SWEDEN AT BREAKING POINT: Police make urgent plea for help as violent crime spirals

[lovelomsak]

19 hours ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

You have blocked nothing. You do not control this thread. I issued a clear challenge for you to discuss immigration policy instead of your usual anti-immigrant rant. You chose to request that post be deleted.

 

Again, in this post you claim that Sweden's descent into a 'replica' of the immigrant's homeland is well document without providing any demonstration of this beyond what other anti-immigrant posters have posted here. You perpetuate a bubble of ignorance and when challenged you run to mommy.

 

My posts contained no personal insult but certainly did call out your bigoted opinion and your lack of specifics. I have also called out the lack of credibility of such sources that you present and in one case the fact that you presented one source that proved the opposite of what you said.

 

All the complaints to mommy will not help change the rubbish you post into objective, reasoned and evidenced based discussion. Prepare to be challenged not his constant by those of us who refuse to swallow anti-immigrant bigotry as objective reality.

Why do you not leave flustered alone. You guys who keep yapping show me the proof are the real problem Unable to understand the situation and keep spouting show me the proof. The proof is there you just refuse to accept it. I am not flustered mommy but I think he has better perspective on the issue than perhaps you do. I suggest you go look somewhere else to pick a fight.

 

Edited February 14, 2017 by lovelomsak

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

32 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Why do you not leave flustered alone. You guys who keep yapping show me the proof are the real problem Unable to understand the situation and keep spouting show me the proof. The proof is there you just refuse to accept it. I am not flustered mommy but I think he has better perspective on the issue than perhaps you do. I suggest you go look somewhere else to pick a fight.

 

The anti-immigrant rants clearly concur with your world view. You therefore take this as license to attempt to bully and threaten other members.

 

Go look somewhere else or what?

 

Are you able to provide any credible analysis that might give some insight into Sweden's immigration policy? Analysis that does not come from the same biased and extreme sources that we have already seen. Analysis that deals with specifics and not generalizations. Analysis that is not tainted by bigotry? If so, then happy to discuss further.

 

Otherwise this is just a mouthy threat.

[lovelomsak]

You sure like that word analysis. Is that the new buzz word to put other's on the defence? 

 You are absolutely right his rants do concur with my world view. That is not a problem is it. 

  No one here has to prove anything to any one else in the forum. And for people to demand it is in my humble opinion juvenile and aggressive  

 It appears you seem to be of the mind the horses have  to be out of the barn before you will admit the door should have been closed. And in all likelyhood you would hinder all who try to close the door before it happened.

  Either that or you are just to brilliant and intelligent to be in forum of such mortal's. Must be painful for you to even waste your valuable time here. 

 I can only hope you can find a forum with members who are at your esteem high level and can actively communicate with you.. 

  So it appears I must please ask you to take your fight somewhere else. Where your level of questions can be answered. Perhaps try a political science form. Or a Swedish government sight that issue's updates on immigration policy.

[DILLIGAD]

Sounds a bundle of laughs!


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[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

46 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

You sure like that word analysis. Is that the new buzz word to put other's on the defence? 

 You are absolutely right his rants do concur with my world view. That is not a problem is it. 

  No one here has to prove anything to any one else in the forum. And for people to demand it is in my humble opinion juvenile and aggressive  

 It appears you seem to be of the mind the horses have  to be out of the barn before you will admit the door should have been closed. And in all likelyhood you would hinder all who try to close the door before it happened.

  Either that or you are just to brilliant and intelligent to be in forum of such mortal's. Must be painful for you to even waste your valuable time here. 

 I can only hope you can find a forum with members who are at your esteem high level and can actively communicate with you.. 

  So it appears I must please ask you to take your fight somewhere else. Where your level of questions can be answered. Perhaps try a political science form. Or a Swedish government sight that issue's updates on immigration policy.

 

Nope. Not going anywhere.

