Trump's refugee order triggers protests across Australia

[simple1]

22 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Nevertheless, if you had been on the waiting list for several years and an illegal refugee took a house as soon as he set foot in Australia, how would you feel? It's very easy to be generous when there is no personal cost involved. Have a look what Australias refugee intake is a year before you mouth off. Perhaps sponsor a family to move in with you. Yeah right.

Living in the clouds if you believe monies potentially saved from reducing refugee intake would be allocated to the poorer communities in Oz. Those relocated to Oz and offered housing are not illegal refugees.

 

None of your business really, but I do support a few Thais, I can assure that's a real challenge to help out on the Age Pension and yes two poor families live on our land for free. When we lived in Pattaya we were able to be more generous in helping out.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by simple1

[Andaman Al]

31 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Why don't we just open our doors to the huddled masses? 

It's a good job someone opened the door's to their 'huddled masses' when they let your forefathers in.

[optad]

Just now, giddyup said:

Do you know what's been happening in Melbourne with the Somali gangs? Is it any wonder Australians are nervous about importing people from these cultures, and we only have to see the disasters that are happening in Sweden France and Germany due to refugees, why would we want to go down this same road? I hopefully won't be around to see the end results, but I'm sure there will be a lot of people asking"why didn't they see this coming"?

I hear you and will desist by saying I work in that coalface. It can be ugly, confronting and very sad at times and also unbelievably rewarding.  

 

Generationally challenged australians have rigid ideological frameworks and they find great hospice on thaivisa.  Almost all dump their heads into the ground offering zilch re constructive solutions. Thailand is an asylum from which some ran away from and now can preach about on the internet. Difficult circumstances require solutions not stereotypes. I can handle that in the footy forum not on bigger issues. 

 

[giddyup]

7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Living in the clouds if you believe monies potentially saved from reducing refugee intake would be allocated to the poorer communities in Oz. Those relocated to Oz and offered housing are not illegal refugees.

 

None of your business really, but I do support a few Thais, I can assure that's a real challenge to help out on the Age Pension and yes two poor families live on our land for free. When we lived in Pattaya we were able to be more generous in helping out.

 

Last reply to you.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

It's a good job someone opened the door's to their 'huddled masses' when they let your forefathers in.

They opened the door for themselves, and please don't start some unconnected debate about the displacement of the aborigines. Times change and so do people. Australia is taking 19,000 refugees a year, making it number 3 in the world for refugee intake.

Edited February 4, 2017 by giddyup

[The Dark Lord]

12 minutes ago, optad said:

As parents, we have simple obligations and singular focus. As nation states it get a bit messier with so many, and at times, conflicting obligations. Australia has signed a number of charters and international conventions which oblige us at times to be other than what another poster described as "unrepresentative". THe cost of democracy and being better. 

May I respectfully offer my five pennies worth?

 

having lived in the Middle East for many years I am acutely aware that integration is most definitely not on thei agenda.

 

So you (Australia) could well end up following most of those half baked countries in Europe with no go areas, a surge in crime etc leading ultimately ( due entirely to the reproductive practices of said refugees) with a country which has to give in and become subject partially or fully to shariah law. 

 

I know the do gooders will will accuse me of being a horrid  chap etc but unless and until such time as those who are supposedly in power take their heads out of the sand and smell the stink arising from the (currently) silent masses they are going to have a bit of a problem on their hands. 

 

Fire away haters but but one day I may be proven right. Problem is that by then it will be too late. 

[johnarth]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

it's illegal for an asylum seeker to try and enter Oz by sea, contrary to international law, but not if arriving by air on a tourist visa then apply for asylum - thousands do so every year.

yes same people with a little more brain, I did not add money because boat people start off with plenty of money.

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

May I respectfully offer my five pennies worth?

 

having lived in the Middle East for many years I am acutely aware that integration is most definitely not on thei agenda.

 

So you (Australia) could well end up following most of those half baked countries in Europe with no go areas, a surge in crime etc leading ultimately ( due entirely to the reproductive practices of said refugees) with a country which has to give in and become subject partially or fully to shariah law. 

 

I know the do gooders will will accuse me of being a horrid  chap etc but unless and until such time as those who are supposedly in power take their heads out of the sand and smell the stink arising from the (currently) silent masses they are going to have a bit of a problem on their hands. 

 

Fire away haters but but one day I may be proven right. Problem is that by then it will be too late. 

The problems have already begun http://newobserveronline.com/violent-africans-brawl-melbourne-sydney/

[giddyup]

31 minutes ago, optad said:

I never thought coherence was a skill but re reading my posts i wonder occasionally. Reading yours confirms my worst fears, it needs to be taught, acquired, practiced. Emotion does not alphabetise well.

