Britain's Brexit bill clears first legislative hurdle

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

Haven't materialised yet!

 

It will take several years for the full economic effects of Brexit to be felt by the UK; and a lot depends on as yet unknown factors such as the final trade agreement reached between the UK and EU.

 

Investors, manufacturers etc. are mainly waiting to see what happens. For example; UK car production drives to 17-year high but investment stalls on ‘uncertainty’

 

 

But the lie by remain was this would all start to happen immediately after a vote to leave. And they carried on with it for several months after the referendum, until the economists finally admitted they'd got it badly wrong. Strangely, some on ThaiVisa still claim the economy is currently performing badly. I guess it's just too hard for them to swallow their pride.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

I have never claimed that we are not 'controlled' by EU laws, that is that EU laws do not apply in the UK. What is ignorant is the claim that the EU is undemocratic. All EU laws are made and agreed by elected representatives; the heads of state of each member, the council of ministers or the European Parliament.

what you say above is not correct,

you should read up on how directives can be passed in EU

 I have; and suggest that you do the same!

 

How EU decisions are made is a good place to start.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

 

what you say above is not correct,

you should read up on how directives can be passed in EU

 

 

however,

what is always worth keeping in mind by those in the UK that complain about lack of sovereignty;

everything in the EEC/EU that reduces UK sovereignty has been agreed to by the UK

 

 

And agreed against the wishes of a large tract of the population. Hence the brexit vote.

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

But the lie by remain was this would all start to happen immediately after a vote to leave. And they carried on with it for several months after the referendum, until the economists finally admitted they'd got it badly wrong. Strangely, some on ThaiVisa still claim the economy is currently performing badly. I guess it's just too hard for them to swallow their pride.

 Maybe it's because i am actually in the UK that I remember it differently; all the forecasts, good and bad, made before and since the vote by both sides are just that; forecasts.

 

Even if one considers pre vote economic forecasts made by the Remain campaign to be a lie, that is still just one lie that the Brexiteers have been able to come up with; compared to the many lies by the Brexit campaign.

[Khun Han]

Of course, the really big 'lie', the one that always comes up is the £350 million a week one. Granted, this doesn't take into account the rebate. But the EU chooses where the rebate is spent. Secondly, the leave campaign said lets spend it on the NHS. Thirdly, we haven't left the EU yet, we are still paying our subs.

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Maybe it's because i am actually in the UK that I remember it differently; all the forecasts, good and bad, made before and since the vote by both sides are just that; forecasts.

 

Even if one considers pre vote economic forecasts made by the Remain campaign to be a lie, that is still just one lie that the Brexiteers have been able to come up with; compared to the many lies by the Brexit campaign.

 

You see, you view the lies from remain with rose-tinted spectacles, but are utterly evangelical about the accuracy of anything said by leave. It's all a matter of perception.

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You see, you view the lies from remain with rose-tinted spectacles, but are utterly evangelical about the accuracy of anything said by leave. It's all a matter of perception.

You, yourself, have mentioned the biggest lie by the Brexit campaign

10 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Of course, the really big 'lie', the one that always comes up is the £350 million a week one.

I have previously provided links to many others; which no one has denied or even attempted to disprove.

 

All the Brexiteers can come up with as a Remain lie is the various economic forecasts.

 

 

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Granted, this doesn't take into account the rebate. But the EU chooses where the rebate is spent.

 Really?

 

I can find no evidence of this; will you favour us with your source?

[evadgib]

Breaking news

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38854095

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Really?

 

I can find no evidence of this; will you favour us with your source?

 

Sorry, my mistake. I was getting rebates and grants muddled. The rebate is netted down off the big payment.

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

You, yourself, have mentioned the biggest lie by the Brexit campaign

I have previously provided links to many others; which no one has denied or even attempted to disprove.

 

All the Brexiteers can come up with as a Remain lie is the various economic forecasts.

 

 

 

And the George Osborne lie about the emergency recession budget that you keep trying to play down. But, like I said, it's all about perception. You only see heinous lies from brexiters and misunderstandings/minor mistakes from remainers. And you will no doubt continue to present your slanted take on this (and no doubt continue to believe it). Up to you.

[Laughing Gravy]

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

I'm asking for your opinion. No, really. How do you think the economy would be doing?

That is easy it would be doing the same. But the doomsday predictions were never given by the leave campaign. If you ask me that question in ten years, I would say that the economy is doing much better than it did whilst in the EU and we will not have to give loads of money away, we can make our own laws and decide who we trade with, we can fish in our own waters. I could go on.

