"We're not fleecing customers - it's just market forces" say budget airlines

[humqdpf]

7 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Try weighing your baggage before you go to the airport! I rather doubt that the check-in attendant was ecstatic at the extra work you had caused her.

Perhaps she was not ecstatic about the extra work but she would be ecstatic about the extra commission she earned by catching you with more KG.

 

If you think that Air Asia is bad, you should try Ryanair next time you happen to be in Europe. They make Air Asia on a bad day look really good!

[rijb]

3 hours ago, bkk75 said:

People seem to forget flying is a luxury.  If you can't afford to fly take alternative transportation.

 

Water Wings?

[DieterWiehe]

3 hours ago, uptoyoumyfriend said:

i fly to cambodia and back from chiang mai,usually for around 120$ rt ,these are promos,of course,but they cannot live on that.

is there no ttrain service from the south?

 

Trains don't fly the lines are partly submerged

 

[jaygino]

Does anyone thing one one of the budget European carriers such as Ryan Air or German Wings be any different.  They are all companies trying to make as much profit as possible - Morals dont enter the equation for any of them.

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

tickets are still dead cheap

For the rich that is. 

[Dakhar]

4 hours ago, sahibji said:

for the poor guy whose house is under water or the farmer whose crops have been washed away by floods? dead cheap?

 

 

sure it is, try driving a car that distance for 3K

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, Mickmouse1 said:

exploiting the opportunity capitalising on passengers misery

Guess that is why they call it capitalism. 

[elgordo38]

Whats the big deal sheeple should be used to being fleeced shorn.

[GAZZPA]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

tickets are still dead cheap

Not really, remember where we are right now..

 

Might seem ok to most foreigners who arguably have higher income then local Thais but to Thai people 3500 baht is a lot of money.

 

Also, in Europe it is cheaper for EU travel then it is for domestic travel here in many cases, how is that so considering the cost of fuel? Yes peak season travel is higher but we are surely out of new year return ticket high prices by now,,, its the 10th Januray. So, I can see why the airlines are being accused of taking advantage of the situation, I would not be surprised if it is true, looks to be that way.

[hobz]

As long as airlines are competing for customers and not colluding to fix prices then it's all ok. 

 

When will more airlines fly to Koh Samui? Flights to Samui are horribly overpriced due to monopoly 

Edited January 10, 2017 by hobz

[blazes]

3 hours ago, cromagnon said:

Actually this price rise due to increased demand is fine with me.  If people don't like it, they can drive...or walk!  What I really don't like about budget airlines is: how these budget airlines cram you into sardine-size seats.  Good luck if you have a fat or smelly person next to you in one of these seats.  Budget airlines rarely get gate assignments at airports causing you to have to get buses to and from the gates, long departure delays, CHARGES for assigning you a seat (as if you have the option of sitting on a wing or the top of the fuselage), force-feeding you some type of insurance when you make a booking even though you declined it, charging for luggage and even carry-ons, sales gimmicks which ruin the peace and quiet during a flight.  Etc etc etc etc etc.  These budget airlines are best avoided unless you are on a very strict budget.  Even then, by the time you add the fees, even the ones you declined but were force-fed to you, there is not much savings at all.  These unscrupulous airlines know that a large percentage of customers will NOT take the time (usually an hour or so, assuming you are not disconnected, to even wait for a customer service rep) to get on the phone to reverse a charge for $5.  Avoid budget airlines if at all possible.  This is definitely one area where the maxim is true: you get what you pay for.

 

Excellent.  Good to see, finally, someone talking sense on this not very difficult topic.  Those who point out that you are often forced to take an option are illustrating the fact that most of the pricing of budget airlines has nothing to do with supply and demand, but with the bottom line or "margin'" (the polite word for PROFIT).

[blazes]

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

 

Actually it does.. Nature abhors a vacuum.. Things migrate to resource rich environments.. 

 

The fact that market forces emulates natural tendency is precisely why it works and balances. 

 

You mean like, for example, the Middle East to Germany???

[blazes]

2 hours ago, Yann55 said:

Quote : Air Asia and Nok Air said that the rise in ticket prices is a natural result of market forces and supply and demand.

