Racism, anger and why dual pricing makes sense to Thai people

[digibum]

22 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

do park officials charge multiple times the going rate to rape the forest and develop resorts that encroach upon parks? Okay I am willing to pay ten times the going rate even though I don't treat a water fall like a trash can. So I can demand to see where this sort of funding goes to. 

 

 

Again, what's with you thinking you can make demands?  You are a guest in their country.  If you want to be the environmental warrior go back home and fix that.  

 

You know you sound like a total racist, right?  

[digibum]

1 minute ago, anotheruser said:

 

I have the right to say what I want, it is called public input. They can take it anyway they want to.

 

Or they can tell you to shove it up your a** and f-off back home and still charge you 10x what the Thais pay.  

 

[anotheruser]

Just now, digibum said:

 

Again, what's with you thinking you can make demands?  You are a guest in their country.  If you want to be the environmental warrior go back home and fix that.  

 

You know you sound like a total racist, right?  

 

You sound like a moron. Many parks around the world are transparent in regards to where your money goes.

[anotheruser]

Just now, digibum said:

 

Or they can tell you to shove it up your a** and f-off back home and still charge you 10x what the Thais pay.  

 

 

That's the current MO lol 

[cncltd1973]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 7:11 AM, laislica said:

At the end of the day, IMHO, the seller wants to get the best return from a sale.

He has a price that the locals will bear and he has to charge that or less or sell nothing.

He sees the foreigner as someone who is a millionaire for their holiday, has money to burn and even appears to enjoy burning it.

So why not try to get more?

Sure it's pure greed but if there are enough stupid foreigners who just pay up, this becomes a new market value as far as the seller is concerned.

I agree. I've been going to Bali for the past 20 years on business, and can appreciate both sides of the argument of pricing. A poor merchant doesn't want to leave any money on the table after negotiating with someone who has money to spare. And the better your language skills, the better the price. It's hustle, and as a merchant myself, I can appreciate the thought and will pay off a good hustle as a reward for their extra effort (Indos have much better hustle). Some TVF have only known the consumer side of a negotiation and think of it as a scam or dishonest, as it would be in a 1st world. But in developing countries, prices are meant to be worked out between 2 people, and may the better man win.

My Thai wife is more disturbed about dual pricing than I am!

[digibum]

5 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

So what am i paying for? To line some park officials pockets? So he can continue his mission to deforest the park that my money is supposedly levied to protect? You have to be joking. If you ever get to a national park in the USA you can request to see where revenue is generated. 

 

I would have no problem paying national park fees but what you are doing is supporting the destruction of the park itself in Thailand. There isn't any emphasis upon preservation and it isn't the fees themselves that make it a farce, it is the pretense of conservation that is the joke. 

 

I would like to see much more transparency if i am paying that sort of money. Not some mealy mouthed apology, that is utterly inexcusable. All national parks and state parks are held accountable where I am from.

 

Next time I visit Yellowstone I expect the conditions to be better, this can't be said of Samet.  Paying people that have no other intention of destroying the park they protect is wrong and how many multiples of wrong it is doesn't matter.

 

Maybe you are paying to line a park official's pockets.  That's Thailand's problem.  Not yours.  

 

And you are not in where you are from.  You are in Thailand.  The Thai people own the land.  You are nothing more than a guest.  You have zero right to any transparency.  You have zero rights, whatsoever.  

 

And it isn't up to you to say whether or not Thailand is taking care of their own lands.  If you don't like it, don't come.  Stay home and jerk yourself off in Yellowstone confident in the knowledge that they're taking care of the land.  

 

 

[digibum]

2 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

You sound like a moron. Many parks around the world are transparent in regards to where your money goes.

 

But not the ones in Thailand.  I really don't understand why it's so hard for you to grasp that Thailand is not the US.  Thailand has a long tradition of doing stuff the way they want with zero regard for how anybody else feels about it.  I'm not saying it's right, but crying like a little girl on TV isn't going to change anything.  The reality is what it is.  

[anotheruser]

Just now, digibum said:

 

Maybe you are paying to line a park official's pockets.  That's Thailand's problem.  Not yours.  

 

And you are not in where you are from.  You are in Thailand.  The Thai people own the land.  You are nothing more than a guest.  You have zero right to any transparency.  You have zero rights, whatsoever.  

 

And it isn't up to you to say whether or not Thailand is taking care of their own lands.  If you don't like it, don't come.  Stay home and jerk yourself off in Yellowstone confident in the knowledge that they're taking care of the land.  