[Rigby40]

Sending our love from the US to all you Brexiters out there.

[TKDfella]

17 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I also remember the portents of doom regarding the economic sky falling down.

 

They didn't materialise either.

 

The Bank of England has updated its growth forecast for the UK, commenting that the anticipated fall in the economy has not materialized and it has, in fact grown since the Brexit vote. This is also known as an admission that the Bank was wrong ( not for the first time) in predicting doom and gloom for the UK. If only that MINORITY of voters against Brexit would accept the fact, and put their backs into talking the country up instead of spreading the same gloom and doom that the BoE had predicted, we might find that the World will welcome new trade agreements with a successful economic base... and the Exchange Rate might receive a boost too!
 

 

http://www.whatinvestment.co.uk/schroders-investors-expect-economic-slowdown-2553270/

Agreed! The voters have spoken so let's get on with it. It will do the country more harm to keep talking about blocking Brexit.

[the guest]

I think UK will be relieved to bail-out on a sinking EU ship. 

[7by7]

16 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

And the George Osborne lie about the emergency recession budget that you keep trying to play down. But, like I said, it's all about perception. You only see heinous lies from brexiters and misunderstandings/minor mistakes from remainers. And you will no doubt continue to present your slanted take on this (and no doubt continue to believe it). Up to you.

 

OK, I'll accept your assertion that Osborne's 'threat' of an austerity emergency budget was a lie.

 

So, that's two from the Remain campaign. Still way less than the lies from the Brexit campaign.

[7by7]

10 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That is easy it would be doing the same. But the doomsday predictions were never given by the leave campaign. If you ask me that question in ten years, I would say that the economy is doing much better than it did whilst in the EU and we will not have to give loads of money away, we can make our own laws and decide who we trade with, we can fish in our own waters. I could go on.

 If your crystal ball is as accurate as you think, can you give me next week's lottery numbers?

 

We are already 'allowed' to fish in our own waters, and those of other EU countries as well. If post Brexit we stop EU countries from fishing in our waters, do you really think they'd let us continue to fish in theirs?

Is the EU ‘pinching our fish’?

Quote

The UK’s share of the overall EU fishing catch grew between 2004 and 2014. In 2004 the UK had the fourth largest catch of any EU country at 652,000 tonnes, by 2014 this had grown to 752,000 tonnes and the second largest catch of any country in the EU.

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by 7by7

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

OK, I'll accept your assertion that Osborne's 'threat' of an austerity emergency budget was a lie.

 

So, that's two from the Remain campaign. Still way less than the lies from the Brexit campaign.

 

I don't know about you, but I consider a lying threat by no less a person than the Chancellor of the Exchequer to hammer the finances of every ordinary person in the UK if we vote leave, to be exponentially worse than some lesser politicians exaggerating the amount of money that could be made available to the NHS once we leave. All other lies pale into insignificance in comparison to this nasty, intimidatory one, coming from where it came.

 

And don't forget that he even got the German Exchequer in on his nonsense as a personal favour.

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I don't know about you, but I consider a lying threat by no less a person than the Chancellor of the Exchequer to hammer the finances of every ordinary person in the UK if we vote leave, to be exponentially worse than some lesser politicians exaggerating the amount of money that could be made available to the NHS once we leave. All other lies pale into insignificance in comparison to this nasty, intimidatory one, coming from where it came.

 

And don't forget that he even got the German Exchequer in on his nonsense as a personal favour.

So,  are you saying that the many lies of the Brexit campaign don't matter?

 

If you look at various vox pops both before and since the referendum, if you look at posts on various forums it is obvious that it was these lies which caused so many people to vote leave.

 

Lies which played on and fed people's prejudices and ignorance

 

But what's done is done; it just seem very strange that so many of those who supported Brexit, and won, are acting as if they were somehow robbed of victory!

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 I have; and suggest that you do the same!

 

How EU decisions are made is a good place to start.

 

Khun, I have worked with EU legal crap for more than 20 years and know a fair bit about it.

What you URL to above is a light hearted brief overview of some major aspects.

 

Your expose higher up is incomplete and does not cover the situations where the Commission can make

legal stuff on its own behalf.

 

[melvinmelvin]

21 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

And agreed against the wishes of a large tract of the population. Hence the brexit vote.

 

Yes, I think you have a good point there.

Still, the shitmakers are the UK politicians, not the EU redtapers.

 

[7by7]

54 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Khun, I have worked with EU legal crap for more than 20 years and know a fair bit about it.