 

I choose not to be patronized by you. However, to respond to your comments at face value, I can accept that not everyone is familiar with Political Economy Analysis or using such tools in policy advocacy. Since that is my job, it comes easier to me. Recognizing this, I still maintain that discussing an issue in the face of views tainted with prejudice and assumptions is not constructive. As with political polemic, the only response is more polemic or to expose fallacies and ridicule.

 

Let's examine some of the common anti-muslim immigration tropes - an undefined 'they' want to:

 

implement Sharia law - I have seen very few people discuss Sharia Law as a specific set of legal principles and it appears that most people have some hysterical idea of barbaric practices like cutting off hands of thieves or something;

outbreed the host population because there is a belief that increasing percentages of muslims in a population erases the host culture. These assertions are made with no real critical analysis e.g. the idea that as immigrants benefit from education, future generations would have a lower birthrate just as occurs with the host population; nobody assesses the impact of the host culture on the immigrants in terms of their belief systems and cultural habits and only push the line that muslims are congenitally unable to integrate which is demonstrably false;

conform with the strictures of the Koran which apparently requires them to kill all non muslims, never marry outside the religion, kill apostates etc. It seems that all of the posts by non muslims on the Koran have some violently extreme interpretation that is taken from extreme sources.

 

These are just some of the ideas that are pushed by the anti-immigrant bigots. When asked for evidence, we get skewed statistics that are frequently out of context or easily debunked. We get anecdotal narratives of what someone's cousin experienced. We get beat ups about non existent no go areas and how muslim immigrants have 'destroyed' people's home towns in the British midlands or wherever. We do not get serious examination of the basis of claims or assertions or the presentation of a set of statistics.

 

What is being said by the anti-immigrant bigots now was said about the Italians and Irish in America at the turn of the 20th century. It was said about the Souther Europeans and Levant immigrants to Australia in the 50's,  Vietnamese boat people in the 70's and the Khmer in the 80's. 

 

All countries have immigration policy. Mostly it is based on explicit principles and implemented with objective judgement. This is something that can be analyzed and discussed reasonably and without vilification. The anti-immigrant rants that the bigots post cannot. If you oppose immigration, then you should be able to make a case for this that is not based on prejudice and falsehoods.

 

So, no. I am not going anywhere. I will not be bullied by threats that you couch as 'suggestions' and people can hide in their 'ignore' safe place or run to mommy to have the words they don't like removed but that will not stop me from calling out bigotry and prejudice. From your comments directed at me, I do not believe that you are worth the time it took to write this post but who knows, a lot of you claim that those of us that oppose you cannot discuss things reasonably which seems to mean that we do not swallow the crap that is being peddled without question.

 

I have no interest in changing minds. I have an interest in exposing fools and seeing that a certain level of integrity prevails.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.  

[AGLV0121]

On 2/14/2017 at 7:07 AM, Shawn0000 said:

 

I think a lot of people have a problem with Islam for things like instructing to kill infidels, but of course the same could be said for Christianity or Judaism, most of the nasty stuff is in all three books after all.

This passage about killing infidels being in all three books, here quoted from the Bible.

This is actually originally from the Torah, but just as it was carried over into the Quran, it was also carried into the new testaments of the Bible.

Sharia, Halacha and Canon law, all pretty similar, so really it is that all the religions have bad bits if you want to find them and some Muslims are bad, and then of course there are also hate preaching Christians and Jews as well, they are just less common.

 

 

Right, but the only one who apply it consider it verbatim

Edited February 16, 2017 by AGLV0121

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/14/2017 at 6:27 PM, Shawn0000 said:

That's just an assumption, you assume that they want their welfare to equal a working wage, why do you not assume that they want a job?  There is very high unemployment in Malmo, that does not automatically translate to them being layabouts just because they are reducing to laying about, I think you will find that the vast majority of immigrants arrive hoping to get a job and to succeed, only to become disheartened once they find themselves living in a deprived area among thousands of unemployed others.  And welfare states like Sweden are the most successful societies in the world, with the highest levels of life satisfaction and strongest economies.  I would rather say that the failures are those opposing welfare, such as the USA, where huge numbers of people live in abject poverty, crime levels soar, life satisfaction levels lowering and economy faltering.

