Trump bars door to refugees, visitors from seven nations

[WaywardWind]

1 hour ago, USPatriot said:

Without the electoral college NY CA IL have enough votes to elect the president

NY: 29 electoral votes

CA: 55 EVs

IL: 20 EVs

Total: 104

 

You need a new calculator - it takes 270 to win.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

NY: 29 electoral votes

CA: 55 EVs

IL: 20 EVs

Total: 104

 

You need a new calculator - it takes 270 to win.

I think he meant that if the election was decided by the votes cast by voters, the voters from those three states would have been enough to win the election for clinton. Of course, it's total nonsense. Much like that ridiculous, pointless, and false claim that only 57 counties in the USA voted for Clinton.

[saiemsam]

 

If you review the actual text of the executive order(copied below in full) what you will immediately notice is the order doesn’t specify ANY countries to be included in the Visa suspension (Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen).

President Trump is not suspending visas from countries his team selected, they are simply suspending visa approval from countries President Obama selected.  Additionally, Trump is suspending ALL visa applications from those countries – nothing to do with Muslim applications.

• In 2013 President Obama suspended refugees from Iraq for six months.  • In 2015 Congress passed, and Obama signed, a law restricting visas from states of concern; • and in 2016 Obama’s DHS, Jeh Johnson,expanded those restrictions.  …. all President Trump is doing is taking the same action as Obama 2013, and applying Visa restrictions to the nation states Obama selected in 2015 and 2016.

U.S.C.1187 Law Link Here

The President Obama  Department of Homeland Security already targeted those seven listed countries for the past several years as nations of concern.

In February of 2016 the Department of Homeland Security announced that was continuing its implementation of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 with the addition of Libya, Somalia, and Yemen as three countries of additional concern.

DHS: “limiting Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals who have traveled to these countries.” DHS noted “the three additional countries designated today join Iran, Iraq, Sudan and Syria as countries subject to restrictions for Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals.”

President Trump is carrying out an executive action in support of the US Customs and Border Protection Act of 2015, which relates to “the Visa Waiver Program and Terrorist Travel Protection Act of 2015“.   President Trump did not select seven countries – the US Congress and Obama’s Department of Homeland Security had singled out these countries.

Nowhere in President Trump’s executive order does he single out any country for VISA suspension.  Instead what his XO does is say he’s suspending visa approvals from countries already outlined by the Obama administration as representing a specific threat such that they were categorized for extreme visa vetting by: 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12)

[midas]

On 1/28/2017 at 4:19 PM, WaywardWind said:

If that were the true goal - stopping terrorists from abroad - then why leave off the list the countries where terrorists historically have originated from?  Two reasons that I can think of - oil, and Trump investments.

 

Recall your words when a whole bunch of folks die in an attack on an embassy, a consulate, a Trump Hotel, an American NGO... That day is surely coming, and the blood will be on the hands of Trump and his cabal.

 

 

Saudi Arabia should be the first one on the list

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 hours ago, WaywardWind said:

Inconvenience? An Afghan who worked for the US military, thereby risking his life and those of his family when the Taliban vowed retaliation, is detained at JFK after a two year vetting to get visas, and is released only through the intervention of a US Congressman who was there to meet the family. Inconvenience?

 

I did wonder about that issue, namely, people from the excluded countries list who may happen to already been working as employees or contractors of the U.S. government, military, etc.

 

I certainly would have thought there ought to be an exception in that kind of exclusion order for the immediate families of foreign nationals employed by the U.S.  If there isn't, there certainly should be.

 

 

[Thakkar]

[F4UCorsair]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yep, they're basically signed TWEETS.

Word is there has been very little legal overview of his orders unlike Obama's. 

American voters (a MINORITY) have truly unleashed a MONSTER. 

Trump Is not the first President to have been elected with less than a majority of the popular vote.  There have even been Democrats....... perish the thought!!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, midas said:

 

 

Saudi Arabia should be the first one on the list

And Pakistan and a few others...

 

Well Mr (cough cough) President...  What are you about, protecting the U.S. citizens, or protecting your business interests in the Middle East???

[F4UCorsair]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Pakistan and a few others...

 

Well Mr (cough cough) President...  What are you about, protecting the U.S. citizens, or protecting your business interests in the Middle East???

Is It possible he could be doing both, and If they are coincident, Is there a problem?

Even Trump wiping his butt Is a problem for the left.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Skywalker69 said:

He could be up to something. 

 

'Terrific guy, fantastic country': Trump heaps praise on Pakistan's leader.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/terrific-guy-fantastic-country-trump-pakistan-nawaz-sharif

 

Here is a list of country´s he have businesses in.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/tracking-trumps-web-of-conflicts/

 

If that report you've linked from The Guardian is in any way accurate, it and Trump make me want to gag...