What you URL to above is a light hearted brief overview of some major aspects.

 

European Commission at Work

Quote

EU decision-making involves three main institutions:

• the European Commission which represents the interests of the EU as a whole,
• the Council of the European Union which represents the individual member countries,
• the European Parliament, which represents EU citizens and is directly elected by them.

In principle, the European Commission proposes new laws, but it is the Council together with the Parliament that adopts them.  This is the EU's standard decision-making procedure (known as the "ordinary legislative procedure" or "codecision").

Special legislative procedures also exist where in certain cases legal acts may be adopted by the Council alone (after consulting the Parliament) or, more rarely, by the European Parliament alone (after consulting the Council).

 

58 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Your expose higher up is incomplete and does not cover the situations where the Commission can make

legal stuff on its own behalf.

From above link

Quote

The Council and the Parliament can give the Commission the power to adopt non-legislative acts.

• For instance, the Commission may need to bring non-essential elements of a law up to date with scientific progress or market developments.  These 'delegated acts' are scrutinised by the European Parliament and the Council.
• When the Commission adopts measures to ensure EU acts are implemented in a uniform way throughout the EU, these are implementing acts. Implementing acts are scrutinised by EU governments through the system known as comitology.

As someone who has "worked with EU legal crap for more than 20 years" you presumably know what "non-legislative" and "scrutinised" mean!

[Grouse]

7by7 I admire your stamina!

 

Sadly, some fools will never accept a FACT!

 

For me, the killer last week was the white paper stating that UK Parliament retained sovereignty throughout "even if sometimes it did not appear that way"

 

So, what is the Brexiteers list of "benefits" reduced to now? Too many Poles? Not enough bent bananas? I'm sure Sterling's collapse is worth it?

[melvinmelvin]

22 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

European Commission at Work

 

From above link

As someone who has "worked with EU legal crap for more than 20 years" you presumably know what "non-legislative" and "scrutinised" mean!

 

Yes. I do.

 

[Khun Han]

24 minutes ago, Grouse said:

7by7 I admire your stamina!

 

Sadly, some fools will never accept a FACT!

 

For me, the killer last week was the white paper stating that UK Parliament retained sovereignty throughout "even if sometimes it did not appear that way"

 

So, what is the Brexiteers list of "benefits" reduced to now? Too many Poles? Not enough bent bananas? I'm sure Sterling's collapse is worth it?

 

It's hardly surprising so many members have this guy on 'ignore'. I keep resisting the temptation to do so myself because there is always dark entertainment to be had from observing buffoonery .

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

It's hardly surprising so many members have this guy on 'ignore'. I keep resisting the temptation to do so myself because there is always dark entertainment to be had from observing buffoonery .

Be my guest!

 

Strangely, I see very few posts from the "so many members" that have me on ignore. I wonder why? Probably have little input of value on world affairs? Bless!

 

I don't ignore anybody; always good to get the full bandwidth of opinion.

 

Glad to see you've got your sense of humour back; you were vexed and ratty the other day ?

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Be my guest!

 

Strangely, I see very few posts from the "so many members" that have me on ignore. I wonder why? Probably have little input of value on world affairs? Bless!

 

I don't ignore anybody; always good to get the full bandwidth of opinion.

 

Glad to see you've got your sense of humour back; you were vexed and ratty the other day ?

 

Oh, I expect they're doing what you keep saying you're doing but never do: they're observing discussions which are going around in circles.

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Oh, I expect they're doing what you keep saying you're doing but never do: they're observing discussions which are going around in circles.

OK

 

 

[teatree]

20 hours ago, Grouse said:

7by7 I admire your stamina!

 

Sadly, some fools will never accept a FACT!

 

For me, the killer last week was the white paper stating that UK Parliament retained sovereignty throughout "even if sometimes it did not appear that way"

 

So, what is the Brexiteers list of "benefits" reduced to now? Too many Poles? Not enough bent bananas? I'm sure Sterling's collapse is worth it?

It is very simple.

 

The Commission proposes regulations, which are then rubber stamped by the EU parliament and then become law throughout the EU.  The UK parliament has no say on the matter and this is where the lack of sovereignty is.

[Grouse]

40 minutes ago, teatree said:

It is very simple.

 

The Commission proposes regulations, which are then rubber stamped by the EU parliament and then become law throughout the EU.  The UK parliament has no say on the matter and this is where the lack of sovereignty is.

No, you need to read up a bit more. 

 

The UK government and I are correct on this