 

 

 

It becomes my problem when I pay officials that rape the forest. I don't need to support it. this is me voting with my wallet which is my right. What I take exception to is the fact that officials in Thailand do not ever contribute to the over all good. 

 

So thank you for giving me permission to spend my money however I want to. So if I don't want my money to contribute to continued deforestation in Thailand it is up to me. I can also give my opinions on it and suggest people simply skip going to national parks. 

 

So I am unwilling to pay park fees that will only make that park worse. This is my choice. We liver in a diverse world so we can do what we want.

[digibum]

4 minutes ago, cncltd1973 said:

I agree. I've been going to Bali for the past 20 years on business, and can appreciate both sides of the argument of pricing. A poor merchant doesn't want to leave any money on the table after negotiating with someone who has money to spare. And the better your language skills, the better the price. It's hustle, and as a merchant myself, I can appreciate the thought and will pay off a good hustle as a reward for their extra effort (Indos have much better hustle). Some TVF have only known the consumer side of a negotiation and think of it as a scam or dishonest, as it would be in a 1st world. But in developing countries, prices are meant to be worked out between 2 people, and may the better man win.

My Thai wife is more disturbed about dual pricing than I am!

 

Actually, it seems as if many on TVF have zero negotiating experience or much experience in cultures where negotiating is a traditional part of commerce.  

 

I get why people from western countries don't like negotiating.  It raises their stress levels because they're not used to it.  It's why most people consider purchasing a car from a car dealership one of the worst experiences of their lives.  

 

And most are bad at it.  They get very confrontational when it's not a confrontational interaction.  They raise their voices, make demands, bluster, whatever because they actually don't know how to negotiate.  

 

 

[anotheruser]

i wouldn't pay to go to Yellowstone if i thought  my payment would make the park a worse place.  That's my issue, not the price.

Edited January 14, 2017 by anotheruser

[anotheruser]

7 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

Actually, it seems as if many on TVF have zero negotiating experience or much experience in cultures where negotiating is a traditional part of commerce.  

 

I get why people from western countries don't like negotiating.  It raises their stress levels because they're not used to it.  It's why most people consider purchasing a car from a car dealership one of the worst experiences of their lives.  

 

And most are bad at it.  They get very confrontational when it's not a confrontational interaction.  They raise their voices, make demands, bluster, whatever because they actually don't know how to negotiate.  

 

 

I have been here awhile and have had to negotiate more than most people. more than you if I had to venture a guess

 

Edited January 14, 2017 by anotheruser

[digibum]

2 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

It becomes my problem when I pay officials that rape the forest. I don't need to support it. this is me voting with my wallet which is my right. What I take exception to is the fact that officials in Thailand do not ever contribute to the over all good. 

 

So thank you for giving me permission to spend my money however I want to. So if I don't want my money to contribute to continued deforestation in Thailand it is up to me. I can also give my opinions on it and suggest people simply skip going to national parks. 

 

So I am unwilling to pay park fees that will only make that park worse. This is my choice. We liver in a diverse world so we can do what we want.

 

Bro, Thais engage in slave labor, sell their children into prostitution, and all sorts of other stuff that seem way, way, way higher on the list of things to fix than taking care of their national parks to some farang's standards.  

 

I wish they would take better care of their parks as well.  They're beautiful.  But if you're going to get your panties in a bunch over what's wrong in Thailand, first off, you're priorities are way out of whack, but more importantly, you're probably better off never stepping foot in Thailand or buying a product made in Thailand.  

 

Your objections are noted.  

[anotheruser]

Just now, digibum said:

 

Bro, Thais engage in slave labor, sell their children into prostitution, and all sorts of other stuff that seem way, way, way higher on the list of things to fix than taking care of their national parks to some farang's standards.  

 

I wish they would take better care of their parks as well.  They're beautiful.  But if you're going to get your panties in a bunch over what's wrong in Thailand, first off, you're priorities are way out of whack, but more importantly, you're probably better off never stepping foot in Thailand or buying a product made in Thailand.  

 

Your objections are noted.  

 

No, let's not get in a misunderstanding. Sounds like you are the guy to do all the above.

[anotheruser]

i won't support the parks not because of the prices but the fact that it actually will be money used to the detriment of the park itself.

[digibum]

6 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

i wouldn't pay to go to Yellowstone if i thought  my payment would make the park a worse place.  That's my issue, not the price.

 

Every visitor that enters a national park makes it a worse place if you want to get really down to the nitty gritty.  They build roads though the parks, hiking trails, camping spots, etc.  But they attempt to balance the cost with showing people what they are protecting and raising enough funds to protect it.  

