. Guys paying huge amounts for bargirls. Women with kids. Women who make a living off of getting married and collecting houses and lifesavings. Lots of cases where the family just want there daughter happy so put up the entire face saving amount. Many cases where a huge amount is demanded as to prevent the marriage as well. I have never paid it. Been married here twice. Once I actually did end up paying it in the form of being ripped off and lied to for over a decade. Each case is different. But it is up to you to do your due diligence. Cause if you don't. It can come back over and over and fester. My current gf of three years couldn't careless about it. Nor could her family. Stupid tradition sure. But easier to defeat than a US divorce court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahab Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 As the lawyers I currently work with answer whenever I ask a legal question the answer always is .... "it depends". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LannaGuy Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 22 minutes ago, kovaltech said: "Nothing worse than a farang neo-Thai" ? "Thailand is a great but immature country run on superstition and greed decorated as 'culture'" ? Respect... but i slightly differ from your opinion ... immature ? imo the best example for immature would be the new pres- elect from the imo most fantastic country in the world ( But thats my opinion, those are not facts ) greed ? Look outside Thailand... plenty more Those comparing lists and stereotyping of people... Lets all live happy and.... well ok maybe it's a bit over stereotyping but I know Thailand pretty well and have many Thai friends and I was talking 'generally' and 'generally' I remain unimpressed with the Thai character - nice though some are - but 'generally' they are pretty dishonest and selfish and, back on-topic, they are rarely to be trusted and indulged. Thais often use 'Thai style' and 'Thai culture' as a cover-up for selfishness and dishonesty 'oh this is Thailand' to excuse it. Yes I have doubts about USA's choice but at least they HAD ONE but that's a different subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LannaGuy Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, NickJ said: Well...you can also get her knocked up. That has a way of tipping the scales in your favor sometimes. Not always. But it is near impossible to get out of sin sod entirely. Especially if it's her first marriage. Lots has been written about people experiences with it. Not hard to find some essays about it on line. It is a tradition. But it has been bastaridizzed to death and has captured many morons. Guys paying huge amounts for bargirls. Women with kids. Women who make a living off of getting married and collecting houses and lifesavings. Lots of cases where the family just want there daughter happy so put up the entire face saving amount. Many cases where a huge amount is demanded as to prevent the marriage as well. I have never paid it. Been married here twice. Once I actually did end up paying it in the form of being ripped off and lied to for over a decade. Each case is different. But it is up to you to do your due diligence. Cause if you don't. It can come back over and over and fester. My current gf of three years couldn't careless about it. Nor could her family. Stupid tradition sure. But easier to defeat than a US divorce court. A friend of mine married a farang (from USA) and he refused to pay so I had to lend her the 'sin sod' which she gave back the next day! crazy but true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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