[Slip]

2 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

Naming a criminal's religion is not discriminatory, nor is it racist.  To suggest otherwise shows people as captives of political correctness.

 

It is giving information just as a Hispanic, or a black, or a Hindu, or a Brit, etc., could be identified as such.  Religion, nationality, and skin colour intentionally mixed.

Abhorrent.  How do you intend on identifying a 'Brit' for example?    Luckily for you, Trump and those like you, it is easy to identify spics, n*ggers, and rag-heads by sight.  

Welcome to the new America.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

Is It possible he could be doing both, and If they are coincident, Is there a problem?

Even Trump wiping his butt Is a problem for the left.

He's certainly not doing both when he leaves out countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (and a few others) that deserve to be on the exclusion list as much or more than some of the less significant countries that are on the list.

 

The list is pretty much aimed at the small fry countries of terrorism, but ignores the more prominent countries that, in terms of terrorism and support for it, are just as bad or worse.

 

[Skywalker69]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If that report you've linked from The Guardian is in any way accurate, it and Trump make me want to gag...

Here are some more links on the subject.

https://www.google.se/search?q=trump+talk+with+president+of+pakistan&oq=trump+talk+with+president+of+pakistan&aqs=chrome..69i57.14168j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[marcofunny]

The Saudis are smart, they export their shit everywhere. Other people follow it and get banned but not the Saudis. I wonder who's supporting them even in  the trump admin.

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by marcofunny

[Skywalker69]

4 minutes ago, marcofunny said:

The Saudis are smart, they export their shit everywhere. Other people follow it and get banned but not the Saudis. I wonder who's supporting them even in  the trump admin.

 

Donald Trump has blamed Saudi Arabia for the 9/11 terrorist attacks – but is still doing business there, it has emerged.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-saudi-arabia-911-business-deals-a7038991.html

[MadMuhummad]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Banning all visitors or immigrants from a given country when 99.9% of its citizens practice a given religion is religious discrimination. Very un-American.

It's not a ban, just a temporary hiatus until the US nails down their screening processes. 

[Slip]

2 minutes ago, MadMuhummad said:

It's not a ban, just a temporary hiatus until the US nails down their screening processes. 

so an English word for it would be what?  Ban.

[Prbkk]

30 minutes ago, midas said:

 

 

Saudi Arabia should be the first one on the list

 

The fact that Saudi Arabia spends ZILLIONS in the US....weapons, military hardware, education and training, many types of services, property and infrastructure....together with the fact that 23/24 of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi....is completely coincidental. Crush the hopes and dreams of a few desperate Syrian families trying to escape but don't mess with those nice folks in the House of Saud.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Prbkk

[WaywardWind]

2 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

Naming a criminal's religion is not discriminatory, nor is it racist.  To suggest otherwise shows people as captives of political correctness.

 

It is giving information just as a Hispanic, or a black, or a Hindu, or a Brit, etc., could be identified as such.  Religion, nationality, and skin colour intentionally mixed.

I had no idea that obtaining a green card or a refugee visa was a criminal act.  Learn something new every day.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't know if there's a separate thread of this latest development, but I'm seeing news reports today indicating a number of federal judges in different jurisdictions have issued stay orders/temporary injunctions to halt the pending deportations of people who had just been arriving to the U.S. with valid green cards or who were U.S. government employees or their families.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/28/federal-judge-stays-deportations-trump-muslim-executive-order

 

That's certainly the right thing to do. While I support the general notion of the order, the U.S. ought NOT be applying it to employees of the U.S. government and their immediate families, and others who have already received U.S. government approvals and are already in the U.S.

 

 

The New York Times has a similar report, and also gives their summary of what Trump's order actually has done:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

 

Quote

 

The president’s order, enacted with the stroke of a pen at 4:42 p.m. Friday, suspended entry of all refugees to the United States for 120 days, barred Syrian refugees indefinitely, and blocked entry into the United States for 90 days for citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

The Department of Homeland Security said that the order also barred green card holders from those countries from re-entering the United States. In a briefing for reporters, White House officials said that green card holders from the seven affected countries who are outside the United States would need a case-by-case waiver to return.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[MadMuhummad]

9 minutes ago, Slip said:

so an English word for it would be what?  Ban.

Last time I checked it meant:

 

a pause or break in continuity in a sequence or activity.

 

The word has been used in the English language since the 16th century, so I guess it means what I meant it to mean.

Edited January 29, 2017 by MadMuhummad

[Slip]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I don't know if there's a separate thread of this latest development, but I'm seeing news reports today indicating a number of federal judges in different jurisdictions have issued stay orders/temporary injunctions to halt the pending deportations of people who had just been arriving to the U.S. with valid green cards or who were U.S. government employees or their families.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/28/federal-judge-stays-deportations-trump-muslim-executive-order

 

That's certainly the right thing to do. While I support the general notion of the order, the U.S. ought NOT be applying it to employees of the U.S. government and their immediate families, and others who have already received U.S. government approvals and are already in the U.S.

