Australian Medicare System

[4MyEgo]

Has anyone here from Australia who is a non resident for tax purposes, returned to Australia after 183 days out of Australia and made a claim after seeing a doctor and got reimbursed by Medicare ?  

[dbrenn]

Yes - but I am now living in Australia again.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

Yes - but I am now living in Australia again.

How long were you out of Australia as a non resident and then returned and made a claim with Medicare ?

Edited February 3, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[dbrenn]

22 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

How long were you out of Australia as a non resident and then returned and made a claim with Medicare ?

I was out for three years, and returned within the validity period of the Medicare card that was issued to me before I left. Was back one month and went to the doctor. The card still worked.

[4MyEgo]

13 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

I was out for three years, and returned within the validity period of the Medicare card that was issued to me before I left. Was back one month and went to the doctor. The card still worked.

That's for coming back to me and answering my question, I would have been outside Australia for 18 months and am hoping that the card still works, because I have my GP and 3 specialists to see, as well on stocking up on some lollies to keep me goings 555 

Edited February 4, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[dbrenn]

30 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

That's for coming back to me and answering my question, I would have been outside Australia for 18 months and am hoping that the card still works, because I have my GP and 3 specialists to see, as well on stocking up on some lollies to keep me goings 555 

If mine was still active after three years tax non resident, then you should be good to go after 18 months. 

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

If mine was still active after three years tax non resident, then you should be good to go after 18 months. 

I can only hope so, I read on their website that they cancel the card after 5 years, but if you are out of the country for more than 183 days you cannot claim Medicare.

 

If its not much to ask, what you did you go back and make a claim, the reason I ask is that technology makes changes pretty quick these days.

[dbrenn]

19 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I can only hope so, I read on their website that they cancel the card after 5 years, but if you are out of the country for more than 183 days you cannot claim Medicare.

 

If its not much to ask, what you did you go back and make a claim, the reason I ask is that technology makes changes pretty quick these days.

I went back in December and made a claim just last month. It would seem that the 183 day rule is not being enforced - yet. You can add your Medicare card to your myGov account and see it there if it is active, as mine was.

 

As you say, with linkage of more and more government departments, the chances are that the rule will be enforced sooner or later.

[4MyEgo]

27 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

I went back in December and made a claim just last month. It would seem that the 183 day rule is not being enforced - yet. You can add your Medicare card to your myGov account and see it there if it is active, as mine was.

 

As you say, with linkage of more and more government departments, the chances are that the rule will be enforced sooner or later.

Good thinking, I just checked MyGov and its still current to late 2019, "happy days are here", I hope, 1st stop GP when I pay and they swipe my Medicare card, if they reimburse me the $'s then its only a couple of days away till I see the specialists, then it will be a clean hit and run....555555

 

Thanks for your help once again, I have to say its criminal how they treat us expats, i.e. if you worked over 35 years and paid your taxes, then retired overseas prior to the old age pension age, you have to return for 2 years and stay in the country for that period before you can leave back overseas.
 

Edited February 4, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[mfd101]

Circumstances vary: In my case, because my sole incomes (CSS pension & investments) come from Oz, I remain a resident for tax purposes but with Medicare Levy exemption because resident (since Nov 2015) in Thailand. My Medicare card remains effective, as I understand, for 5 years but only of course within Oz - so when the heart attack or stroke happens, I have to catch a bus to BKK for 6 or 7 hours followed by a plane for 9 or 10 hours to get treatment ?

[Will27]

17 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Circumstances vary: In my case, because my sole incomes (CSS pension & investments) come from Oz, I remain a resident for tax purposes but with Medicare Levy exemption because resident (since Nov 2015) in Thailand. My Medicare card remains effective, as I understand, for 5 years but only of course within Oz - so when the heart attack or stroke happens, I have to catch a bus to BKK for 6 or 7 hours followed by a plane for 9 or 10 hours to get treatment ?

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you except I'm in the PSS.