 

It's interesting to see how two big capitalist companies strive to convey the notion that the 'market' is made of 'forces' that are 'natural', because the clear implication here is that nothing can be done against it.

 

Finance and economy have totally overpowered political forces nowadays, and that's a global fact (with China the huge exception, with no less huge consequences to come). Politicians with 'left' leanings are emasculated and those on the conservative side can brag loudly because they know by now how totally they've won the game.

 

Because of that situation, democracies everywhere are now officially a puppet-show. They are like bottles of wine whose content has been replaced while keeping the same label. On the stage of that puppet show, different opinions are expressed, elections are held, national assemblies hold heated debates etc. but the only thing that counts is who runs the show ... and obviously it's not the puppets.

 

Hearing companies (and big ones at that) pretending that they can't do anything is a climax in irony, in addition to being a gigantic lie. As if the director of the puppet-theater tried to make us believe that he has no control over what goes on on stage ...

 

Precisely.   And, btw, it's great to see someone writing excellent and correct English (on ThaiVisa).

[Ricardo]

todlad

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ID: 42   Posted 3 hours ago · Report post

5 hours ago, Ricardo said:

...  and taking-advantage of customers would be un-Thai, wouldn't it !

 

Another unwarranted dig at Thailand and Thai people.

 

Low cost airlines are a joke but if you are able to book well in advance you can come out feeling reasonably happy.

 

I have used both of the airlines mentioned here and i have to say i use Air Asia only as a last resort. Low cost should not mean low service. The last flight i took to KL saw no crew at the door saying goodbye: one crew member was near the door but he was browsing on his phone already so far too busy for the likes of you and me.

 

I understand the low cost principle: start with a low cost base and then generate more revenue as a passenger demands more services. Many airlines in this sector have low base fares, not Air Asia IN MY EXPERIENCE. I do always feel fleeced when i travel with them.

 

Here is something to think about: seat occupancy rates on the routes i fly on are always 100% +/- 1 or 2%. In that case, whilst i understand the hypothesis of supply and demand, it is a bit disingenuous of these airlines to increase prices when they can already sell every seat.

 

 

I,m sorry you think my dig is unwarrented, I disagree, one sometimes does encounter this sort of thing here.

 

For example yesterday I booked a return-ticket with Air Asia, mid-week flexible-on-timing/dates and 10-months-ahead, in a current Sale which they had promised tickets from B390 one-way.  Even after spending 10-minutes to find how to delete all the unwanted-services & charges, it still cost me B1,222 + 3% extra from my credit-card provider, so I think that was misleading advertising.

 

A ticket for my wife 11-months-ahead, on another route where loads are often as low as 50%, but with a baggage-allowance (of 20 kgs minimum when she only needed 10 kgs), was similarly going to cost her over B1k each-way, so she abandoned the idea.

 

That's two real-life experiences, with a Thai LCC and in a Sale, in the past 24-hours alone. Perhaps my cynicism has more basis in fact, than either of us likes to adnit ? 

 

Of course we can always vote with our feet, but I'd prefer a little more honesty, in the airlines' marketing-promotions. That's a dig against Thai airlines, fair or unjustified, others can make up their own minds on.

 

 

[Thaidream]

This is the biggest bunch of baloney I have ever read- market forces etc. The fact is that Southern Thailand is in a flood situation which is considered an emergent situation for many.  People are trying to leave the area because of the flood and need air transport to many different places to be able to do it. Driving; using other transportation and even walking which one poster mentioned very curtly is not an option. It is clear the airlines are taking advantage of people who are leaving under these circumstances and need to be taken to account for their selfish and greedy actions.

This is the same situation that often occurs in other countries when there is a natural disaster such as a flood when all of a sudden gas pries increase; the cost of bottled water triples and other basic necessities get grossly inflated. It is pure greed and has nothing to do with market forces; capitalism or Democracy. The Government needs to step in now-with a hammer in the way of a huge fine.

[Si Thea01]

No, not fleecing, just outright thievery.  Flew last week Udon Thani to Don Muang, cost B560, booked return trip the same time, same day, cost, B2900, total B3460.  In October last year, same trip, B1560.

