"We're not fleecing customers - it's just market forces" say budget airlines

[russius]

Again 'fleecing'!!!

[ChrisY1]

1 hour ago, little mary sunshine said:

Greedy, criminals basta***... Govt should investigate 

and fine them heavily 

So should the government control airline ticketing?

[mtls2005]

Travel by train, bus, mini-van and car is next to impossible owing to floods, so more people want to fly. And they want to fly at the last minute, when the really low-priced fare buckets are long gone.

 

Seems like some folks are just learning about econ 101?

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[Emster23]

People and companies respond to incentives: from the lowest food cart up to Apple. Airlines goal is to sell as many seats as possible at as high a price as possible, with as little service as they can. They can't add additional cars like trains.

 Unfortunately no one has come up with a more efficient economic system than capitalism. Some starve, some get rich. When the rich get into unleveling the playing field via politics and donations is where I get pissed off.

 It is absurd about somehow requiring to carry on vs check baggage (other than ground crew has to work more). 10 kg is 10 kg as far as fuel and lift goes. Eva dinged me one time as one bag was a bit over, but other checked bag was guitar: total weight under the limit by far, but if they can charge, they will.  Surprised they don't weigh customers and charge extra for fatties.

[boomerangutang]

         I just wrote a letter to Postbag at the Bkk Post.  It's on a related subject: Air Asia (shown in the photo of this thread) sends out a mass emailing touting low prices for flights.   I go on their site and pick a flight.  I click and go to the next web page.  It asks if I want upgrades.  There are 2 choices.  One for Bt.500 or option #2 for considerably more.  

 

        I try to click onward to pay for my discount flight.  I can't.  I figure I need to pay the added Bt.500 (for upgrades I don't want) in order to finish the process.   I click the Bt.500 option.  Still the page won't let me go on.  I realize, the only way I can proceed is to click the high priced upgrade option.  I don't.   Quest abandoned. Frustrated.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, little mary sunshine said:

Greedy, criminals basta***... Govt should investigate 

and fine them heavily 

 

Investigate what, fine them for what, for doing the same thing every airline in every country does! I got news for you, prices of almost everything are cheaper if you agree to buy in advance, not surprisingly they get more expensive if you say I need them today, right now!,.

[NextStationBangkok]

AirAsia good for long term planning. They make windfall profit due to scandals and failure in ThaiAirways.

 

I feel there is a top level syndicate playing on it for kick backs. As long as these airlines work hand in hand with politicians, the price be never honest.

 

Same applies to cable TV as well. That's how we pay $60 for watching BBC or CNN, it is also monopoly. They never allow any competitors for the business.

[hansnl]

It is a general decline of morality of airlines, and not only the low cost, to find any reason whatsoever to fleece extra payment from customers for "services" bordering on the insane or criminal.

And telling the world it is all to blame on market forces.

Like banksters, they are.

Edited January 10, 2017 by hansnl

[dutchinlondon]

1 hour ago, sahibji said:

for the poor guy whose house is under water or the farmer whose crops have been washed away by floods? dead cheap?

Somehow I think those aren't the people who can afford to buy a ticket. Even in normal circumstances. And yes, Flying is cheap. It's the added taxes that make your eyes go wet . LOL 

 

[todlad]

2 hours ago, Ricardo said:

...  and taking-advantage of customers would be un-Thai, wouldn't it !

 

Another unwarranted dig at Thailand and Thai people.

 

Low cost airlines are a joke but if you are able to book well in advance you can come out feeling reasonably happy.

 

I have used both of the airlines mentioned here and i have to say i use Air Asia only as a last resort. Low cost should not mean low service. The last flight i took to KL saw no crew at the door saying goodbye: one crew member was near the door but he was browsing on his phone already so far too busy for the likes of you and me.

 

I understand the low cost principle: start with a low cost base and then generate more revenue as a passenger demands more services. Many airlines in this sector have low base fares, not Air Asia IN MY EXPERIENCE. I do always feel fleeced when i travel with them.

 

Here is something to think about: seat occupancy rates on the routes i fly on are always 100% +/- 1 or 2%. In that case, whilst i understand the hypothesis of supply and demand, it is a bit disingenuous of these airlines to increase prices when they can already sell every seat.

 

 

[todlad]

32 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Try walking up to the BA desk in Heathrow and asking them how much they want for a ticket to anywhere on the day you want to fly!

BA is not a budget airline.

[hansnl]

20 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Investigate what, fine them for what, for doing the same thing every airline in every country does! I got news for you, prices of almost everything are cheaper if you agree to buy in advance, not surprisingly they get more expensive if you say I need them today, right now!,.

Please explain to me why this is so?

Is it a natural force to charge more for the same ticket because you had no chance or reason to buy before?