Then, one would have to ask why the Swedish authorities are sending immigrants to an area of high unemployment where they will not be able to find work?

High levels of welfare payouts are only possible when the recipients are not a significant % of the population. By allowing high levels of immigration that increases unemployed numbers, welfare countries will not be able to afford to continue being generous, and then it all falls down.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/14/2017 at 11:44 PM, Shawn0000 said:

This is an editorial posted at the time of the riots, it tells the other side of the story for once, not only where there is rioting and what they have done, but also why they are rioting.  And it has nothing to do with Muslims or immigrants, but living conditions.  I have posted it in full against forum rules as the original is written in Swedish.

 

http://www.dt.se/opinion/debatt/debatt-jag-kan-ge-dig-en-rundtur-i-verklighetens-tjarna-angar

Sounds like Sweden isn't such a great place after all. Sounds a bit like a s*** hole. So why do so may say it's a wonderful place and so many people from elsewhere want to go live there?

BTW, I don't believe that many western people want to go there- could that be because it's so PC and highly taxed?

[Fredward]

On 1/29/2017 at 2:58 AM, Thechook said:

Melbourne Australia is having a huge problem with Sudanese refugees who have the city living in fear.  Some cultures just don't fit in and can't give up their old ways.

Do you have proof of this?

 

I visited Brisbane years ago and saw many racist attacks on minorities , just on the bus alone ! I spoke to some locals and they said it's a Xenophobic reaction, not based on anything other than those offenders being 'backwards'. Therefore I find it very hard to lump all immigrants together as being innately 'evil', do you even know how people become immigrants or even the level of vetting needed to go through to become one? Surely you're an expert on this topic, which cultures don't fit in? I'm curious as to why this might be. I also spoke to the Aboriginals who all said feel like second class citizens to the invading occupiers.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Fredward said:

Do you have proof of this?

 

I visited Brisbane years ago and saw many racist attacks on minorities , just on the bus alone ! I spoke to some locals and they said it's a Xenophobic reaction, not based on anything other than those offenders being 'backwards'. Therefore I find it very hard to lump all immigrants together as being innately 'evil', do you even know how people become immigrants or even the level of vetting needed to go through to become one? Surely you're an expert on this topic, which cultures don't fit in? I'm curious as to why this might be. I also spoke to the Aboriginals who all said feel like second class citizens to the invading occupiers.

It is true foreign born gangs, incorporating  other ethic groups, have contributed to rising street gang criminality. e.g. Victorian government statistics show a very small number of Sudanese youths with proportionally high crime rates.

 

Proportionally, Sudanese-born youths are vastly over-represented in the statistics, responsible for 7.44 per cent of alleged home invasions, 5.65 per cent of car thefts and 13.9 per cent of aggravated robberies.

The latest census data shows people born in Sudan or South Sudan made up 0.11 per cent of Victoria's population in 2011.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-04/statistics-raise-questions-about-calls-to-deport-youth-offenders/8087410

[LammyTS1]

Have we confirmed the reason for all of this?

Why is Sweden at breaking point?

Why do the police have no control?

Why have native Swedes turned to such violence?


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[Flustered]

Well, most of us have. There are 1 or 2 who believe it is the Swedes who are to blame but the majority have it nailed. (and without making it personal)

[simple1]

1 hour ago, LammyTS1 said:

Have we confirmed the reason for all of this?

Why is Sweden at breaking point?

Why do the police have no control?

Why have native Swedes turned to such violence?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

To answer your question, no. As a baseline why not research Swedish government official reports, rather than opinions and quotes from dubious websites, as to date very sparse on facts, if any. Look forward to your posting of in context empirical outcomes of your efforts and to re-emphasise, not your opinions.

[DILLIGAD]

To answer your question, no. As a baseline why not research Swedish government official reports, rather than opinions and quotes from dubious websites, as to date very sparse on facts, if any. Look forward to your posting of in context empirical outcomes of your efforts and to re-emphasise, not your opinions.

