Have to appeal a refused spouse visa HELP

[biffer]

We have received a REFUSAL OF ENTRY CLEARANCE  that has knocked us back because we did not suppky enough documents to support the sponsors ( the

husband) ability to support the applicant .missing documents :

Copies of title deeds to houses that provide rental income .  

Personal bank statements for 12 month period showing the rental income from those houses ( I provided 6 months as I read the rules I had to)

copies of rental agreements with the tenants of the above houses ( I provided a statement from the letting agent showing rents paid against each property)

bank statements showing a vast amount of 62.500 pounds in bank for 6 months 

Totally confused by the explanation for this as since 2007 I've put money in property rather than bank

No declaration of the source of these savings 

Ended with " not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that we meet all the requirements etc river passed every thing else 

It then goes on to say that we are entitled to appeal under section 82(1) and have to complete IAFT-6 APPEAL FORM

an interesting sentence states that " you are strongly advised to complete all section or the form and submit all relevant documents with notice of appeal as it may be possible to resolve the points at issue without an appeal"

We are both in Thailand at the moment and are in the process of getting the missing deeds,bank statements and rent agreamentssent emailed from UK 

But can anyone help us on filling out the appeal form as we are bureaucracy blind

 

 

 

[theoldgit]

Unfortunately you don't seem to have submitted the required evidence as set out in the Financial Requirements documents, so the ECO had no option but to refuse the application. The requirements are laid out in 6.5.1 of the Financial Requirements document, did you study the document?.

 

The requirements are quite specific and need to be met, the ECO has no discretion, save in certain circumstances and it doesn't seem to apply in your case. 

 

I'm not sure that members would be comfortable helping you complete an appeal form on an internet forum, if you really need help I would enlist the help of an agent, I would recommend the guys at Thai Visa Express, both Paul and Tony are experts in this field and well versed on the subject. They are based in Pattaya, they are however both professionals and their service would attract a fee.

[post]

1 hour ago, biffer said:

We are both in Thailand at the moment and are in the process of getting the missing deeds,bank statements and rent agreamentssent emailed from UK 

Just a matter of interest: Are those emailed documents rather than the originals accepted by the HO?

[biffer]

27 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Unfortunately you don't seem to have submitted the required evidence as set out in the Financial Requirements documents, so the ECO had no option but to refuse the application. The requirements are laid out in 6.5.1 of the Financial Requirements document, did you study the document?.

 

The requirements are quite specific and need to be met, the ECO has no discretion, save in certain circumstances and it doesn't seem to apply in your case. 

 

I'm not sure that members would be comfortable helping you complete an appeal form on an internet forum, if you really need help I would enlist the help of an agent, I would recommend the guys at Thai Visa Express, both Paul and Tony are experts in this field and well versed on the subject. They are based in Pattaya, they are however both professionals and their service would attract a fee.

Yes I accept that I did not submit the correct documents now but the ones I submitted I saw to be correct but I got it wrong and I did read the requirements but again got it wrong 

I don't think I am really asking someone to help me fill out online a form but just advice on which of the two reasons allowed am I appealing either the human rights route or the EEA route 

I have read the relevant guide notes and not sure which 

Any help would be appreciated 

 

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, biffer said:

Yes I accept that I did not submit the correct documents now but the ones I submitted I saw to be correct but I got it wrong and I did read the requirements but again got it wrong 

I don't think I am really asking someone to help me fill out online a form but just advice on which of the two reasons allowed am I appealing either the human rights route or the EEA route 

I have read the relevant guide notes and not sure which 

Any help would be appreciated 

 

I think it is quite clear what they want.

 

They want you to fill out the form and appeal, but are at the same time saying 'we presume you meet all the requirements but did not send in all the required paperwork. Do that now in the form of an official appeal, and we will be able to approve the application without the need to formally accept the appeal'.

[biffer]

17 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I think it is quite clear what they want.

 

They want you to fill out the form and appeal, but are at the same time saying 'we presume you meet all the requirements but did not send in all the required paperwork. Do that now in the form of an official appeal, and we will be able to approve the application without the need to formally accept the appeal'.

Oh that would be lovely they day it is advisable to do the appeal online for speed but unsure how I supply supporting documents ,can I attach or do I post 

[HooHaa]

attach and ask them if that is adequate

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by HooHaa

[bobrussell]

I consider it appropriate for some level of assistance to be included or available at moderate extra cost when you consider the amount of fees paid.

Many/most people will not have the experience of some on the forum and what seems straight forward for some will not be for others.

Errors in format of documents should be correctable (and is built into the rules but rarely applied).

Nobody expects to have the work done for them but a little assistance for minor issues especially where it is clear that the application would otherwise succeed is only fair. Since when has UKVI gone out of their way to be fair?