 

I understand many Australians do not like changes to the demography they grew up amongst. But every generation has experienced this. Like America , Australia is an immigrant country, your parents or a generation before probably are too. Mine were. Most critics forget this small point. 

 

The conflation of muslims and refugees is really the ugliness in the topic because too much is hidden in the fear factor of what anglo australians do not know yet also fear. It is a shame because i think i could introduce you to many people and you would get along famously. Why? Because of the great values we share. THese should be positive stories.This simple little activity is true for so many who just have not experienced difference.

 

It's not an unfounded fear, surely you can see this. Or do you believe it's all whipped up by the media as some anti-muslim plot?

[optad]

1 minute ago, The Dark Lord said:

May I respectfully offer my five pennies worth?

 

having lived in the Middle East for many years I am acutely aware that integration is most definitely not on thei agenda.

 

So you (Australia) could well end up following most of those half baked countries in Europe with no go areas, a surge in crime etc leading ultimately ( due entirely to the reproductive practices of said refugees) with a country which has to give in and become subject partially or fully to shariah law. 

 

I know the do gooders will will accuse me of being a horrid  chap etc but unless and until such time as those who are supposedly in power take their heads out of the sand and smell the stink arising from the (currently) silent masses they are going to have a bit of a problem on their hands. 

 

Fire away haters but but one day I may be proven right. Problem is that by then it will be too late. 

 

I am a romantic but I never suggested that past times would continue in a demographic progression. All countries are headed into tricky immigration territory in our times.  I have complex views on multiculturalism. Integration is an age thing. If the arrivee is young enough, they will assimilate quickly. Essential for most it is about their children and they all integrate quickly. 'Assimilate' and 'integrate' are host ideas. If that offends some then perhap self assessment is required. It is a process.

 

We often do not have a lot choice re immigrants but Australia is on the thinner scope of the people movement era. Europe has take the brunt. I think this global phenomenon makes australia a poor litmus test but in so far as it is Aus, we have managed  our obligations and integration on learning curve. [What does that mean? Iraqis, Syrians have been terrific, Sudanese less supported and Somalis mixed. These are gross evaluations for TV readers only/ No TV reader really gives credit to the overall  mix of responses we do].

 

I am resolute that over time, we have excellent next generation Australians to love and do what we did. Possibly better!

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, optad said:

 

I am a romantic but I never suggested that past times would continue in a demographic progression. All countries are headed into tricky immigration territory in our times.  I have complex views on multiculturalism. Integration is an age thing. If the arrivee is young enough, they will assimilate quickly. Essential for most it is about their children and they all integrate quickly. 'Assimilate' and 'integrate' are host ideas. If that offends some then perhap self assessment is required. It is a process.

 

We often do not have a lot choice re immigrants but Australia is on the thinner scope of the people movement era. Europe has take the brunt. I think this global phenomenon makes australia a poor litmus test but in so far as it is Aus, we have managed  our obligations and integration on learning curve. [What does that mean? Iraqis, Syrians have been terrific, Sudanese less supported and Somalis mixed. These are gross evaluations for TV readers only/ No TV reader really gives credit to the overall  mix of responses we do].

 

I am resolute that over time, we have excellent next generation Australians to love and do what we did. Possibly better!

Group hug!

[optad]

14 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It's not an unfounded fear, surely you can see this. Or do you believe it's all whipped up by the media as some anti-muslim plot?

No, I do not exercise judgement on what i intimately do not know as a practice. The legal phrase is "well founded fear of persecution." and it takes special person,  to be able to project so confidently yes or no on those judgements. Can you giddyup?

~

Re media. I think things have changed and we are adapting slowly but no, I am not hysterical.

[Thaidream]

While I agree that younger refugees from the Islamic MIddle East and Africa will assimilate easier- I am more and more convinced that the majority do not assimilate well and it is because their cultural background is the antithesis of the Western lifestyle.  The problems we see in Sweden; Germany, France and other European Nations are real and evidence that assimilation is not working. These groups are a real danger to the status quo because they cannot find work and refuse to accept that they must adjust to their environment and not the reverse. 

America has had  better luck with assimilation and that is because of the diversity of America and its huge population and land space. In America it is difficult not to assimilate if you want to survive.

I do believe in the long run that these new 'refugees' will be happier within the confines of the Middle East where the culture is similar and they can find employment; marry ; and practice their religion as they see fit. Because of 9-11; the rise of ISIS and the radicalization of so many- the West is naturally skittish of refugees from the Islamic World. We have to remember- no Western Nation in recent history has attacked anyone in the Middle East and declared war on Islam. It is Islamic terrorist/radicals that are trying to spread their religion by the sword.