If everything in Sweden is so 'PC', why do you think 'Swedish government reports' will show the 100% truth???? Surely they 'may' not cover issues that might upset some groups of people.
I cannot, however suggest an alternative.


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[simple1]

18 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

If everything in Sweden is so 'PC', why do you think 'Swedish government reports' will show the 100% truth???? Surely they 'may' not cover issues that might upset some groups of people.
I cannot, however suggest an alternative.


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Swedish government reports have included stats on foreigners criminality in Sweden, , though not the detail of their ethnicity, but nationality background can be cross checked by number of foreigners by country of origin, so your opinion is mainly incorrect. It's also true that stats on various crimes and trends in Sweden, with some notes, are available from Swedish government sources.

Edited February 18, 2017 by simple1

[thai3]

5 hours ago, LammyTS1 said:

Have we confirmed the reason for all of this?

Why is Sweden at breaking point?

Why do the police have no control?

Why have native Swedes turned to such violence?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

I. Islamic immigrants who do not integrate and who rape steal and riot

2.Fear of being labeled racist if they take action against immigrant gangs

3, They have not

[Fredward]

1 minute ago, thai3 said:

I. Islamic immigrants who do not integrate and who rape steal and riot

2.Fear of being labeled racist if they take action against immigrant gangs

3, They have not

No facts or reasoning behind the facts. Just opinion. Immigration is not the problem. It's the governments accepting the immigrants that need to reconsider their vetting process. Stop blaming people from the countries that legally use means of leaving a bad situation for a better one. If you lived in shit all your life and saw an opportunity to leave it all behind and finally catch a break wouldn't you? You talk as if these people with undesirable behavior had the same opportunities you had to be normal.

[thai3]

why not blame the people doing the raping and the rioting?, that's the Swedish problem they turned a blind eye too long and now it's too late, Sweedistan is here to stay. Swedes opinion, with some evidence for you to ignore

 

 

Edited February 18, 2017 by thai3

[Shawn0000]

3 hours ago, thai3 said:

why not blame the people doing the raping and the rioting?, that's the Swedish problem they turned a blind eye too long and now it's too late, Sweedistan is here to stay. Swedes opinion, with some evidence for you to ignore

 

 

 

Why not educate yourself as to why Sweden appears to be off the scale with the worlds highest per capita rape stats rather than just believing the first tabloid you come across?  They record rapes in a completely different way to other countries, whereas everywhere else records multiple rapes of one person by one person, even if it is over the course of months, as being one victim of rape, in Sweden each and every rape is counted individually, they also count lesser sexual assaults as rape that most countries would not.  In truth there is no rape epidemic, just a change in recording method and the usual foreign tabloids willful conning of the ignorant. 

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

They have not exactly legalized adults having sexual relations with children, they have accepted refugees who are already married despite being children, it is a very difficult problem, on the one hand no one wants to be condoning child brides, but on the other hand, what is actually best for the girl?  If she arrives with one person, her husband, knows no one else, trusts no one else, and is genuinely happy with her husband then maybe it is the right decision to let them stay together rather than separate them.  Also many of them already have children, what can you do if an underage refugee has already started a family by the time they arrive?  I really don't think we should be breaking up families just because in one country the law says 14, another 15, another 16 and another 18, a family is a family.  Now, it would be a very different matter if they were allowing people to marry children in Sweden, but that is not the case,

 

Sweden changed its marriage laws to make marriage under the age of 18 illegal, even if the marriage was entered into abroad.  The only exception being if the underage female is already pregnant, as is alleged in the article.

 

http://www.thelocal.se/20120524/41012

 

Note that Snopes has called out Speisa as a fake news website.

 

[Shawn0000]

13 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Sweden changed its marriage laws to make marriage under the age of 18 illegal, even if the marriage was entered into abroad.  The only exception being if the underage female is already pregnant, as is alleged in the article.

 

 

 

http://www.thelocal.se/20120524/41012

 

 

 

Note that Snopes has called out Speisa as a fake news website.