ECO's have no discretion if the application does not meet the rules but a little direction to get the right information in the right format is not unreasonable IMO.

[7by7]

On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 6:47 AM, biffer said:

<snip>

which of the two reasons allowed am I appealing either the human rights route or the EEA route 

 

 

I don't think it's either; it's certainly not the EEA route.

 

You wife was refused because you did not supply all of the specified documents. You are appealing that on the basis that you can supply the missing documents.

 

As far as I am aware, documents supplied in any appeal, like those for an application, need to be originals or copies certified by the issuer as correct.

 

But I am no expert on appeals, and suggest that you seek proper, professional advice.

 

Like theoldgit, the only agents in Thailand who I know enough about to be confident in recommending are Thai Visa Express.

[POMCHOB]

Hi buffer 

I would trust the advice of 7x7 he gives excellent advice

and is very knowledgable he has always provided me

with very good advice on issues of the ILR in the past.

As others too on the forum have ,you can follow theoldgits advice which is good 

or search for an appeals advocate in the UK to help you

with your advice but you should start to do this as soon as possible.

good luck 

POMCHOB

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by POMCHOB

[bobrussell]

If the information provided was in the wrong format then don't appeal, just bite the bullet and reapply. It will be much, much quicker and you will have fewer lost nights sleep.

If you believe the ECO made a mistake then appeal but this is likely to take some time and be even more costly if it is rejected.

 

[biffer]

On 19/01/2017 at 7:42 PM, 7by7 said:

 

I don't think it's either; it's certainly not the EEA route.

 

You wife was refused because you did not supply all of the specified documents. You are appealing that on the basis that you can supply the missing documents.

 

As far as I am aware, documents supplied in any appeal, like those for an application, need to be originals or copies certified by the issuer as correct.

 

But I am no expert on appeals, and suggest that you seek proper, professional advice.

 

Like theoldgit, the only agents in Thailand who I know enough about to be confident in recommending are Thai Visa Express.

Ah but there is the RUB 

On my rejection form it says I have a right to appeal and provide an appeal form but when filling out the form it quotes that you are only allowed to appeal on the human rights track or the EEA track 

So I just appealed on human rights and sent all the documentation that was missing the first time I got an appeal ref number the same day which according to the lady at the appeals court is very rarefied have to inform me within 28 days if my new evidence is accepted and resolve my problem without an appeal or give me a date for the appeal hearings I have decided to wait the outcome of that 28 days and if I only get a tribunal date not a visa I will abandon that and make a fresh application 

Thanks for all the advice

[MiKT]

On ‎27‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 0:45 PM, biffer said:

Ah but there is the RUB 

On my rejection form it says I have a right to appeal and provide an appeal form but when filling out the form it quotes that you are only allowed to appeal on the human rights track or the EEA track 

So I just appealed on human rights and sent all the documentation that was missing the first time I got an appeal ref number the same day which according to the lady at the appeals court is very rarefied have to inform me within 28 days if my new evidence is accepted and resolve my problem without an appeal or give me a date for the appeal hearings I have decided to wait the outcome of that 28 days and if I only get a tribunal date not a visa I will abandon that and make a fresh application 

Thanks for all the advice

 

 Your Thai wife is not from the European Economic Area (EEA) thus you are correct to appeal under the Human Rights track.

 

But you did not say who you were going to visit on the visa application form.

 

Section (clause) F190 of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 states: “(1)A person who applies for entry clearance for the purpose of entering the United Kingdom as a visitor may appeal under section 82(1) against refusal of entry clearance only if the application was made for the purpose of visiting a member of the applicant’s family.”

 

In this case it is your wife who is your family member and thus should qualify if you are going to visit other close members of your family, so with luck you should get you appeal granted quickly - IF it is only a case of missing documents showing that the rent money from your properties was paid into your bank.

 

But if the financial evidence that you can support your wife's visit is not acceptable then you will not get your appeal.

 

 

 

 

 

[7by7]

Two points, MiKT.

 

1) The right of appeal for family visit visas was removed w.e.f.25/6/2013 (see here)

 

2) The OP's spouse applied for, and was refused, a settlement visa, so appeal rights for visit visas, even if they still existed, are irrelevant.

[MiKT]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Two points, MiKT.

 

1) The right of appeal for family visit visas was removed w.e.f.25/6/2013 (see here)

 

2) The OP's spouse applied for, and was refused, a settlement visa, so appeal rights for visit visas, even if they still existed, are irrelevant.

 

Hello 7by7,

 

1. The information you provided (under see here) is interesting, but I think no longer applicable.

You can still make an appeal against an ECO's decision not to grant a family visa under Human Rights (or ECO) grounds.

 

Please see the long document I have just posted under the "Immigration to other countries"  forum about the 6 months saga we have had appealing to get family visa's for my step-daughters.