[optad]

33 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It's not an unfounded fear, surely you can see this. Or do you believe it's all whipped up by the media as some anti-muslim plot?

If in the bold above you are talking about you -  your own personal security..... I could respond in a number of ways. 

 

I collect my own navel fluff too from time to time but don't think too much about it.

 

As a remedial person, i only know how to react not construct.

 

I engage in the issues and seek solutions.

 

Whether you like what i am saying or not it is about dealing proactively with the issues not your feelings. 

 

[giddyup]

Just now, optad said:

If in the bold above you are talking about you -  your own personal security..... I could respond in a number of ways. 

 

I collect my own navel fluff too from time to time but don't think too much about it.

 

As a remedial person, i only know how to react not construct.

 

I engage in the issues and seek solutions.

 

Whether you like what i am saying or not it is about dealing proactively with the issues not your feelings. 

 

I think everything I said has been pretty clear, any further explanations would only involve me repeating myself. 

[optad]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I think everything I said has been pretty clear, any further explanations would only involve me repeating myself. 

Group hug/

[Andaman Al]

At the end of the day, any nation that gets involved in putting soldiers boots on the ground and invades sovereign territory must bear responsibility for the subsequent refugees. We hear on this thread about "why don't the Japanese take any refugees, they let in who they want - and that is hardly anyone". The simple fact is the Japanese do not get involved in any external conflicts. they do not contribute to causing the mess so they don't have to clean up. We will have this problem of displacement as long as we continue to stick our nose in. Almost all the trouble so far in the last 15 years has been for no other reason than lining the pockets of the owners of the huge multi-nationals that reap while the western Governments rape, the war on terror was just an excuse. When conflict stops so will the refugee issue, but the men who want more money will never let the conflict stop.

 

 

[JackThompson]

The important question not discussed in the article is, "Who is organizing these protests?"  Who are the primary financial contributors to these organizations?   Deep pockets are paying for the American protests.  Perhaps it is just typical college-activism in Australia, but I would not be surprised to find "Alliance for Global Justice" or a related, well-financed, organization involved. 

 

If anyone reading from Australia has a link to research exposing financial-networks behind this, please share.

[optad]

5 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

 When conflict stops so will the refugee issue, but the men who want more money will never let the conflict stop.

Agree re the responsibility to veterans as well as victims in conflict zones. Both of these parties tend to get diminished when war goes quiet and money gets hard to find. 

 

However the current movement of people is a different story. It is not solely about being a refugee but many disenfranchised peoples being 21st century literate and now ready for more. These developments are more about being literate on the internet and able to change better. Can not stop this.

 

Dangerous to over simplify this trend. It will not stop until better global futures are on offer.Knuckle down.

[Panda13]

My only question is, since when do a 1000 protesters represent the majority of what all Australians feel about any subject?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Australia is not anti-American.  It is anti-Trump and his lunacy.  Just like the rest of the world.

What is happening in the USA right now, is very similar to "color revolution" strategies carried out against many countries.  Deep pockets are paying for the American protests, and they have their reasons for spending that money.   It's "Colonialism 101" - the "divide and conquer," strategy - being applied to the high-standard-of-living nations, to bring about "global wage levels" for all.  I see Australia is not immune to this attack, given the attacks on its very effective illegal-immigration deterrents.

 

To increase the effectiveness of the well-financed attacks on Trump's Populist-Nationalism, applying pressure in foreign countries to weaken his "perception of legitimacy" would make perfect sense.  The message being, "See, everyone everywhere hates Trump.  You should too."  Foreign leaders would need to "keep a cool distance" to prevent being caught in the crossfire.  The "nightmare scenario" for those pushing globalism is for the spirit of self-preservation to spread among those whose standards of living have not (yet) been reduced to "maximum profitability" - aka "subsistence wages."

 

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

It's a good job someone opened the door's to their 'huddled masses' when they let your forefathers in.

You mean, in the case of the USA, when we had millions of unoccupied acres of land, farms were tilled by-hand and ox, and mechanization was 1/100 (or less) the worker-efficiency of today's production?  Automation is increasing. 

 

High-immigration levels into now-developed nations is an anachronistic idea - at least from the perspective of "citizen-benefit."

Edited February 4, 2017 by JackThompson

[optad]

Just now, Panda13 said:

My only question is, since when do a 1000 protesters represent the majority of what all Australians feel about any subject?

Who said they represent the majority/minority, if i may ask? And how do you know? Friends?