 

Many people flying, sure but then they still had empty seats, at least a dozen on both journeys.  The high season, just another excuse to stick it up the general public.  How they can look people in the face and tell them so many lies always amazes me.  But then they are practiced, aren't they? 

[Get Real]

How fun to hear everybody talking nonsense again.

Off course prices go up and down on different periods of the year. When people fly much, all airlines all over the world raise their prices.
Why most people that comment have special needs to make this a Thai thing as usual.

IMO it should be cheeper to buy a ticket far in advance, instead of like people think that they can get a special rate if they buy 1 hour before.
I am sure that the airlines think the same too. If people book in advance they have time to plan and know their costs. When people buy quick before the flight goes they get more work to do quick too.

I have never heard of a cheap flight during high season, same with hotel rooms and same all over the tourist sector. That is definately not a Thai thing. It´s the same all over the world.

Maybe it´s just me, but it would actually be fantastic with an intelligent thread for once in a while.

[Redline]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

 

 

There you go then, they all agree...

 

Agreed not to disagree...

There is so much competition now, the airlines are realizing that none of them are going to make as much as they want to.

[Thaidream]

While prices may rise during a 'high' season- the situation in Southern Thailand is considered emergent due to flooding. Even if the Airlines would normally raise prices- it is obvious they are taking advantage of a difficult situation by not allowing any type of price choice or bringing in extra equipment to give more seats and thus lower prices. In times of en emergency- corporations need to be good community members and help the community respond.  I  would rather do business with a company/airline that provides an added community service during a time of need rather than exploit a situation so they can make some extra money. It's called greed and many business entitites all over the World practice it daily.

[paulbj2]

The price of airline seats is largely determined by computer systems these days and is based mostly on demand on a particular route, generally, along with percentage of capacity sold on a particular flight. Pricing policy and thus system behaviour varies from airline to airline. Thus, if demand is high because of the flooding, then, without human intervention, the systems will deliver high ticket prices because that is what they are programmed to do! This has nothing to do with profiteering, it is simply the way that systems are designed to operate.

 

Another thing that the general public may not be aware of, is the fact that many airlines, probably the overwhelming majority of airlines on busy routes sell more tickets than there are seats on the aircraft. An airline, for which I worked years ago, had an artificial intelligence system that combined data from many different sources including weather reports, daily traffic density and road works, known reliability details of regular passengers (certain passengers are more apt to cancel or no-show than others depending on what they do for a living, where they have to come from and so on) and a whole host of other variables to arrive at a "calculated oversell percentage"; that is to say the percentage beyond 100% capacity in each class that the airline could sell that would be covered by no-shows and last minute cancellations. This is less of an issue in Economy but very big money in Business Class and First Class where tickets are being sold at premium prices. This is why it is not uncommon for passengers to be asked if they will accept a later flight, financial compensation, an upgrade, a huge stack of air miles or any combination of those not to fly on a particular service. The overbooking system got it slightly wrong and there are more passengers hoping to board than than seats on the aircraft!

 

The accuracy of the predictions of this system was quite phenomenal, more than 95% correct and it was well worth the airline compensating the odd passenger very generously as the extra profits they generated by using it more than covered the compensation.

 

A copy of that system cost $10 million back in the 1990s, if you were a competitor airline. When the big alliances where put together, the one thing every airline wanted was the right to buy a copy of that system.

Edited January 10, 2017 by paulbj2

[FitnessHealthTravel]

Of course they're fleecing. I remember having to pay USS$800 to fly Phuket to Singapore when the Bangkok Airport was shut because of the Yellow shirts. If I didn't I was going to lose a non refundable on going fare. Thanks to Tiger Airlines. <deleted>.kers!!!

[Thaidream]

A computer is a machine controlled by a person. I cannot tell you the number of times that a company has told me they cannot do anything about an issue because 'the computer will not allow it".  Absolute BS.  I understand very well how the airline systems work - however- with a human intervention- the prices at this time can be stabilized at a much lower level to assist people fleeing the flooding to reach their destination. The airlines can bring in more equipment to also ease the backlog. No one is asking for free seats- just a little compassionate pricing. It's called being a good corporate citizen,

[gchurch259]

I have had this same BS, there should be a published rate for flying and hotels an should remain regardless of supply and demand. Examples, Singapore, I was and had be en this hotel over 35 days on business, a convention came to to wn and they wanted to raise the rate for next five days by $125.00 a day.