And then please explain to me also why it is that tickets bought just before the flight are cheaper again.

Same flight, same machine, same number of staff, everything same-same.

Your answer just shows how indoctrinated you are in the hogwash of many companies.

And believing it!

Edited January 10, 2017 by hansnl

[chiang mai]

Just now, todlad said:

BA is not a budget airline.

 

Discounts based on time of order and lead time are a standard world wide, budget airline or not the same principles exist.

[Cranky]

1 hour ago, sahibji said:

for the poor guy whose house is under water or the farmer whose crops have been washed away by floods? dead cheap?

And they need to fly where exactly ?  Its business. Simple.

[chiang mai]

Just now, hansnl said:

Please explain to me why this is so?

Is it a natural force to charge more for the same ticket because you had no chance or reason to buy before?

And then please explain to me also why it is that tickets bought just before the flight are cheaper again.

Same flight, same machine, same number of staff, everything same-same.

Your answer just shows you are you indoctrinated in the hogwash of many companies.

 

No, not really, it's just that I'm capable of thinking it through!

[todlad]

32 minutes ago, Mickmouse1 said:

It is not market gorces but Air Asia and Nok Air are indeed taking advantage and exploiting the opportunity capitalising on passengers misery. Recently I was badly treated by nok air for having 16.3kg and no hand luggage. I informed them that I am quite sick with high fever and extremely weak they refused and insisted that I carry some on board.My ticket from  Krabi to Bkk was 2000 baht while Smile air from Suvarmbhumi cost me 1287 only.

Air asia on many occasions were found to be more expensive than scheduled airlines . just check around before buying your ticket.?

Absolutely right: always check Malaysian and Thai ... no baggage restrictions within a relatively high limit, they include food and drink, you don't pay to preselect a seat ... and I have found these two cheaper on many occasions.

[Cranky]

22 minutes ago, Emster23 said:

People and companies respond to incentives: from the lowest food cart up to Apple. Airlines goal is to sell as many seats as possible at as high a price as possible, with as little service as they can. They can't add additional cars like trains.

 Unfortunately no one has come up with a more efficient economic system than capitalism. Some starve, some get rich. When the rich get into unleveling the playing field via politics and donations is where I get pissed off.

 It is absurd about somehow requiring to carry on vs check baggage (other than ground crew has to work more). 10 kg is 10 kg as far as fuel and lift goes. Eva dinged me one time as one bag was a bit over, but other checked bag was guitar: total weight under the limit by far, but if they can charge, they will.  Surprised they don't weigh customers and charge extra for fatties.

Fatties should pay more.  Pay according to total weight, why should I get charged excess baggage - which I have - when my total is still less than 100 KG's and some fat git next in line weighs in at 150 ?

[hansnl]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

No, not really, it's just that I'm capable of thinking it through!

I have been in the business of spouting bloody nonsense to customers for years.

Always resented this deep down.

But professionally I guess  I have to be proud there are people really believing my hogwash.

[Trexpat]

1 hour ago, little mary sunshine said:

Greedy, criminals basta***... Govt should investigate 

and fine them heavily 

I find this amazing, supply and demand is simple economics so why would you expect them to be fined? When demand is low and they have to sell at 999 Baht and run the route at a loss do you feel sorry for them and say that you are willing to pay more? I doubt it!

The Airlines are a business not a state run enterprise nor a charity so do not expect any favours.

[cromagnon]

Actually this price rise due to increased demand is fine with me.  If people don't like it, they can drive...or walk!  What I really don't like about budget airlines is: how these budget airlines cram you into sardine-size seats.  Good luck if you have a fat or smelly person next to you in one of these seats.  Budget airlines rarely get gate assignments at airports causing you to have to get buses to and from the gates, long departure delays, CHARGES for assigning you a seat (as if you have the option of sitting on a wing or the top of the fuselage), force-feeding you some type of insurance when you make a booking even though you declined it, charging for luggage and even carry-ons, sales gimmicks which ruin the peace and quiet during a flight.  Etc etc etc etc etc.  These budget airlines are best avoided unless you are on a very strict budget.  Even then, by the time you add the fees, even the ones you declined but were force-fed to you, there is not much savings at all.  These unscrupulous airlines know that a large percentage of customers will NOT take the time (usually an hour or so, assuming you are not disconnected, to even wait for a customer service rep) to get on the phone to reverse a charge for $5.  Avoid budget airlines if at all possible.  This is definitely one area where the maxim is true: you get what you pay for.

[jerojero]

Market forces  

And minor natural disaster causing 10x demand for flights. Thanks for flying Nok "Advantage Us" Air.

[hansnl]

4 minutes ago, Cranky said:

Fatties should pay more.  Pay according to total weight, why should I get charged excess baggage - which I have - when my total is still less than 100 KG's and some fat git next in line weighs in at 150 ?