 

So, really, it's not a binary issue of better or worse.  It's entirely an issue of whether or not you agree that the damage justifies the result.  

 

I agree that it doesn't in many Thai parks.  But, again, as I said previously, if I was going to spend my indignation on something, how Thais treat their land falls pretty far down on the list.  How they treat their people is a bigger concern to me.  

[anotheruser]

1 minute ago, digibum said:

 

Every visitor that enters a national park makes it a worse place if you want to get really down to the nitty gritty.  They build roads though the parks, hiking trails, camping spots, etc.  But they attempt to balance the cost with showing people what they are protecting and raising enough funds to protect it.  

 

So, really, it's not a binary issue of better or worse.  It's entirely an issue of whether or not you agree that the damage justifies the result.  

 

I agree that it doesn't in many Thai parks.  But, again, as I said previously, if I was going to spend my indignation on something, how Thais treat their land falls pretty far down on the list.  How they treat their people is a bigger concern to me.  

 

That gets compounded when the park warden himself has ulterior motives. 

[anotheruser]

Let's get the warden a chainsaw.

[Shiver]

5 hours ago, stevemac said:

I find the same mix as back home in uk, some who'll rip you off at every opportunity and some who would give really generously. If they can't give anything else they'll give their time. When I had my housewarming they provided all of the food except the expensive meat and fish, plus their time and effort. All the seating, shelter, singers dancers and dj were paid for by different people in the village.
The saying you reap what you sow comes to mind.
Been in the same village for over 10 years now.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

'Not been my own experience.  For contrast a major family member passed on a couple of months ago and a I put a sum of money in an envelope.  Unrelated directly the way I asked, (to obfuscate on purpose) I asked my GF what the total contributions were from the couple of hundred people in the village that were in attendance with their Blend 285, gambling, food and the  usual other resources (eg. huge sweat equity from people (aside from those cooking cleaning and contributing in non financial ways but were critical to make it all happen).  I asked about the Life Assurance (that I pay/paid for the grandparents ) which may not be a lot to us if we're in good financial shape, but significant to them in that they can die without leaving a problem with others.  It turns out that these ''vultures' as I call the majority of the extended family with the exception of a couple of heroes/heroins/selfless/all giving/ minority close friends and family who I have all the time in the world for even if they don't have a satang to their name but are true in heart...the others paid less than what I gave, so one modest farang paid more than several hundred free loaders, that is to say that my single fairly modest contribution was more than 50% of total (and I hardly know any of those couple of hundred others. I just have empathy for the way I could feel my GF was dealing with it even if I couldn't be direct assistance I could help in other ways).  I've told my GF I will never ever go to a Thai funeral again and these are my reasons.  For sure she's completely not happy with that, but she doesn't get to choose....it's that "Alpha assertion time" that you'd really rather not do, but when peas are above sticks, something has to give.

As a result I'm not exactly popular right now with my S/O despite being the best performer in enhancing her life ever since adulthood when I met her, but I ain't for turning, and she can accept it and maybe one day understand it, but if she feels she can do better than me then the world is out there for her (crucifying to me, but I would prevail).  I think she understands though it will be a while to absorb the simple concept (I sure hope she thinks that way as I really really really don't want to lose her, but if it turns out she is arsenic and not Vit C then the choice is painful and crystal clear.  

Others will likely contribute their stories (and I have many more positive experiences than the one above that I'd like to communicate to provide some balance).  This is just one take.  If we get a few dozen more stories then we may hit the minimum of 'statistical significance' from which to draw some ideas for everyone else to design their futures.

[Howitzer]

i'm a non thai asian with a slightly above rudimentary knowledge of thai language. This means that although i cannot really get into a meaninful conversation with a thai person in thai language i suppose i do know words and phrases that a regular tourist asian or not wouldn't know.

 

I could say that my outward appearance does count towards this double pricing thing. I have been mistaken as thai before. I don't have the typical thai dark skin look and not all thais have dark skin anyway. The point is i suppose being asian i am let off more easily off the hook compared to a farang foreigner.

 

This applies equally both ways. Farang foreigners are probably less friendly to me compared to other foreigners that look more farang. You get my drift. Let's say the setting is in the UK. There are 2 foreigners that don't speak english. One is a polish man and the other a japanese man. The polish man gets off more easily cos he looks more british compared to the japanese guy but the main difference is that there isn't any website or outlet for the japanese man to vent about this.