 

I would like to know what gives you the impression that being on the pension makes you a resident for tax purposes.

[mfd101]

40 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you except I'm in the PSS.

 

I would like to know what gives you the impression that being on the pension makes you a resident for tax purposes.

You're right. It doesn't automatically follow. It was my choice but it seemed (and still does) to be the sensible thing given that the tax is minimal for us in Oz and the alternative of being in the Thai system is, at least for me, an unknown & likely to be unpredictable & variable. Combined with the Medicare Levy exemption, I'm pretty happy with how it's turned out. The monies certainly go a whole lot further here!

[Will27]

2 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

You're right. It doesn't automatically follow. It was my choice but it seemed (and still does) to be the sensible thing given that the tax is minimal for us in Oz and the alternative of being in the Thai system is, at least for me, an unknown & likely to be unpredictable & variable. Combined with the Medicare Levy exemption, I'm pretty happy with how it's turned out. The monies certainly go a whole lot further here!

I'm pretty sure most expats here would fit into the non-resident category.

 

I don't see how being a resident or non-resident would put you in the Thai system though.

 

Australia have self assessment so unless you get audited, you get assessed

on what you claim.

 

I'm pretty sure no one wants to "poke the bear" (ATO).

[mfd101]

28 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I'm pretty sure most expats here would fit into the non-resident category.

 

I don't see how being a resident or non-resident would put you in the Thai system though.

 

Australia have self assessment so unless you get audited, you get assessed

on what you claim.

 

I'm pretty sure no one wants to "poke the bear" (ATO).

I've forgotten the details now but I think it related to the threshold tax exemption - none available if you're a non-resident for tax purposes. Given that I have no Thai or other non-Oz income, I think the advice was that, if I became a non-res ftp then my tax in Oz would increase.

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

I've forgotten the details now but I think it related to the threshold tax exemption - none available if you're a non-resident for tax purposes. Given that I have no Thai or other non-Oz income, I think the advice was that, if I became a non-res ftp then my tax in Oz would increase.

I think that unless you fit into a certain criteria, i.e. own a property back in Australia, are too return to Australia, have a car, drivers licence, are a member of an association, etc etc, you might have a chance of retaining your residency as a resident and pay tax under the Australian taxation system, however nothing is cut and dry, as far as I know, as soon as you exit Australia for 183 days, you are deemed a non-resident.

 

Even though I had a property in Australia, the question asked will you be returning in say 2 years, with my reply being; I don't know, and their reply was, well then you would be a non-resident for tax purposes.

 

Moving a little off the topic though, if Medicare is still working for up to 5 years, that's pretty good, i.e. a small victory for us of those who have worked for a hell of a long time and paid their taxes to still have some kind of cover.

 

Personally I don't like the way expats have been treated with the 2 year pension waiting period if you are already out of the country, not able to vote and of course loss of Medicare cover, this is the only country in the world that treats it citizens in this way as far as I am aware. 

[4MyEgo]

22 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Circumstances vary: In my case, because my sole incomes (CSS pension & investments) come from Oz, I remain a resident for tax purposes but with Medicare Levy exemption because resident (since Nov 2015) in Thailand. My Medicare card remains effective, as I understand, for 5 years but only of course within Oz - so when the heart attack or stroke happens, I have to catch a bus to BKK for 6 or 7 hours followed by a plane for 9 or 10 hours to get treatment ?

Sorry, but I am at odds with your claim.

 

I have read the legislation, and its only as good as you interpret it, I also have investments in Australia, i.e. shares (non taxable fully franked or no dividends paid) and because I am a non-resident this is why there is no tax payable, tax on the term deposits are taxed at the withholding tax rate of 10%, this is all because I am out of the country for more then 183 days and my abode according to the legislation, can be a park where one resides, you do not have to have a property overseas, just a place you usually reside at.