 

(Sorry, no idea how to link to that post).

 

2. I did not realise this was for a settlement visa. Different rules apply here for sure, but basically the same principles apply, he just needs to provide acceptable proof of income to support his wife.

 

 

 

[7by7]

22 hours ago, MiKT said:

Hello 7by7,

 

1. The information you provided (under see here) is interesting, but I think no longer applicable.

You can still make an appeal against an ECO's decision not to grant a family visa under Human Rights (or ECO) grounds.

 

It is still applicable; however you are correct that you can still appeal a family visit refusal under Article 8 of the ECHR; you can also ask for a judicial review.

 

But both are long winded and expensive, and simply reapplying may very well be quicker and cheaper.

 

An excellent summation of the situation and the difficulties one might face: Visit visa refusals: appeal or judicial review?

 

22 hours ago, MiKT said:

Please see the long document I have just posted under the "Immigration to other countries"  forum about the 6 months saga we have had appealing to get family visa's for my step-daughters.

 

(Sorry, no idea how to link to that post).

I do have a vague recollection of this, and I've looked for it in your posting history, but after 20 pages, which took me back to early 2016, I couldn't find it and gave up. I did find one mention of your step daughter, but no document.

 

The simplest way to link to it is to copy the url and paste it into your post here.

[7by7]

22 hours ago, MiKT said:

2. I did not realise this was for a settlement visa. Different rules apply here for sure, but basically the same principles apply, he just needs to provide acceptable proof of income to support his wife.

 He needs to provide all the required documents listed in the financial appendix guidance and again in the immigration rules applicable to the way he is meeting the financial requirement; which it appears he did not.

 

Entry Clearance Officers have very little discretion on this matter.

[MiKT]

12 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

It is still applicable; however you are correct that you can still appeal a family visit refusal under Article 8 of the ECHR; you can also ask for a judicial review.

 

But both are long winded and expensive, and simply reapplying may very well be quicker and cheaper.

 

An excellent summation of the situation and the difficulties one might face: Visit visa refusals: appeal or judicial review?

 

I do have a vague recollection of this, and I've looked for it in your posting history, but after 20 pages, which took me back to early 2016, I couldn't find it and gave up. I did find one mention of your step daughter, but no document.

 

The simplest way to link to it is to copy the url and paste it into your post here.

Sorry, I did post the story yesterday, but the Mods removed it on the grounds that I might have defamed somebody with my descriptions of what happened with the Immigration Department and the Appeals Judges. (Defamation is a criminal offence in Thailand, so I am thankful to them)

 

So I am rewriting it.

 

Nb Re your other post: Simply applying again will no help if the ECO has stated that any further applications will be rejected on the same grounds, which is what happened in our case and why we had to appeal.

 

Thanks for the tip on pasting the URL. I will try that when I have rewritten  my other post.

 

[7by7]

24 minutes ago, MiKT said:

Re your other post: Simply applying again will no help if the ECO has stated that any further applications will be rejected on the same grounds, which is what happened in our case and why we had to appeal.

Obviously, in any reapplication the reasons for the previous refusal must be adequately dealt with; otherwise they will simply refuse again.

 

Of course, how the applicant addresses those reasons depends on what they were; and some cannot be addressed. For example, being refused due to a previous breach, or attempted breach, of the immigration rules. Something which, I hope, does not apply to your step daughter!

 

I cannot comment on your step daughter's case without knowing the details, of course. If you wish to discuss it in private, where you don't have to worry about Thailand's defamation laws, feel free to PM me.

 

 

[bobrussell]

Very strange comment that any further applications will be rejected. As 7by7 states, unless the rejection reasons have been covered then it will be rejected again.

Cover the reasons adequately and the new application will be handled as a new application. Sometimes the ECO manages to reject on completely new grounds but the Independent Inspector for Visas & Immigration has stated this is unfair as all rejection reasons should be stated first time around.

[7by7]

He's PM'd me the details, Bob; and it is complicated!

[bobrussell]

All the more reason for an appeal or re-application be completed with professional help!

[MiKT]

3 minutes ago, bobrussell said:

All the more reason for an appeal or re-application be completed with professional help!

 

Yes, you are quite right and that was what my other post was for; to find out where to get the best legal help for an appeal to the Ombudsman. But it did not get published yet and 7by7 has been very helpful in sending me some information on judicial appeals.

 

Its a very long story and I will try to make the next steps and get the visa appeal judges decisions overturned (the were given erroneous information that my step-daughters were step-sisters (they not they are naturally born sisters with the same father and mother) - step-sisters cannot appeal, but siblings can.

 

When it is sorted out a bit more I will write another post that does not defame anybody and hopefully provide some help to other TV posters.

 

7by7 really is a great help.