 

Anyway in some instances like say in a taxi the taxi driver tells me he wants a fixed rate say 500 bht from central bkk to swampy. I say no use the meter. He expresses disappointment but turns on the meter anyway and that's it, I pay the toll cos i chose the expressway and nothing else happened. At the airport he even takes out my luggage i pay him what's on the meter and he goes on his merry way. I doubt he would try that on a thai person and i don't think a farang person would have gotten it worse than me but who knows maybe he would have been pissed if a farang looking person told him to use the meter.  This occured just this year from bliston suwan at soi tonson to swampy.

 

The thing is this double pricing thing is mostly based on one's external appearance. There are many foreigners in thailand and many of them are from the surrounding countries and perhaps they get off easier due to their similarity to thai people who knows. Yet at the end of the discrimination is still discrimination and it exists everywhere. A farang looking person is probably going to get off easier in a farang country say UK or USA even if he doesn't speak english compared to a non farang looking person. Get my drift.

 

 

[anotheruser]

31 minutes ago, Howitzer said:

i'm a non thai asian with a slightly above rudimentary knowledge of thai language. This means that although i cannot really get into a meaninful conversation with a thai person in thai language i suppose i do know words and phrases that a regular tourist asian or not wouldn't know.

 

I could say that my outward appearance does count towards this double pricing thing. I have been mistaken as thai before. I don't have the typical thai dark skin look and not all thais have dark skin anyway. The point is i suppose being asian i am let off more easily off the hook compared to a farang foreigner.

 

This applies equally both ways. Farang foreigners are probably less friendly to me compared to other foreigners that look more farang. You get my drift. Let's say the setting is in the UK. There are 2 foreigners that don't speak english. One is a polish man and the other a japanese man. The polish man gets off more easily cos he looks more british compared to the japanese guy but the main difference is that there isn't any website or outlet for the japanese man to vent about this.

 

Anyway in some instances like say in a taxi the taxi driver tells me he wants a fixed rate say 500 bht from central bkk to swampy. I say no use the meter. He expresses disappointment but turns on the meter anyway and that's it, I pay the toll cos i chose the expressway and nothing else happened. At the airport he even takes out my luggage i pay him what's on the meter and he goes on his merry way. I doubt he would try that on a thai person and i don't think a farang person would have gotten it worse than me but who knows maybe he would have been pissed if a farang looking person told him to use the meter.  This occured just this year from bliston suwan at soi tonson to swampy.

 

The thing is this double pricing thing is mostly based on one's external appearance. There are many foreigners in thailand and many of them are from the surrounding countries and perhaps they get off easier due to their similarity to thai people who knows. Yet at the end of the discrimination is still discrimination and it exists everywhere. A farang looking person is probably going to get off easier in a farang country say UK or USA even if he doesn't speak english compared to a non farang looking person. Get my drift.

 

 

\the fact that they use the money to further environmental damage is what is wrong for me. The money paid actually leads to destructive practices.

Edited January 14, 2017 by anotheruser

[Thechook]

20 hours ago, namoi said:

dual pricing quite common in some of the great barrier reef areas of north qld, there they use a loyalty type card and discount from the total bill, only the smaller independent super markets do it though

That's not exactly dual pricing, anyone from tourists or Martians can take part in reward schemes,  they aren't  restricted to locals.  The choice is up to the individual.  I know of Thais who pay cheaper prices than locals in Australia, they have student cards and health care cards and they aren't Australian citizens. It is actually against the law to discriminate against someone based on race or religion

[Howitzer]

oh yes another thing i would like to add about the dual pricing thing in thailand. Well suck it up. I honestly don't give a s*it or a <deleted> if this dual pricing thing happens to foreigners and to put it in a more appropriate way foreigners who are or look like farang.

 

it's like this. Are a going to thailand because you are desperate and avoiding some war or conflict in your home country?

 

Of course not. You go to thailand to find cheap p@ssy or your home country hates you. In short thailand isn't a country where refugees would visit(from the western perspective, if you are from syria you are 500% better off seeking help in germany compared to thailand).Therefore you cannot really complain of discrimination can you? it's really different compared to someone who stepped off some boat and the authorities want him to pay a huge sum of money vs someone who chose to move to a country where the standard of living is lower and he needs to pay less to get a semibalance of life in his original home country isn't it?

[anotheruser]

I hope they charge a lot more. Considering how public officials protect the interest of all people I think the prices should be raised 400%

[hgma]

WE go shopping in Tesco, visit national parks with a 10% discount since we are member of the zoological society

Hire a bungalow in attraction parks with entrance free. if they have not we don't attend, if some one mentioned a ridiculous price its end of his /her change to sell.