Because they have different rates for freight and for persons.

In your world of thought it would be only natural to charge a ticket price based on the total weight of the customer plus luggage.

Oh yes, plus extras for length, shoesize, length of hair, smell, snoring........

[todlad]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Discounts based on time of order and lead time are a standard world wide, budget airline or not the same principles exist.

Good!

 

By the way of nothing. Monarch trapped a plane load of us in Malaga for 16 hours a few years ago and they said, if you want to transfer to another airline, there will be no penalty. I found the Ryanair desk and asked them to quote me for a one way ticket to Leeds/Bradford ... GBP275 they said.

 

Think about this: i know they will say that if they discount at the last minute, many pax will wait to take advantage. On the other hand, i would probably have paid their base price plus x%. So they went with an empty seat that could never fill and it didn't seem to me to be in the spirit of their profit maximisation strategy.

[scorecard]

53 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Try weighing your baggage before you go to the airport! I rather doubt that the check-in attendant was ecstatic at the extra work you had caused her.

 

Allowance is 30 K.

 

Your baggage was 50K   -    20K overweight.

 

Questions:

 

1. Did you not know they are flexible up to about 2 K overweight, free, but for 20K you will definitely pay. My guess is yes you did know, in fact pretty obvious.

 

2. Did you not know that all airlines, globally, charge very hefty rates for overweight baggage. My guess is yes you did know.

 

3. Did you not realize that your baggage was way overweight before you went to the  airport? 

[khunano]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

Just checked Bangkok Air Samui-BKK tomorrow. Cheapest flight B4910, cheapest seat (promo ) on more desirable flights B8160, "Web Freedom" seats B12990.

Bangkok Air is not a budget airline, they call themselves "boutique airline" and they definitely take advantage of the routes where they have no competition from budget airlines like Koh Samui or previously Luang Prabang. From the latter flying to Bangkok I was treated to a noisy turboprop plane and inedible food.

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, hansnl said:

I have been in the business of spouting bloody nonsense to customers for years.

Always resented this deep down.

But professionally I guess  I have to be proud there are people really believing my hogwash.

 

Almost every product or service has a holding cost, that's the cost of keeping that product or service available for future sale or use, right up to the time it is sold or used and the associated revenue is received. In the case of an airline that might include salaries, premises planes fuel and all manner of things they need to run their business. BUT, by receiving revenue early they have avoided a portion of the future holding cost hence the product or service becomes cheaper hence they can afford to discount that early sale.

 

The following explains the practise in detail: https://books.google.co.th/books?id=QUxX7ukZM1IC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=why+are+advanced+orders+discounted&source=bl&ots=yDTeEc7BOr&sig=cgoResF5FL8mB131D6CfPbF1MlM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiR5oDXwbbRAhWKwI8KHRiWCl04ChDoAQgdMAE#v=onepage&q=why are advanced orders discounted&f=false

[Trexpat]

23 minutes ago, hansnl said:

Please explain to me why this is so?

Is it a natural force to charge more for the same ticket because you had no chance or reason to buy before?

And then please explain to me also why it is that tickets bought just before the flight are cheaper again.

Same flight, same machine, same number of staff, everything same-same.

Your answer just shows how indoctrinated you are in the hogwash of many companies.

And believing it!

Come on. 

Here we go - lesson on covering operational cost.

1. Get business in early to make sure the flight can operate, cover your costs. Those early booking have heavy restrictions and often can not be refunded. This guarantees the flight operates and the people who have the chance to plan ahead benefit. Win Win.

2. Book later once the airline are confident they have covered their costs and the price goes up but still has restrictions about changes and refunds.

3. Book near departure when the airline are sure they have covered costs and made profit then they do what is called yielding and increase the price up to what would be the standard rate with no restriction and fully flexible.

 

The above can be referred to as dynamic pricing and is common practice in a lot of industries. If you think its unfair move to a country where all is subsidised or free (Marxist - you could give North Korea a go) or go off the grid become totally self sufficient and do not travel.

 

There you see, we all have options.

 

By the way, I wish this rain would stop.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Trexpat

[irwinfc]

fleecing is, in fact, right in the center of their business models!

[new2here]

I don't think their reply is entirely inaccurate.

Given that most carriers sell their tickets in several fare classes (within the same cabin level) and given that as one fare class sells out, the next higher fare basis then becomes the lowest fare.

Therefore, so long as they didn't artificially lower or zero-out the then-lowest fare class(es) to then show only higher fare classes, I think the basic principle of supply and demand has held true.

One could argue that there's a public good in artificially lowering fares or even artificially adjusting inventory allocation- but that then means one is artificially depressing fares outside of natural supply-demand balance would otherwise call for.


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