 

The only real downfall of being a non resident is you apparently lose Medicare, cannot vote and have to return to Australia and stay their for 2 years to claim your old age pension, Medicare can be reinstated after you have been absent for more than 5 years, after you have returned and been in the country for 6 months, well that's my understanding and proving so by a copy of your lease, utility bills etc etc

 

So I fail to see how you can live outside of Australia for more than a 183 and claim to be a resident of Australia for tax purposes, not that I have your full story.

[mfd101]

Well, I'm no expert on any of this. I know only what my financial advisor and my accountant tell me. My recollection - as mentioned above - is that it was the continued eligibility for the tax-free threshold on income tax that was the decider in my case. And there was no mention of a time limit: it was presented as a choice I could make, one way or the other. Can't remember if I could change my mind later ? but I see no reason to at this stage.

 

I'm not eligible for the old age pension as my public service pension exceeds that and is for life, wherever I live.

 

As to Medicare, I have no intention of ever returning to live in Oz so have to either take out medical insurance here or alternatively (which is my choice, given my age) keep funds available for emergencies. Still, it's nice to know that there is at least some cover for the next 5 years (under 4 for me now) whenever I visit Oz.

[Will27]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

Well, I'm no expert on any of this. I know only what my financial advisor and my accountant tell me. My recollection - as mentioned above - is that it was the continued eligibility for the tax-free threshold on income tax that was the decider in my case. And there was no mention of a time limit: it was presented as a choice I could make, one way or the other. Can't remember if I could change my mind later ? but I see no reason to at this stage.

 

I'm not eligible for the old age pension as my public service pension exceeds that and is for life, wherever I live.

 

As to Medicare, I have no intention of ever returning to live in Oz so have to either take out medical insurance here or alternatively (which is my choice, given my age) keep funds available for emergencies. Still, it's nice to know that there is at least some cover for the next 5 years (under 4 for me now) whenever I visit Oz.

That really doesn't make any sense TBH. AFAIK, all residents are eligible for the tax free threshold.

 

You can change your mind anytime you want to. Just hope you don't get audited because at the end of the day,

you're responsible for your tax return, not your accountant or tax agent. There is a huge advantage (depending on your income level)

to being taxed as a resident as opposed to a non-resident IMO.

 

Like I've said previously, I think the vast majority of Aussies who live in Thailand full-time would be classed as non-residents for taxation purposes..

 

Let's just hope the ATO doesn't target us as a group.

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Well, I'm no expert on any of this. I know only what my financial advisor and my accountant tell me. My recollection - as mentioned above - is that it was the continued eligibility for the tax-free threshold on income tax that was the decider in my case. And there was no mention of a time limit: it was presented as a choice I could make, one way or the other. Can't remember if I could change my mind later ? but I see no reason to at this stage.

 

I'm not eligible for the old age pension as my public service pension exceeds that and is for life, wherever I live.

 

As to Medicare, I have no intention of ever returning to live in Oz so have to either take out medical insurance here or alternatively (which is my choice, given my age) keep funds available for emergencies. Still, it's nice to know that there is at least some cover for the next 5 years (under 4 for me now) whenever I visit Oz.

If your accountant and financial adviser at the time suggested you retain your residency, then I suppose you will have to go with that, I am no expert either.

 

My accountant on the other hand advised me to become a non resident as the tax benefits out weighed remaining a resident, suffice to say I pay zero tax, apart from the 10% withholding tax in term deposits.

 

Had I the choice to remain an Australian resident for tax purposes and have the threshold for both myself and my wife, then it would be better in that I would have access to Medicare in case of an emergency, and of course I would able to contribute to Medicare as per the levy surcharge, be able to vote, and get the old age pension when I get to the ripe old age of 67, having got rid of everything well before then, but nope, these guys are all about cutting back on those who have worked and paid their taxes, while on the other hand forking out to others who have not, as I only heard just the other day that 1/3 of the unemployed according to CentreLink are from the middle east, go figure 555

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

There is a huge advantage (depending on your income level)

to being taxed as a resident as opposed to a non-resident IMO.