And sometimes i  just say....why do you sell so cheap, its worth millions, its just not your lucky day today....by!

[Howitzer]

The fact of the matter is this  supposed double pricing is based one one's external appearance.

 

You are a foreiger but you look thai maybe you get off easier, Examples would be ppl from surrounding countries like cambodia, philippines etc, I don't know how thais think of surroundiong asians but obviously a closer affinity.

[ezrider62]

3 hours ago, digibum said:

 

Yes, the only way that story gets any better is if the Thai merchant beat the snot out of him with a stick and when the police showed up he told him that the farang had stole the belt since he had never agreed on the 100 baht price.  And legally, the Thai merchant would be 100% right.  He said the price was 200, the farang handed the man 100 and walked off.  That's theft.  

 

You don't know what arrangement the previous customer had.  He could have purchased 10,000 baht worth of stuff the day before so the shop owner was giving him a deal.   Maybe that guy is his kid's school teacher and he wants to offer him the item at cost.  He has no idea whatsoever why the vendor gave the other guy a better price but he's taken upon himself to essentially steal the item by declaring his own price.  

 

I wonder how that would work back in Farangland.  You walk into a shop, someone ahead of you is buying the same item as you and uses a coupon.  Your turn to pay and you give the same amount to the shop owner as the person ahead of you and then just walk out.  Zero chance you aren't getting arrested.  

 

It boggles the mind that someone would think this is acceptable behavior.  And the irony in it is that by assuming that shoving a 100 baht note in the vendor's hand and deeming that he should take it, he is the one demonstrating the racism.  He feels that his logic and definition of fairness is superior because that's the way he thinks things should be done.  He would never pull that stunt back home else he find himself strangled with said belt or locked up for theft.  

 

Bro, if you can't pay the extra 100 baht for the belt and you need to literally steal from Thai merchants, GO HOME!!!!  Don't try make stealing from Thai merchants sound noble.  

 

@overherebc

 

You don't find it funny, I guess. 

[digibum]

41 minutes ago, ezrider62 said:

 

You don't find it funny, I guess. 

 

I would find it much funnier if they beat the snot out of him and I got to video it and post it on YouTube.  That would be funny.  

 

Stupid Farang Gets Pummeled Over 100 Baht

 

 

[newatthis]

1 hour ago, digibum said:

 

I would find it much funnier if they beat the snot out of him and I got to video it and post it on YouTube.  That would be funny.  

 

Stupid Farang Gets Pummeled Over 100 Baht

 

 

 

You may be right about the fact he should have paid the 200 baht or walked away without buying. But beating the snot out of anyone is not right.

[damo]

but it's fun...

 

[overherebc]

6 hours ago, digibum said:

 

Yes, the only way that story gets any better is if the Thai merchant beat the snot out of him with a stick and when the police showed up he told him that the farang had stole the belt since he had never agreed on the 100 baht price.  And legally, the Thai merchant would be 100% right.  He said the price was 200, the farang handed the man 100 and walked off.  That's theft.  

 

You don't know what arrangement the previous customer had.  He could have purchased 10,000 baht worth of stuff the day before so the shop owner was giving him a deal.   Maybe that guy is his kid's school teacher and he wants to offer him the item at cost.  He has no idea whatsoever why the vendor gave the other guy a better price but he's taken upon himself to essentially steal the item by declaring his own price.  

 

I wonder how that would work back in Farangland.  You walk into a shop, someone ahead of you is buying the same item as you and uses a coupon.  Your turn to pay and you give the same amount to the shop owner as the person ahead of you and then just walk out.  Zero chance you aren't getting arrested.  

 

It boggles the mind that someone would think this is acceptable behavior.  And the irony in it is that by assuming that shoving a 100 baht note in the vendor's hand and deeming that he should take it, he is the one demonstrating the racism.  He feels that his logic and definition of fairness is superior because that's the way he thinks things should be done.  He would never pull that stunt back home else he find himself strangled with said belt or locked up for theft.  

 

Bro, if you can't pay the extra 100 baht for the belt and you need to literally steal from Thai merchants, GO HOME!!!!  Don't try make stealing from Thai merchants sound noble.  

 

@overherebc

 

 

Doubt he could have beat the snot out of me with a stick as he was using the stick to get out of his wheelchair. ? That's not true by the way, but sometimes on TV you have to explain everything down to the smallest detail in a post.

Truth is the whole situation was carried out with smiles on both sides.

Then again if some enjoy violence or enjoy watching violence then that's up to them