 

Regardless of the situation, the oompha in chief should not be breaking federal US law in order to throw fresh meat to his supporters.  Of course this will become a problem for him if his term lasts beyond the honey-moon period, but that is not the problem of the thinking members of the world community.

As an outsider, before I found this all good 'banter', but I have become quite worried that this element of the US will do long term damage not only to the rest of the world, but even their own country.

 

From 'som nam na' to 'oh! are you ok, sorry about your bad luck with that, by the way is there anything you need?'

[WaywardWind]

28 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I did wonder about that issue, namely, people from the excluded countries list who may happen to already been working as employees or contractors of the U.S. government, military, etc.

 

I certainly would have thought there ought to be an exception in that kind of exclusion order for the immediate families of foreign nationals employed by the U.S.  If there isn't, there certainly should be.

 

 

There is such a visa, (an SIV) although very difficult to obtain.  One such individual (Hameed Darweesh) was detained with his wife and 3 children last night at JFK for 19 hours; he was released after 19 hours only after the intervention of two members of Congress.

 

He had worked as a translator and logistics coordinator for the US military in Iraq, and faced significant danger if he remained in Iraq.

[Slip]

2 hours ago, USPatriot said:

Without the electoral college NY CA IL have enough votes to elect the president

It's pretty sure what the electoral college does- just what it set out to do, prevent one-man-one-vote in the U.S.  Whether or not that is a good thing is another matter.  One thing it isn't is actually democratic.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

There is such a visa, (an SIV) although very difficult to obtain.  One such individual (Hameed Darweesh) was detained with his wife and 3 children last night at JFK for 19 hours; he was released after 19 hours only after the intervention of two members of Congress.

 

He had worked as a translator and logistics coordinator for the US military in Iraq, and faced significant danger if he remained in Iraq.

That was my point. And that's guy's case was one of those mentioned in The Guardian's report.

 

Trump's order should have made some kind of allowance for those kinds of individuals, but unfortunately, with Trump and Co. really not being details kind of guys, it didn't.  Good idea, but poor, ill-considered implementation. Perhaps rushing post-Inaug. to take the focus off of all of his various blunders and foot-in-the-mouth missteps.

 

BTW, for the record, IMHO, it also should NOT apply to existing U.S. green card holders who have already gone thru the process to obtain and be approved for those cards, regardless of whether they're still in the U.S. or have traveled abroad for some reason. Those are people with existing legal permission to stay in the U.S.  Another mistake or oversight in the government's implementation of this.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

33 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I don't know if there's a separate thread of this latest development, but I'm seeing news reports today indicating a number of federal judges in different jurisdictions have issued stay orders/temporary injunctions to halt the pending deportations of people who had just been arriving to the U.S. with valid green cards or who were U.S. government employees or their families.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/28/federal-judge-stays-deportations-trump-muslim-executive-order

 

That's certainly the right thing to do. While I support the general notion of the order, the U.S. ought NOT be applying it to employees of the U.S. government and their immediate families, and others who have already received U.S. government approvals and are already in the U.S.

 

 

The New York Times has a similar report, and also gives their summary of what Trump's order actually has done:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

 

BTW, I see there is a separate TVF thread on the court rulings temporarily halting parts of Trump's order (for those who had already landed in the U.S.). So at least for now temporarily, those folks cannot be deported, pending future rulings by the courts.

 

And another thread here:

 

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[F4UCorsair]

52 minutes ago, MadMuhummad said:

It's not a ban, just a temporary hiatus until the US nails down their screening processes. 

Deleted....wrong quote

Edited January 29, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[Skywalker69]

Judge Blocks Trump Order on Refugees Amid Chaos and Outcry Worldwide.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?emc=edit_na_20170128&nl=breaking-news&nlid=76310506&ref=cta&_r=0

[USPatriot]

1 hour ago, WaywardWind said:

NY: 29 electoral votes

CA: 55 EVs

IL: 20 EVs

Total: 104

 

You need a new calculator - it takes 270 to win.

Popular vote   hence the reason for the electoral college 

[F4UCorsair]

1 hour ago, Slip said:

Abhorrent.  How do you intend on identifying a 'Brit' for example?    Luckily for you, Trump and those like you, it is easy to identify spics, n*ggers, and rag-heads by sight.  

Welcome to the new America.

Huh???

 

You're having some difficulty with the language?

 

When I say 'Identify', I mean nominate a nationality, colour or religion for the criminal.

 

In the simplistic sense, a passport would Identify a person.

 

  .

Edited January 29, 2017 by F4UCorsair