I think that's what I said, or was trying to say, at least in my case.

[mfd101]

36 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

My accountant on the other hand advised me to become a non resident as the tax benefits out weighed remaining a resident, suffice to say I pay zero tax, apart from the 10% withholding tax in term deposits.

 

Had I the choice to remain an Australian resident for tax purposes and have the threshold for both myself and my wife, then it would be better in that I would have access to Medicare in case of an emergency, and of course I would able to contribute to Medicare as per the levy surcharge, be able to vote, and get the old age pension when I get to the ripe old age of 67,

I'm not sure but this seems to me to be mixing up different things. As is mentioned earlier in this thread, Being/Not being a resident is different from Being/Not being a resident for tax purposes. Eligibility/Non-eligibility for Medicare relates to the former; Paying/Not paying the Medicare Levy relates mostly to the latter.

 

On the entirely separate matter of Oz governments being tight on the rules for expats, the reason is that there has been a long history of relatively short-term Oz citizens [ie migrants] retiring to their original homeland and taking extremely generous Oz social welfare etc benefits with them. The longterm Oz citizens become expats unfortunately get wrapped up in the rules designed basically to put the squeeze on others less deserving (ie who haven't paid their lifelong dues).

[4MyEgo]

6 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I'm not sure but this seems to me to be mixing up different things. As is mentioned earlier in this thread, Being/Not being a resident is different from Being/Not being a resident for tax purposes. Eligibility/Non-eligibility for Medicare relates to the former; Paying/Not paying the Medicare Levy relates mostly to the latter.

 

On the entirely separate matter of Oz governments being tight on the rules for expats, the reason is that there has been a long history of relatively short-term Oz citizens [ie migrants] retiring to their original homeland and taking extremely generous Oz social welfare etc benefits with them. The longterm Oz citizens become expats unfortunately get wrapped up in the rules designed basically to put the squeeze on others less deserving (ie who haven't paid their lifelong dues).

Yes thanks for that, this was brought to my attention in another topic, rather unfortunate that governments would allow this, instead of a more stringent approach, i.e. if you work for a period of 25, 30, 35 years and pay your taxes, we will allow you to go with full benefits, but I have to let go of this as one cannot undo what cannot be undone, whats that saying, "no point in crying over spilt milk" 555 Just very un-Australian IMO 

Edited February 5, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

For who ever is out there and interested, I just returned from Oz as a foreign resident after being away for 18 months and claimed my heart away on Medicare, so the card is still working.

[opalred]

after working over  50yrs there and paying large taxes 

they cancelled mine 

saying after 2years away you are not a resident anymore 

and i believe if you are back there and need medical treatment

you pay or have to stay 2yrs to get treatment

[mfd101]

Deleted (already said earlier in the thread)

Edited May 14, 2017 by mfd101
Already said it all before in this thread

[ELVIS123456]

My understanding is that once you have left permanently (or tell them you are leaving permanently), then you become a non-resident for tax purposes, but you never lose your residency for CLink purposes such as Medicare etc. (unless you formally renounce residency/citizenship).

 

Certainly your medicare card can be cancelled or not renewed if you are overseas for an extended period (or going overseas to stay), but as soon as you return to Australia you can apply for a new Medicare Card and it is automatic (the card takes a week but you get a new number that day). You will then receive the normal free medical services and discounts on PBS as is provided to all residents/citizens. It is my belief that it is always a good idea to keep an address in Aust for medicare card renewals and many other reasons, some as per below.

 

However, you lose residency for tax purposes if you decide to live overseas from day one - yes it can be backdated.  Which means you are liable to pay income tax starting at 32.5 cents on every dollar you earned in Australia from that date. There are some exceptions (like Super Funds) but things like interest and rental income are taxed at 32.5 from the 1st dollar for all non-residents.  Some people have been caught out by this as the system is self-evaluated, and I know of one bloke that is back in Aust working off a $50K tax debt (he was audited - maybe dobbed in by Ex?). 