 

Second time this presumption is reticulated in this thread.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

3 hours ago, giddyup said:

The problems have already begun http://newobserveronline.com/violent-africans-brawl-melbourne-sydney/

 

There are many instances of Australian white males causing mayhem. I remember back in the 80's a riot in Glenelg, South Australia on New Years Day caused by drunken white Australian males. It was suppressed by police. I do not recall the newspapers reporting the racial background of the rioters. The papers just reported the criminality of individual's actions. Authorities should and do prosecute criminal activity irrespective of ethnicity of the individual. Why would a brawl involving black people be any different or any more significant than a brawl by white people?

 

Unless, of course people who don't like black people makes judgements based on stereotypes.

[katana]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

You really appear to have zero empathy - let me ask you if you were an Iranian suffering persecution for your faith. threats of death etc, e.g. Bahá'ís  would you want to stay in a refugee camp in Pakistan (potentially stuck for decades), no work, no education, poor medical care and so on or risk trying to get to a country of opportunity; I know what I would try to do rather than rotting in a camp in Pakistan without hope.

And how many have you taken in? Easy to be generous when it doesn't directly affect you.

[giddyup]

9 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

There are many instances of Australian white males causing mayhem. I remember back in the 80's a riot in Glenelg, South Australia on New Years Day caused by drunken white Australian males. It was suppressed by police. I do not recall the newspapers reporting the racial background of the rioters. The papers just reported the criminality of individual's actions. Authorities should and do prosecute criminal activity irrespective of ethnicity of the individual. Why would a brawl involving black people be any different or any more significant than a brawl by white people?

 

Unless, of course people who don't like black people makes judgements based on stereotypes.

Read the article unless you prefer making uninformed off-the-cuff remarks. The police have an ongoing problem with the Somalis in Melbourne, there has even been talk of deporting them back to Somalia because of the trouble they are causing. If you are tying to score some cheap points by playing the race card, you failed miserably.

[Panda13]

 
There are many instances of Australian white males causing mayhem. I remember back in the 80's a riot in Glenelg, South Australia on New Years Day caused by drunken white Australian males. It was suppressed by police. I do not recall the newspapers reporting the racial background of the rioters. The papers just reported the criminality of individual's actions. Authorities should and do prosecute criminal activity irrespective of ethnicity of the individual. Why would a brawl involving black people be any different or any more significant than a brawl by white people?
 
Unless, of course people who don't like black people makes judgements based on stereotypes.

I was there that night, there were 10,000, ( count them) 10,000 people involved in the riot.

[mogandave]

While on the surface it appears that America is taking Australia's problems into America. However, a closer look will show that Australia has agreed to base almost 3,000 US troops on its territory and  support the American effort to defeat ISIS. In addition, Australia and the US have a long history of friendship and co-operation and Australians have fought alongside the American military and spilled blood.
For me, as an American, there is no reason why the US should not help ou Australia in settling refugees. They will be properly vetted and the small number will not even be noticeable in a country with America's population. 
I don't kow exactly what Trump said to the Australian PM but if the reports are correct- Trump Was not diplomatic and terminated the call before other issues could be discussed. This not the way an Ally should be treated . Trump should apologize but of course he won't.
Trump was lucky he didn't get the average Australian who probably would have told him to F. Off and rightly so.
 

You don't know what he said but you know he should apologize...I'm guessing you think he should apologize for winning the election as well.

As far as "having" to base 3,000 US troops,that will be an economic boon for the local economy. Muslim refugees? Not so much.

[mogandave]

Like I said, generous benefits. Anyway, that door has been firmly closed unless you get in a queue like everyone else. BTW, refugees do go to the head of the queue when it comes to government housing, pushing past those who have been waiting years.

And they often go to the head of the line for government jobs as well.

[Trouble]

Don't see many of these muslim refugees flocking to other muslim countries.

[giddyup]

36 minutes ago, Panda13 said:

I was there that night, there were 10,000, ( count them) 10,000 people involved in the riot.

Did you count them?

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

Read the article unless you prefer making uninformed off-the-cuff remarks. The police have an ongoing problem with the Somalis in Melbourne, there has even been talk of deporting them back to Somalia because of the trouble they are causing. If you are tying to score some cheap points by playing the race card, you failed miserably.

 

Gangs in urban environments. Color me surprised.

 

Why highlight the Somali aspect and not the Pacific Islander aspect? Clearly your deck is replete with race cards. Anti-immigration freaks are all about race. No points to be earned for such blatant and obvious conclusions.

 

Following is how your source describes itself:

 

The New Observer is a free and independent news service designed to present current affairs without the spin of the controlled media.

http://newobserveronline.com/about-us/

 

So now we understand your perspective. You can shove your gambling metaphors. Just another scaremonger, anti-immigrant blowhard.