 

SFO a one of my favorite hotel chains, five days at $105.00, then they wanted $195.00 for next three days, moved to another hotel.

 

The "Ole Stick it to them trick" ! 

 

Yes, greed is a World Wide problem !!

[wakeupplease]

6 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

Greedy, criminals basta***... Govt should investigate 

and fine them heavily 

For a minute I thought you where saying that about the Government

but you would be right on both counts

[SunsetT]

5 hours ago, russius said:

Fleecing customers is part of AirAsia's business plan. Next, they will charge for using the 'john'.

.....Soon to merge with Ryanair.....

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

This is the biggest bunch of baloney I have ever read- market forces etc. The fact is that Southern Thailand is in a flood situation which is considered an emergent situation for many.  People are trying to leave the area because of the flood and need air transport to many different places to be able to do it. Driving; using other transportation and even walking which one poster mentioned very curtly is not an option. It is clear the airlines are taking advantage of people who are leaving under these circumstances and need to be taken to account for their selfish and greedy actions.

This is the same situation that often occurs in other countries when there is a natural disaster such as a flood when all of a sudden gas pries increase; the cost of bottled water triples and other basic necessities get grossly inflated. It is pure greed and has nothing to do with market forces; capitalism or Democracy. The Government needs to step in now-with a hammer in the way of a huge fine.

 

Someone skipped Econ 101.. 

[LivinLOS]

56 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

While prices may rise during a 'high' season- the situation in Southern Thailand is considered emergent due to flooding. Even if the Airlines would normally raise prices- it is obvious they are taking advantage of a difficult situation by not allowing any type of price choice or bringing in extra equipment to give more seats and thus lower prices

 

1) clearly you have no idea how seat sales and graduated price scaling works. 

 

2) any type of price choice ?? Of course there is.. Pick another airline.. 

 

3) bringing in extra equipment to give more seats ?? So during tropical storms they should just magic up some planes, design a flight schedule (probably get that passed by the Thai aviation authority), book more landing and loading slots with the airports, and.. to top it all.. they should do that for 'lower prices'.. Yeah thats how it works !! 

[Thaidream]

I am well aware of how economics work and I am also aware that the current business model in most companies is materialistic capitalism and to hell with the customer. Why do you think people hold most corporations in such low esteem. It's called greed. Economics is a basic concept. However, how a company uses the concept is varied. Most  use the business model of 'greed being good'. They would never admit it  but as one who has sat in on high level meetings and listened to the utter disdain these so called magnates of industry hold for the general public I am glad I am retired. Most executives care little about corporate responsibility. Who do you think precipitated the crash of 2008- it sure as hell wasn't  the common working man. MOst of these executives would leverage their soul to make a profit.

[halloween]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Yes some flights are cheaper, but those are not direct fligths. There is nothing sinister with that pricing.  Passengers  in North America can pay more for their domestic  tickets or a flight to Europe than the cost of a ticket to some SE Asia destinations. No one is forcing you to fly on bangkok Airways to Samui. Take the ferry from the mainland.  Why do you expect the airline to subsidize your holiday?

 

BS. I foolishly expect the company that has a monopoly to charge a reasonable fare to the place where I LIVE, and to allow the competition access. The OP is a whine about high prices which are a fraction of that Samuians are offered.

[Janner1]

7 hours ago, russius said:

Fleecing customers is part of AirAsia's business plan. Next, they will charge for using the 'john'.

 

As I understand it Ryanair in the UK already does.

 

On another note by and large air fares in Thailand are relatively cheap until there is a public holiday ( which few Thais can enjoy ) then the price triples or quadruples and that is when it is unfair.

 

if they can fly for most of the year for say 1,000 baht, then 2,000 at holiday time would be acceptable but 3 or 4,000 is taking the proverbial