 

There is no hard and fast rule, but the 183 days is a good guideline for ATO to use, as is the lack of an address in Australia with associated driving licence, voting roll,  bank account/s, etc etc.  For anyone wanting to avoid being deemed a non-resident for tax purposes (before pension age) then I would recommend maintaining an Aust address and all the associated 'evidence' of being a resident (rent a room from relative/friend) and also make a return trip at least once a year.  As a tax resident of Aust there is no law preventing you from taking extended holidays overseas.

 

Once you receive the pension, then CLink uses the 183 days as their guideline to remove any additional payments and services (rent support etc.) but you never lose your residency and once you arrive back in Aust it is automatic.

 

ATO also uses the 183 days more readily if you are on a pension and living overseas, so if you are in this position (or soon to be), then you need to be aware of the tax implications and perhaps reorganize your financial arrangement if you are earning income in Aust that is taxable.

 

The Govt cannot decide to allow those who have worked/lived in Aust for 'X' number of years, the right to go overseas and stay there and then get the pension when they reach eligible age. This is because it would be discriminatory (30 or 35 or 40?), because it would breach their International Agreements on Social Security (under which the clampdowns started), and it would seen to be a extra cost and not a saving (political minefield). 

 

[4MyEgo]

On 2017-5-14 at 6:41 PM, opalred said:

after working over  50yrs there and paying large taxes 

they cancelled mine 

saying after 2years away you are not a resident anymore 

and i believe if you are back there and need medical treatment

you pay or have to stay 2yrs to get treatment

I heard if they cancel your card you can reapply but after 6 months, meaning you have to show them your lease, electricity bill, phone bill etc etc and pay slips if your working ?

 

Check it out on their website

[4MyEgo]

On 2017-5-17 at 11:23 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

but things like interest and rental income are taxed at 32.5 from the 1st dollar for all non-residents.  

All good Elvis123456, but interest earned from bank accounts is at 10%, i.e. withholding tax, you notify the lender/s that you will be residing overseas as a non-resident and you would like them to withhold the 10% withholding tax for the ATO and they do it for you automatically.

 

I have to be honest with you, all this hoo-haa about the pension and maintaining residency would in fact have a detrimental overall appeal to me, sure at first I was frustrated and angry, having a property which would be subject to 32.5c in the taxed and full capital gains tax, then I looked further into it, so to hold onto my residency for the $18,200 threshold, I would have to A,B,C,D,E,F&G to please the ATO, then I found the most brilliant loophole, that is, if I sold my property, they would get ZERO, so I gave them what they wanted.

 

After selling my property Vs giving them 32.5c in the $, plus full capital gains tax, I now invest in the ASX, i.e. stock market and pay no tax on what I earn, which is far more than I would be earning from rent under the Australian tax system if I was a resident.

 

The only downfall is going back to get the pension, i.e. 2 year jail term and then there is the asset test, suffice to say, I am a free man and my middle finger is pointed at them, at 60 in 3 years I will also take my super and pay ZERO $ in tax, this is one time the ATO cannot F with me, after all, its their legislation, so why not use it to your advantage.

 

Knowledge is power, a little reading here and there and I let go of the anger and frustration and started putting my plans into place and so far so bloody good when you convert the $'s into Thai living standards, your King 555

[simple1]

On 2017-6-7 at 5:20 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I heard if they cancel your card you can reapply but after 6 months, meaning you have to show them your lease, electricity bill, phone bill etc etc and pay slips if your working ?

 

Check it out on their website

Re-enrol for Medicare - requirements...

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/enrol-medicare

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

Re-enrol for Medicare - requirements...

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/enrol-medicare

Interesting read, bookmarked for future reference, thanks for that, so its more like 3-4 weeks as opposed to 6 months.

 

Copied and pasted: If you’re eligible, we’ll give you a Medicare number to use straight away. We’ll send your Medicare card to you in 3 to 4 weeks.