 

 

 

Thanks, there are however a number of married under 18 year old refugees who have been accepted and allowed to remain with their husbands in adult centers, not all being pregnant or having children, this was contrary to normal Swedish law but decided in court as being beneficial to the child, and I believe that is the story that Speisa has picked up on and distorted beyond recognition in order to suit their agenda.

[Shawn0000]

17 minutes ago, Flustered said:

It's about time you came up with hard facts and figures. The case against immigrants is well proven and if Swedes are retaliating, wouldn't you if you had your environment destroyed and replaced with another Syria or Somalia.

 

You are always demanding other FMs prove their case while you do nothing, you just misquote like in the Paris thread where you accused me of a statement from another FM and have not had the decency to apologise.

 

You're telling people to come up with hard facts and quotes and then saying that the case against immigrants is well proven?  Hilarious!  In the case of Sweden, the case FOR immigrants is evidenced by immigration taking them out of an agrarian economy and into the industrial revolution, they owe everything to immigration.  Perhaps you can post some hard facts that demonstrate this mysterious case against immigration?

 

You go on to claim that Swedes environment has been replaced with another Syria or Somalia, that is just utter nonsense, Sweden has one of the highest life satisfaction levels in the world, the isolated incidents you keep seeing in your tabloid are not reflective of life for the majority.  And the backlashes you condone include at least one mass murderer, so no, I would not do the same faced with immigration, would you?

 

[Shawn0000]

6 minutes ago, AGLV0121 said:

 

I googled your quote and found out there is a compete Wikipedia tab about "Racism in Israel".

This I know, even Ethiopian Jews are subjected to it, but then I also found out there is a WP tab for racism in the USA, Racism in Spain (where they mention 'blood purity'), Racism in France, etc. That's right, most every country!

Yes, every country has some racists, but we were talking specifically about people who believe that they are following their religion by being racist, and specifically by killing other races for their religion.

[Fredward]

12 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Firstly, in no way is Islam a culture of rape, in the Quran rape is considered oppression and is stated as being worse than murder.  Some have quoted passages from the Quran that speak of lack of chastity with regard to slaves being acceptable and said that this condones rape, but they take them out of context, they never quote the paragraph next to them that says that if the slave desires chastity then they must not be compelled by a man, the verses they quote state that it is not a sin for a man to not be chaste with his slave, but makes clear that the slave must be willing.  I am afraid you have been the victim of sadly desperate Islamophobes.

 

Secondly, how do you know the age of the prophets wife?  No one knows, it does not say in the Quran, mathematicians have attempted to calculate her age based on other events in the Quran but all they can say for certain is that she was between the ages of 5 and 19.  The 9 years old thing comes from one Imam who once claimed she was 9, he did so without evidence but people have been hanging on to his words ever since, another example of just how sad the Islamophobes really are when they have to cling to one Imams speech to attempt to undermine an entire religion.

The struggle against ignorance is real, respect for educating the sheep.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts, offensive posts and off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[thai3]

55 minutes ago, Fredward said:

The struggle against ignorance is real, respect for educating the sheep.

Indeed, most Muslims cannot actually understand the Koran as it's in Arabic, they learn it by heart and have it interpreted by 'Scholars'. The level of ignorance in the Muslim world about their own history and that of the appalling actions of the prophet is terrible, as you say a struggle to educate them when they have been brainwashed since birth.

[heroKK]

[Shawn0000]

18 minutes ago, thai3 said:

Indeed, most Muslims cannot actually understand the Koran as it's in Arabic, they learn it by heart and have it interpreted by 'Scholars'. The level of ignorance in the Muslim world about their own history and that of the appalling actions of the prophet is terrible, as you say a struggle to educate them when they have been brainwashed since birth.

 

Yeah, it's only been translated into every major Asian, African and European language, must be impossible!

[thai3]

14 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Yeah, it's only been translated into every major Asian, African and European language, must be impossible!

You will not find a translation in any mosque, translating the word of God is haram. If they do read translations they have even less excuse for not seeing the horror that their belief system is.

Edited February 19, 2017 by thai3